(Updated) AMD Navi GPU to Offer GTX 1080 Class Performance at ~$250 Report Claims

[DanielMDA]

1 minute ago, Trixanity said:

This little shit:

 

However some would have you believe it's these people:

 

Just messing with you. It's a star. Also known as Gamma Cassiopeiae.

Thanks , also, anything special about this Star?

[DanielMDA]

3 minutes ago, Jack_of_all_Trades said:

 

Its very fucking bright.

Its apparently a binary system too, and since Navi will most likely be Multi Die, this signifies it.

[Dylanc1500]

8 minutes ago, DanielMDA said:

Its apparently a binary system too, and since Navi will most likely be Multi Die, this signifies it.

Ya it's also coming to the end of its life as it is in the sub-giant (class IV) stage of becoming a giant star signifying that it's hydrogen supply is exhausting. So it is going to get big, hot, then implode in on itself.

 

hopefully that doesn't become true for their cards.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, Razor01 said:

They will gladly sell the same price 1060 vs a 580 any day, because of the power consumption and cooling needs of a 580.  We are looking at same performance cards but at a cost to these companies.  They need beefier power supplies and coolers, the same ones that a gtx 1070 or 1080 if we are talking about overclocked variants will need!

The high end RX580's and GTX 1060's use the same coolers and the power difference has zero effect on requiring a lager power supply, it's not high enough difference (45W) and there is no way a system integrator is going to increase their costs by dual sourcing two different power supplies for the same product segment.

 

https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/ROG-STRIX-RX580-O8G-GAMING/

https://www.asus.com/us/ROG-Republic-Of-Gamers/ROG-STRIX-GTX1060-O6G-GAMING/

 

Total system power draw for both is below 400W.

[AresKrieger]

As many have said it's funny it would put the card squarely where the 480/580 is right now as good as Nvidia's 80 series card 1 gen too late, but I'm not surprised as it is quite clear AMD cut a lot of Radeon's R&D budget and this is likely why some of their more notable employees are looking to work elsewhere. Even funnier than that I honestly don't believe them even though in 2019 this will be a somewhat modest accomplishment at best.

[Razor01]

28 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The high end RX580's and GTX 1060's use the same coolers and the power difference has zero effect on requiring a lager power supply, it's not high enough difference (45W) and there is no way a system integrator is going to increase their costs by dual sourcing two different power supplies for the same product segment.

 

https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/ROG-STRIX-RX580-O8G-GAMING/

https://www.asus.com/us/ROG-Republic-Of-Gamers/ROG-STRIX-GTX1060-O6G-GAMING/

 

Total system power draw for both is below 400W.

 

Over clocked variants the 1060 gets to 130 watts max, the 580 can go up to as high as 180 watts.  We have seen some even go past that too.  Actually it starts off higher than the 1070 out of the box at 165 watts.

 

Cooler might look the same the fins and heat sinks can be different.  50 watt power difference at least.

 

You might want to check dell with their alienware systems rx580 they put the wattage of the rx580 in brackets, they are trying to tell consumers it uses more power.

 

Why are they saying this, because they are using a beefier PSU with those models the same PSU they use with the 1070 models.  And the cooling fan is larger from what I understand for the case for the higher end Aurora's, I'm not sure about the fans though.

 

AMD Radeon™ RX 580 (150W) with 8GB GDDR5

 

This is exactly what they have on their Alienware Aurora systems.

 

When HP had rx580 for sale in their systems oh 3 months back they were telling to upgrade the power supply if that was selected, they were charging the user for the selection lol.

 

[leadeater]

14 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Cooler might look the same the fins and heat sinks can be different.  50 watt power difference at least.

No they are the same, it's a very high end cooler and is the same one used on the 1080.

 

15 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Over clocked variants the 1060 gets to 130 watts max, the 580 can go up to as high as 180 watts.  We have seen some even go past that too.  Actually it starts off higher than the 1070 out of the box at 165 watts.

Total system draw is 20W higher for the RX 580 over the 1070 FE.

 

18 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

When HP had rx580 for sale in their systems oh 3 months back they were telling to upgrade the power supply if that was selected, they were charging the user for the selection lol.

HP advise that on every system that upgrades the GPU from base spec or from iGPU to a dGPU. The Dell system with an RX 580 in it comes with the base 460W PSU, there isn't a model with one lower than that in the desktop range of systems that have an RX 580 as an option. Lenovo similar story, 450W PSU though they don't have a system with an RX 580 only 480 (out of stock), RX 570 or Nvidia options.

 

HP is legendary for using highly custom power supplies and very low output rates by default, they even use custom connectors just for the extra icing on the cake of annoyance (for their SFF desktops).

 

28 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Cooler might look the same the fins and heat sinks can be different.  50 watt power difference at least.

Which is not enough to require a PSU upgrade unless you're HP, reason above.

[Razor01]

12 minutes ago, leadeater said:

No they are the same, it's a very high end cooler and is the same one used on the 1080.

 

Total system draw is 20W higher for the RX 580 over the 1070 FE.

 

HP advise that on every system that upgrades the GPU from base spec or from iGPU to a dGPU. The Dell system with an RX 580 in it comes with the base 460W PSU, there isn't a model with one lower than that in the desktop range of systems that have an RX 580 as an option. Lenovo similar story, 450W PSU though they don't have a system with an RX 580 only 480 (out of stock), RX 570 or Nvidia options.

 

HP is legendary for using highly custom power supplies and very low output rates by default, they even use custom connectors just for the extra icing on the cake of annoyance (for their SFF desktops).

 

Which is not enough to require a PSU upgrade unless you're HP, reason above.

I don't know what review you are looking at but overclocked rx580 were much higher than 150 watts man

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/RX_580_Nitro_Plus/28.html

 

 

 

 

 

I have 6 rx580 in my last AMD mining rig, at stock they all consume 165 watts each or so power.  Even after modding them, undervolting and power limiting, they only go down to 110 watts per card.  I can put the rx480 bios on them which will get them to go to 90 watts or so, but I'm not brave enough, if there were any slight changes to the ISA, it might brick the cards, so I didn't want to take the chance.

[Godlygamer23]

12 hours ago, cj09beira said:

in terms of die sizes yes it is, thats probably what he means

In terms of the consumer stack-up, I don't think it's a mid-range card. It's still on the high end. 

[leadeater]

12 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

I don't know what review you are looking at but overclocked rx580 were much higher than 150 watts man

It really doesn't matter which one you look at, some of those OC RX 580 are pushed way hard though, but either way even the most highly pushed power hungry variants don't put system power draw above 400W so unless you're HP that loves using 250W to 300W PSUs an RX 580 will never force a PSU upgrade over a 1060 system. It's just not a thing for custom gaming system integrators and self builders, or Dell or Lenovo.

[Razor01]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

It really doesn't matter which one you look at, some of those OC RX 580 are pushed way hard though, but either way even the most highly pushed power hungry variants don't put system power draw above 400W so unless you're HP that loves using 250W to 300W PSUs an RX 580 will never force a PSU upgrade over a 1060 system. It's just not a thing for custom gaming system integrators and self builders, or Dell or Lenovo.

 

 

err some of those were 32 mhz higher lol.

 

and no I have never seen HP use less than 500 watt power supplies for their gaming systems. Even Dell if its a gaming system they don't go less than 500 watts.

 

I bought an HP one three years ago for my niece with a 970 they asked me to upgrade the PSU to a 650 watt because of the CPU and the card I put in there too (6700k).

 

Add as I stated I have reference rx580's (6 of them) here 165 watts the lowest they go at stock settings.  These are reference coolers, MSI cards.

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

and no I have never seen HP use less than 500 watt power supplies for their gaming systems. Even Dell if its a gaming system they don't go less than 500 watts.

Dell Inspiron gaming use 460W. Lenovo use 450W.

 

Edit:

This isn't about how much which particular card uses etc, you said using an RX 580 over a 1060 requires a PSU upgrade which isn't the case.

[Razor01]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Dell Inspiron gaming use 460W. Lenovo use 450W.

The Inspiron 5675 sold with three PSU options =
300w, 460w, 850w

What is confusing to me is that we only sell the AMD Ryzen CPU systems with the 850w PSU. So how did Best Buy get one with a 460w PSU? That doesn't make sense. If you want to run dual Dual AMD Radeon RX580, you should install the Dell 850w PSU, part number N1WJD or 48Y6D. Call Dell Spare Parts 1-800-357-3355 and ask for price and availability of the Dell part number. Dell cannot speak to non-tested retail PSU.

 

 

This is from a dell manager.

 

Ryzen systems are the only ones that come with a rx 580 option.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

The Inspiron 5675 sold with three PSU options =
300w, 460w, 850w

What is confusing to me is that we only sell the AMD Ryzen CPU systems with the 850w PSU. So how did Best Buy get one with a 460w PSU? That doesn't make sense. If you want to run dual Dual AMD Radeon RX580, you should install the Dell 850w PSU, part number N1WJD or 48Y6D. Call Dell Spare Parts 1-800-357-3355 and ask for price and availability of the Dell part number. Dell cannot speak to non-tested retail PSU.

 

 

This is from a dell manager.

 

Ryzen systems are the only ones that come with a rx 580 option.

It's the same thing for online purchases, if you pick one with an RX 580 it has a 460W PSU in it and so does the i5 + 1060. Also can I just say how infuriating Dell's website is to get that information, you have to add the system to your cart and go almost all the way through the purchase process to get the full specs link. Do better Dell please.

 

Ryzen System:

Quote

Chassis Options

Chassis with EPA 460W with lighting Air Cooling 95W Summit Ridge

Inspiron Gaming Desktop 5675

 

Intel System:

Quote

Chassis Options

460W with Air Cooling, Polar Blue LED lighting, and Tray load Slim ODD DVD

Inspiron Gaming Desktop 5680

[M.A.P]

14 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

1080 performance for $250 is a good deal. No other way to slice this if it’s real. Though I doubt it is, this same hype was around the RX 480. 

It might be as I mentioned the competition will still be like rx480/580 vs gtx 1060 

[JediFragger]

If AMD are touting 1080 performance then I'd expect 1070ish level, that way you won't be too disappointed when it arrives

[Valentyn]

51 minutes ago, JediFragger said:

If AMD are touting 1080 performance then I'd expect 1070ish level, that way you won't be too disappointed when it arrives

That’s what I do with them now. Knock em down a small level and you’re grand. 

 

Hopefully 7nm from GloFo delivers. 

[asus killer]

11 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

As many have said it's funny it would put the card squarely where the 480/580 is right now as good as Nvidia's 80 series card 1 gen too late, but I'm not surprised as it is quite clear AMD cut a lot of Radeon's R&D budget and this is likely why some of their more notable employees are looking to work elsewhere. Even funnier than that I honestly don't believe them even though in 2019 this will be a somewhat modest accomplishment at best.

apart from the budget issue you mentioned we have the alliance with Intel in GPU's and the news that Intel wants to get into the GPU market and stole some employees from AMD. Maybe preparing to leave the GPU market and concentrate on the CPU side of things?

[GangstaRas]

Why Ryzen doing so well? They completely destroyed Intel's crap lineup both in performance and price. So unless AMD does the same thing in GPUs, become that no brainer option no matter how biased a fanboy might look at it, then long story short, they'll still struggle.

 

1080 performance at 250 USD isn't exciting to me, it's at best an expected change (as the 1060 jump was from the 960). The card's been out for years now so no excuse. Stagnation in the market doesn't make it any greater, we're backwards. 

 

What would be more damaging for the market is if they did these GPUs in such a fashion where its so cheap to produce, you can give the 1080 performance at 150 USD by next year and still profit but we ain't there yet, and GPU market harder to manipulate like that. The only thing left they can do is first NVIDIA on some necessity in games, like how video recording and FreeSync answered a need. What does the average gamer need right now? Built-in HDMI input to capture video with the GPU?

[AresKrieger]

53 minutes ago, asus killer said:

apart from the budget issue you mentioned we have the alliance with Intel in GPU's and the news that Intel wants to get into the GPU market and stole some employees from AMD. Maybe preparing to leave the GPU market and concentrate on the CPU side of things?

I mean it is possible they have little interest in the GPU market in terms of being top dog, it could be that they intend to make money off their GPU side via licensing and small form factor/integrated solutions, either way they seem to be changing approach somewhat on the business side it could be Navi was already designed when these decisions were made and they will shift focus after it comes out. Who knows AMD could simply be realizing they are stuck for now and trying to focus on what seems more long term beneficial while attempting to fill the coffers a little, or they could be on the same course with a realization Intel could be a means to knock Nvidia a peg or two down.

[AlTech]

22 hours ago, leadeater said:

snip

The GP104 is a mid range Graphics Chip though. Frankly at this point, the GTX 1070 and 1080 are mid range. The only truly High End Nvidia consumer GPU this generation is the GTX 1080TI.

 

Also btw with regard to "Enthusiast" cards, that isn't really a product segment imho because Enthusiasts buy the product that meets their wants or needs. That doesn't necessarily limit them to Titan X or Titan Xp.

 

And the only current Nvidia Consumer GPU i'd consider truly Enthusiast class (if we go with your definition of Enthusiast segment) is the $3000 Nvidia Titan V.

 

The GTX 1060 is a budget card and is massively overpriced.

The GTX 1050 is a very low end card and is also massively overpriced.

The GT 1030 is a joke and tbh nobody should be buying it.

 

And to prove I'm not an AMD fanboy as some think I am, I will confess that I think the RX 580 and RX 480 were overpriced.at MSRP The RX 460 and RX 470 and their RX 500 series equivalents were also overpricd at MSRP.

 

AMD however needs the money a lot more badly than Nvidia does. Neither AMD nor Nvidia are truly innovating at the moment.

 

My expectations for the GTX 11/20 Series are as follow:

GT 1130/2030 should be at least on par with GTX 1050Ti.

GTX 1150/2050 should be at least on par with GTX 1060

GTX 1150Ti/2050Ti should be at least on par with GTX 1070

GTX 1160/2060 should be at least on par with GTX 1080.

GTX 1170/2070 should be at least on par  with GTX 1080Ti.

GTX 1180/2080 should be at least 30% faster than 1080Ti.

GTX 1180Ti/2080Ti should be at least 50% faster than 1080Ti.

 

I am ready to be dissapointed because as much as this needs to happen, it probably won't because Nvidia has no reason to compete because their fanboys buy anything with their logo on it.

 

My expectations for the RX 600 Series (or whatever succeeds Polaris in the Mainstream) are as follow:

RX 650 should be at least on par with RX 460

RX 660 should be at least on par with RX 480

RX 670 should be at least on par with RX Vega 56

RX 680 should be at least on par with RX Vega 64

Vega 56 successor should be at least on par with GTX 1080Ti.

Vega 64 successor should be at least 30% faster than GTX 1080Ti.

[leadeater]

25 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The GP104 is a mid range Graphics Chip though. Frankly at this point, the GTX 1070 and 1080 are mid range. The only truly High End Nvidia consumer GPU this generation is the GTX 1080TI.

I don't see why only one GPU can be in the high end category like that, high end is a segment not a label for the fastest card.

 

25 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The GT 1030 is a joke and tbh nobody should be buying it.

Exactly why it is low end.

 

25 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The GTX 1050 is a very low end card and is also massively overpriced.

Gaming glasses off the 1050 is a strong low range card that is more than powerful for any task including video editing.

 

That's the thing, your looking at it from a more enthusiast PC gaming stance rather than simply looking at the product stack on offer by Nvidia, you can't just discount the 1030 like that because it's a bad gaming GPU.

 

25 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

And the only current Nvidia Consumer GPU i'd consider truly Enthusiast class (if we go with your definition of Enthusiast segment) is the $3000 Nvidia Titan V.

Titan V is not that either, it's a professional card no longer in the GeForce lineup. The Quadro P6000 at the time wasn't considered enthusiast either even though core configuration it's the same as a Titan Xp.

[JediFragger]

29 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Who knows AMD could simply be realizing they are stuck for now and trying to focus on what seems more long term beneficial while attempting to fill the coffers a little

Focusing on the low/medium level would make a whole heap of sense for AMD imo, stay where the volume is.

[AlTech]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I don't see why only one GPU can be in the high end category like that, high end is a segment not a label for the fastest card.

Well yeah, I just don't feel that any card below it is truly High End. The Titan Xp is High End as well.

Quote

Exactly why it is low end.

 

Gaming glasses off the 1050 is a strong mid range card that is more than powerful for any task including video editing.

It's a Gaming graphics cards. If it's supposed to be a strong non gaming card then Nvidia should just call it the GT 1050 or even GeForce 1050 .

Quote

That's the thing, your looking at it from a more enthusiast PC gaming stance rather than simply looking at the product stack on offer by Nvidia, you can't just discount the 1030 like that because it's a bad gaming GPU.

It's a bad GPU in general, not just for gaming. And GeForce is Nvidia's Gaming brand. They should just make a new brand of non gaming graphics cards and move the GT 1030 and GTX 1050 to that brand so that their gaming lineup is reflected properly.

Quote

The Quadro P6000 at the time wasn't considered enthusiast either even though core configuration it's the same as a Titan Xp.

I don't consider the Titan Xp to be in your "Enthusiast" segment.

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I don't consider the Titan Xp to be in your "Enthusiast" segment.

It's not my segment. In actual fact Titan was never intended for gaming at all anyway, consumers just usurped it's purpose because Nvidia kept withholding the fully unlocked dies from the standard GTX lineup. So rather than waiting the people with the money just brought the Titans.

 

Simplest solution is to just ignore their existence, I know I do heh.