In-depth RTX demonstration on Battlefield V

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, S w a t s o n said:

In the video they do say the memory footprint scales with the raytracing resoultion and they are looking to optimize for various vram capacities so i'm not sure how that plays out, but the upside is that screen space was only 50% of resolution and RTX is 100% at least by default, like I said DICE is looking into scalable RT resolution

Well, output resolution increasing VRAM usage is a given. But I mean ray tracing doesn't sound like it needs to store a bunch of intermediate values to work. Unlike a viewport reflection method, you have to store a bunch of intermediate results before the final composing.

[S w a t s o n]

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Well, output resolution increasing VRAM usage is a given. But I mean ray tracing doesn't sound like it needs to store a bunch of intermediate values to work. Unlike a viewport reflection method, you have to store a bunch of intermediate results before the final composing.

True but it sounds a bit more complex than just sheer resolution as the size of BVH changes from scene, so we might at least see much more variable vram usage depending on whats on screen

[descendency]

That is literally, by far, the most realistic lighting. Every other game I've ever seen and most (real time) tech demos have this weird glow that makes the surfaces in the game look plastic like even if they are supposed to be metal, wood, cloth, flesh, or something else. That lighting is just jaw dropping.

 

This is the kind of tech that makes it fun to go explore a game - because the game isn't optimized to push you towards other players (to shoot at them). 

[Dylanc1500]

It would be awesome when/if the Spyro Reignited comes to pc it would have full RTX support.

 

Hey, Nvidia, if you are listening. Make this happen with Toys for Bob and I will personally buy a couple 2080Ti's just for these games.

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, S w a t s o n said:

In the video they do say the memory footprint scales with the raytracing resoultion and they are looking to optimize for various vram capacities so i'm not sure how that plays out, but the upside is that screen space was only 50% of resolution and RTX is 100% at least by default, like I said DICE is looking into scalable RT resolution

honestly just watched the video and it looks to me like they already have a ton of ideas to improve performance. it is interesting that they said they hadn't even started using the rt cores when they started developing the ray tracing. it sounds like they had more or less been utilizing the direct x implementation. if this is true I wonder if that means that AMD should be able to implement the ray tracing on their gpus as it wasn't designed originally to even use the dedicated hardware the rtx series has.

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

honestly just watched the video and it looks to me like they already have a ton of ideas to improve performance. it is interesting that they said they hadn't even started using the rt cores when they started developing the ray tracing. it sounds like they had more or less been utilizing the direct x implementation. if this is true I wonder if that means that AMD should be able to implement the ray tracing on their gpus as it wasn't designed originally to even use the dedicated hardware the rtx series has.

It's probably one of those things where there are only so many ways to do it and they all overlap so closely  it's easy to adapt.  Given they have this demo, have been working on it for a while already and there are 10 other titles already supporting,  it really seems to be rather generic.

 

EDIT: either that or Nvidia have been working with game devs in secret for the last year or two. (which is not entirely impossible)

[S w a t s o n]

14 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

honestly just watched the video and it looks to me like they already have a ton of ideas to improve performance. it is interesting that they said they hadn't even started using the rt cores when they started developing the ray tracing. it sounds like they had more or less been utilizing the direct x implementation. if this is true I wonder if that means that AMD should be able to implement the ray tracing on their gpus as it wasn't designed originally to even use the dedicated hardware the rtx series has.

 

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It's probably one of those things where there are only so many ways to do it and they all overlap so closely  it's easy to adapt.  Given they have this demo, have been working on it for a while already and there are 10 other titles already supporting,  it really seems to be rather generic.

 

EDIT: either that or Nvidia have been working with game devs in secret for the last year or two. (which is not entirely impossible)

They used the original implementation of RTX that only supported tensor cores, so they have been working on it for awhile

[Brooksie359]

Just now, mr moose said:

It's probably one of those things where there are only so many ways to do it and they all overlap so closely  it's easy to adapt.  Given they have this demo, have been working on it for a while already and there are 10 other titles already supporting,  it really seems to be rather generic.

yeah I think we will see ray-tracing form AMD not too far into the future. I just wonder if it is viable to run ray-tracing on current hardware at less intense settings. I do think if anyone can figure out a way to run ray-tracing well its dice. their engine had allowed them to create visually stunning games that run really well on a large range of hardware. if there engine ends up finding ways to use ray-tracing well then it will transfer over to a good amount of EA games as most of them use the frostbite engine.

[S w a t s o n]

Just now, Brooksie359 said:

yeah I think we will see ray-tracing form AMD not too far into the future. I just wonder if it is viable to run ray-tracing on current hardware at less intense settings. I do think if anyone can figure out a way to run ray-tracing well its dice. their engine had allowed them to create visually stunning games that run really well on a large range of hardware. if there engine ends up finding ways to use ray-tracing well then it will transfer over to a good amount of EA games as most of them use the frostbite engine.

It will not be viable to run this on anything other than Volta or newer because even this basic demo required tensor cores to ray trace

[S w a t s o n]

As far as the calculations go it should not be possible to brute force even this level of raytracing, AMD is probably going to incorporate machine learning just like Nvidia did with tensor cores. We're like an entire magnitude of compute power away from just bruteforcing it

[mr moose]

21 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

yeah I think we will see ray-tracing form AMD not too far into the future. I just wonder if it is viable to run ray-tracing on current hardware at less intense settings. I do think if anyone can figure out a way to run ray-tracing well its dice. their engine had allowed them to create visually stunning games that run really well on a large range of hardware. if there engine ends up finding ways to use ray-tracing well then it will transfer over to a good amount of EA games as most of them use the frostbite engine.

I think it will happen too,  It's going to be one of those technologies that doesn't technically require specific hardware, but if you don't have it you can basically kiss the experience goodbye.  Like trying to run crysis on 2003 onboard GPU's, you can probably do it but you won't enjoy the experience.

[PlayStation 2]

We're here. We're at the future of game graphics.

To be honest, though, I'm not surprised that it's ray-tracing that's the future. We've been trying for more realistic and more cinematic ever since we got our hands on hardware capable of rendering 3D objects properly and getting closer to the CGI of films is basically the goal here.

[S w a t s o n]

2 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

We're here. We're at the future of game graphics.

To be honest, though, I'm not surprised that it's ray-tracing that's the future. We've been trying for more realistic and more cinematic ever since we got our hands on hardware capable of rendering 3D objects properly and getting closer to the CGI of films is basically the goal here.

Earlier today I watched a siggraph talk from Nvidia, they said this is basically equal to the raytracing used for A Bug's Life but real time

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, S w a t s o n said:

Earlier today I watched a siggraph talk from Nvidia, they said this is basically equal to the raytracing used for A Bug's Life but real time

It wouldn't even surprise me if the ray-tracing done here is something like that in an equivalent sense. Obviously, in a graphical sense, it definitely looks better than that film, then again that was a 1998 film with a big ass render farm compared to a 2018 game on a single GPU.

[S w a t s o n]

6 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

It wouldn't even surprise me if the ray-tracing done here is something like that in an equivalent sense. Obviously, in a graphical sense, it definitely looks better than that film, then again that was a 1998 film with a big ass render farm compared to a 2018 game on a single GPU.

A render farm doing a frame every so often, vs real-time on a single GPU. I thought it was a strange comparison too but they are talking about the ray+rasterize technology rather than asset quality.

 

Edit: Looking at some screenshots though, those models were pretty high poly, I think the art style actually makes them look worse than they would in a realistic art style

[PlayStation 2]

1 minute ago, S w a t s o n said:

A render farm doing a frame every so often, vs real-time on a single GPU. I thought it was a strange comparison too but they are talking about the ray+rasterize technology rather than asset quality

Ah yeah. That would make more sense in context. I mean, yeah. It is hella impressive that we can do with a single GPU what a multi-million dollar big ass render farm that needed a warehouse to even be ran in did back then.

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Ah yeah. That would make more sense in context. I mean, yeah. It is hella impressive that we can do with a single GPU what a multi-million dollar big ass render farm that needed a warehouse to even be ran in did back then.

This is what one teraflop looked like in 1997:

 

11 years later it looked like this:

 

:B

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

This is what one teraflop looked like in 1997:

 

11 years later it looked like this:

 

:B

Hell, in 2012 it looked like a 7770.

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Hell, in 2012 it looked like a 7770.

And now it looks like this:

A graphics card we say "wtf don't buy that unless you're desperate"

[S w a t s o n]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

And now it looks like this:

A graphics card we say "wtf don't buy that unless you're desperate"

Or 1/11th of a 1080ti, say just the IO bracket

[D13H4RD]

This looks much more optimistic for the RTX.

 

But I'll probably wait for Turing's successor. By that time, we'd probably have more ray-traced titles and Turing's successor should be able to do real-time ray-tracing in a far more fluent and efficient manner. It's honestly quite exciting for the future of computer graphics although not something I really need as of now.

Quote

When you die and your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?

Avram, you can kindly sod off.

[ScratchCat]

Damn it team! Stop staring at the ray tracing effects and take the damn objective!

 

The cases where ray tracing will provide an advantage are infrequent at best. How many times are you going to see an enemy close enough to be visible in a reflection, currently behind cover as not to be visible by normal means, at an angle to be visible in a reflection on an object in the right position?

 

If ray tracing is introduced into off the shelf engines like Unreal we could see a more drastic benefit for smaller games with less advanced lighting and lower resolution textures. Ray tracing would add proportionally more to these games as well as running better than the AAA games.

[Rune]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that DICE only had the rtx 2080ti for 2 weeks before the original presentation, so I'll wager it'll be a fair bit faster when the game actually comes out regardless.

[S w a t s o n]

5 hours ago, Rune said:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that DICE only had the rtx 2080ti for 2 weeks before the original presentation, so I'll wager it'll be a fair bit faster when the game actually comes out regardless.

Yes this is confirmed in the video, they are using a 2080 for the demo but it's running a build that only uses tensor core RTX and CPU for raytracing. They say the RT cores are not being used at all yet

[jasonvp]

6 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

Yes this is confirmed in the video, they are using a 2080 for the demo but it's running a build that only uses tensor core RTX and CPU for raytracing. They say the RT cores are not being used at all yet

They also just announced a month delay in the game's release to 20 November.  This may give them more time do polish up the engine.