Corsair/Asus(ROG) Build, 1st Timer

[madscientist56]

So I do plan on going with two more gpu's, and full custom loop including memory and vrm.

The 750d has space for a good custom loop if you really want to go with the 900 go for it but if you don't fill it up with a lot of rads its gonna look empty, look at Linus's latest liquid cooling guide he does a build in a 900d and talks at the end about how you really have to fill the case up for it to look good.

[Osmium]

Never mind. 

[paulsterio]

I did want to go with the formula, but as I posted:

 

1) I wanted more PCIE

2) I plan on doing a custom(I think XS-PC) VRM water cooling block.

3) I wanted the OC Panel for my optical bay. I have all my bays mapped out and want to use all of them.

 

Thanks for the vote of personal choice though. I like hearing these even when I have, as I said, "my own biased" layout for this build.

 

I think that if you want more PCI-E lanes you should go with LGA2011 instead. 

 

I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, this is how much your setup is going to cost:

 

Maximus VI Extreme - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=138_1491&products_id=23630 - $499

Intel Core i7 4770K - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=187_1490&products_id=23497 - $399

 

You could go with the 4820K on LGA2011, which where I live, costs:

 

Rampage IV Extreme - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=138_1299&products_id=20014 - $559

Intel Core i7 4820K - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=187_1298&products_id=24965 - $379

 

So the totals actually work out to be so close together. You'll be able to find all the custom waterblocks for VRM and chipset cooling on the Rampage IV Extreme and to be honest, I think that you'll get a much better experience on LGA2011. You get more PCI-E lanes and all of them are native, so it doesn't rely on PLX or other "exotic" measures to work. You get more RAM slots and a more "overclockable" CPU. 

 

The 4820K will run cooler than the 4770K (due to it having a soldered IHS rather than one with TIM in the middle), so you will be able to get higher overclocks and you could even potentially move up to a 4930K if you wanted. 

 

If you're spending this much money, I personally think that you should be going LGA2011 anyway, it's just a better platform than Intel's "consumer" one, so that's a pathway to look into as well, but I really, really recommend it. 

[Pez510831]

The 750d has space for a good custom loop if you really want to go with the 900 go for it but if you don't fill it up with a lot of rads its gonna look empty, look at Linus's latest liquid cooling guide he does a build in a 900d and talks at the end about how you really have to fill the case up for it to look good.

To be honest it looks good anyways. But yes, AS SAID BEFORE, I plan on putting a lot more in. Read above on one of my multiple late replies.

I think that if you want more PCI-E lanes you should go with LGA2011 instead.

I'm not sure about where you live, but where I live, this is how much your setup is going to cost:

Maximus VI Extreme - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=138_1491&products_id=23630 - $499
Intel Core i7 4770K - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=187_1490&products_id=23497 - $399

You could go with the 4820K on LGA2011, which where I live, costs:

Rampage IV Extreme - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=138_1299&products_id=20014 - $559
Intel Core i7 4820K - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=187_1298&products_id=24965 - $379

So the totals actually work out to be so close together. You'll be able to find all the custom waterblocks for VRM and chipset cooling on the Rampage IV Extreme and to be honest, I think that you'll get a much better experience on LGA2011. You get more PCI-E lanes and all of them are native, so it doesn't rely on PLX or other "exotic" measures to work. You get more RAM slots and a more "overclockable" CPU.

The 4820K will run cooler than the 4770K (due to it having a soldered IHS rather than one with TIM in the middle), so you will be able to get higher overclocks and you could even potentially move up to a 4930K if you wanted.

If you're spending this much money, I personally think that you should be going LGA2011 anyway, it's just a better platform than Intel's "consumer" one, so that's a pathway to look into as well, but I really, really recommend it.

So I bought my mobo at $399 and my CPU at $339. And that was at local computer store which was more expensive than Neweggs Black Friday deals and regular prices to be real. I feel bad that you either don't have the resources to find better pricing whether it be location or just ability to search correctly. Good luck on your next part orders. Maybe you can start a thread asking people who live around you how they buy their parts.

As for heat, your right, but if I can get 4.6Ghz at 90C on stress tests, with a h100i, I'm not to concerned. With more exotic cooling, which I plan on getting, everything is fine.

I was thinking about an Haswell-E or x99 board when it releases and selling my mobo and CPU together. The reason I didn't go x79 was because I didn't want to spend $1000 on the top processor right now. The 4770k is top for Haswell. That's what this build is. A top of the line Haswell build. Some parts are going to be upgraded while most wont.

When I wanted more PCIE, I meant more than the Formula.
 

[paulsterio]

So I bought my mobo at $399 and my CPU at $339. And that was at local computer store which was more expensive than Neweggs Black Friday deals and regular prices to be real. I feel bad that you either don't have the resources to find better pricing whether it be location or just ability to search correctly. Good luck on your next part orders. Maybe you can start a thread asking people who live around you how they buy their parts.

 

As for heat, your right, but if I can get 4.6Ghz at 90C on stress tests, with a h100i, I'm not to concerned. With more exotic cooling, which I plan on getting, everything is fine.

 

I was thinking about an Haswell-E or x99 board when it releases and selling my mobo and CPU together. The reason I didn't go x79 was because I didn't want to spend $1000 on the top processor right now. The 4770k is top for Haswell. That's what this build is. A top of the line Haswell build. Some parts are going to be upgraded while most wont.

 

When I wanted more PCIE, I meant more than the Formula.

 

How do you feel bad that I don't have the resources to find better pricing? I live in Australia and you have to factor in that the exchange rate from USD to AUD is around $0.85 or thereabouts, meaning that your $399 USD motherboard becomes $470 AUD and here, we have a 10% tax on all goods and services, meaning that it will become $516, which is actually worse than the price I gave. So I think you're mistaken here, these are actually around about the best prices I can get in Australia. The whole world doesn't live in the US you know! 

 

Either way, my point still stands, regardless of where you live, you will be better off with a 4820K and a Rampage IV Extreme. 

 

To be honest, you're nuts if you're buying the 4960X when the 4930K is essentially the same chip. So if you go with X79, you go with the 4820K if you want 4 cores and the 4930K if you want 6 cores.

 

Yes, I know you want more than the Formula, but you have to remember that Haswell only supports 8x, 8x, 8x natively and the fourth slot is provided by a PLX chip, which is how you're able to get 16x, 8x, 8x, 8x on the PCI-E lanes. This won't be as stable as going with LGA2011 and getting the PCI-E lanes natively. It's a better solution and LGA2011 is designed for people like you who need more PCI-E lanes and people who need more cores. 

 

 

I swore I saw a post in my email this morning that said the VRM is integrated into the CPU!? Who was that and can they remove their post? Or did one of just edit?

 

Sorry, just thought that was hella funny!

 

How is that "hella funny"?

 

It is actually true, with Haswell, the VRM is integrated onto the CPU, which is what intel calls FIVR. With Ivy Bridge, there were five "input voltages" into the CPU, namely the VCore, and the voltages for the onboard graphics, system agent, IO and PLL. WIth Haswell, this has been "simplified" so that the motherboard only requires one voltage regulator, the input VR, whilt the actual VRM is located on-die. The benefit of that is reduced voltage ripple and higher efficiency, however, it makes the processor produce more heat, which is why Haswell is known to be hotter than previous architectures, such as Ivy Bridge. 

[brob]

Also, never done much picture uploading, my pics are about 6mb. I need to get them done to 2mb it says. Any recommendations?

As mentioned, one can upload them to a picture storage site and use links. Or, open the picture and resize it. Windows Live Photo Gallery | Edit File Organize.

. . .

Either way, my point still stands, regardless of where you live, you will be better off with a 4820K and a Rampage IV Extreme.

To be honest, you're nuts if you're buying the 4960X when the 4930K is essentially the same chip. So if you go with X79, you go with the 4820K if you want 4 cores and the 4930K if you want 6 cores.

Yes, I know you want more than the Formula, but you have to remember that Haswell only supports 8x, 8x, 8x natively and the fourth slot is provided by a PLX chip, which is how you're able to get 16x, 8x, 8x, 8x on the PCI-E lanes. This won't be as stable as going with LGA2011 and getting the PCI-E lanes natively. It's a better solution and LGA2011 is designed for people like you who need more PCI-E lanes and people who need more cores.

. . .

An i7-4470K handily outperforms an i7-4820K in most benchmarks. It seems to me that the loss in cpu performance doesn't justify the marginal improvement in real world PCIe performance. If one is going to X79 the i7-4930K I would suggest is the minimum one should look at.

[paulsterio]

An i7-4470K handily outperforms an i7-4820K in most benchmarks. It seems to me that the loss in cpu performance doesn't justify the marginal improvement in real world PCIe performance. If one is going to X79 the i7-4930K I would suggest is the minimum one should look at.

 

This isn't true. A 4820K is faster than a 3770K, higher clock speeds, same IPC (same architecture). A 3770K is only 10% or even less slower than a 4770K, thus a 4820K is actually less than 10% slower than a 4770K. 

 

You're missing the point of my suggestion though, I said right from the start that a 4820K will overclock better due to it having a soldered IHS rather than a TIM in between. It also has a larger die (more surface area = more area for heat dissipation and to transfer heat to the heatsink), thus, you will be able to gain back that difference and get it to perform even better due to it overclocking higher. Even if not better, it will easily overclock to a level which will be the same as a 4770K. 

[brob]

This isn't true. A 4820K is faster than a 3770K, higher clock speeds, same IPC (same architecture). A 3770K is only 10% or even less slower than a 4770K, thus a 4820K is actually less than 10% slower than a 4770K. 

 

You're missing the point of my suggestion though, I said right from the start that a 4820K will overclock better due to it having a soldered IHS rather than a TIM in between. It also has a larger die (more surface area = more area for heat dissipation and to transfer heat to the heatsink), thus, you will be able to gain back that difference and get it to perform even better due to it overclocking higher. Even if not better, it will easily overclock to a level which will be the same as a 4770K. 

 

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63119-intel-i7-4930k-i7-4820k-ivy-bridge-e-review.html

 

As to the overclocking argument. Both chips overclock. Which overclocks better is entirely down to luck of the draw. True, a 4820K might overclock better than a 4770K, but clock for clock the 4770K is more powerful than the 4820K. And if the particular 4820K one gets is not a good overclocker, one is worse off than simply buying a 4770K.Gamble if you want, but I don't think it makes a convincing argument.

[paulsterio]

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/63119-intel-i7-4930k-i7-4820k-ivy-bridge-e-review.html

 

As to the overclocking argument. Both chips overclock. Which overclocks better is entirely down to luck of the draw. True, a 4820K might overclock better than a 4770K, but clock for clock the 4770K is more powerful than the 4820K. And if the particular 4820K one gets is not a good overclocker, one is worse off than simply buying a 4770K.Gamble if you want, but I don't think it makes a convincing argument.

 

Yes, but in the article you linked the 4770K only outperforms the 4820K by like 5 - 6% or even less in some tests. 

 

In fact, the article you linked actually supports what I was saying in the beginning. 

 

 

Ever since Ivy Bridge-E’s day one reviews, everyone has been talking about the i7-4820K versus i7-4770K battle. Which one should someone buy? That really depends on how you approach the perspective of value in higher end CPUs. On one hand the 4820K can (at least in our tests) theoretically overclock to a higher level, costs $10 less, is granted huge memory bandwidth from its quad channel layout and uses a platform that includes two full speed x16 PCI-E 3.0 slots. However, the i7-4770K has its own set of strengths like lower power consumption, IPC enhancements that provide a significantly better out-of-box experience and motherboards that feature native support for the latest connectivity technologies rather than using a mish-mash of third party controllers. 

 

So, while it may be tied at the hip to a slightly inferior platform from a connectivity standpoint and looses to an i7-4770K in a bone stock comparison, we’d recommend the i7-4820K for gamers who want to build a new system around a solid, adaptable and overclockable core.

[brob]

Yes, but in the article you linked the 4770K only outperforms the 4820K by like 5 - 6% or even less in some tests. 

 

In fact, the article you linked actually supports what I was saying in the beginning. 

 

 

 

 

 

And I gave my reasons why I disagree with the opinion. Basing a recommendation on the overclocking of single examples of each chip, especially when all the benchmark data that same article presents suggests that chip is a poorer performer at stock seems very wrong headed to me. Especially since the difference in clock for clock power between Haswell and Ivy Bridge was not taken into account.

 

5% better performance on a platform that cost less seems to me an obvious choice all other things being equal.

[paulsterio]

And I gave my reasons why I disagree with the opinion. Basing a recommendation on the overclocking of single examples of each chip, especially when all the benchmark data that same article presents suggests that chip is a poorer performer at stock seems very wrong headed to me. Especially since the difference in clock for clock power between Haswell and Ivy Bridge was not taken into account.

 

5% better performance on a platform that cost less seems to me an obvious choice all other things being equal.

 

5% is nothing though, like it won't even be 5% in the real world. 

 

On top of that the 4820K is $20 cheaper than the 4770K, so that goes some way to reimbursing you with going X79 rather than Z87. 

 

Either way, it's not really a "more expensive" platform, look up the prices for the Maximus IV Extreme and the Rampage IV Extreme, it won't be any sort of noticeable difference, it might even work out to be $20 or $30 after considering that the 4820K is cheaper. 

 

It's not the overclocking of single examples of each chip. The 4820K will overclock better than the 4770K because of its soldered IHS. That is a fact, not an opinion or a sample of one particular chip. 

 

Yes, you might get a bad 4820K, but you can also get a bad 4770K. At the end of the day though, when we say bad, we're not talking about a massive difference. We're not competitive overclockers using LN2, so even with the worst chips, it'll still overclock a reasonable amount. I've never seen a chip since Sandy Bridge (2600K, 3770K, 4770K, 4820K...etc.) that has not hit 4.20 GHz with ease on the right cooler. Yes, some will require higher voltages, but it's not unachievable.

 

The "silicon lottery" is played out to be more than it actually is. At the moment, there isn't any specific statistical analysis you can do because there's no database of overclocks and chips that's large enough and unbiased. However, you need to remember that the 5% IPC improvement (it's between 5% and 10%, but closer to 5% in real world benchmarks), is the same as a 5% increase in clock speed. 

 

Thus, a 4770K at 4.50 GHz will perform the same as a 4820K at 4.70 GHz, like you have to realise that isn't a massive difference to overclock away. 

 

However, for this particular use case scenario, X79 is a better platform. I'm not saying that it is in all cases, however in this specific case it is. The user requires more PCIe lanes, which is one of the main benefits of going with X79. Why the OP wants 4-way SLI/CF I don't know (I think it's a bad idea), but if he wants that, then the best way to get that is on X79 which supports those PCIe lanes natively without having to rely on a PLX chip. The stability of native support for 8x, 8x, 8x, 8x is enough for me to recommend X79 even if there is a 5% performance hit on the CPU. 

[Richard Burton]

So I bought my mobo at $399 and my CPU at $339. And that was at local computer store which was more expensive than Neweggs Black Friday deals and regular prices to be real. I feel bad that you either don't have the resources to find better pricing whether it be location or just ability to search correctly. Good luck on your next part orders. Maybe you can start a thread asking people who live around you how they buy their parts.

 

As for heat, your right, but if I can get 4.6Ghz at 90C on stress tests, with a h100i, I'm not to concerned. With more exotic cooling, which I plan on getting, everything is fine.

 

I was thinking about an Haswell-E or x99 board when it releases and selling my mobo and CPU together. The reason I didn't go x79 was because I didn't want to spend $1000 on the top processor right now. The 4770k is top for Haswell. That's what this build is. A top of the line Haswell build. Some parts are going to be upgraded while most wont.

 

When I wanted more PCIE, I meant more than the Formula.

90 degrees at 4.6 even at full load isn't too healthy, what voltage are you at? My 4770K does 4.7 at 1.19 Volts and with my swifttech h220 i rarely break 60 degrees under heavy load

[paulsterio]

90 degrees at 4.6 even at full load isn't too healthy, what voltage are you at? My 4770K does 4.7 at 1.19 Volts and with my swifttech h220 i rarely break 60 degrees under heavy load

 

Delidded?

[Pez510831]

How do you feel bad that I don't have the resources to find better pricing? I live in Australia and you have to factor in that the exchange rate from USD to AUD is around $0.85 or thereabouts, meaning that your $399 USD motherboard becomes $470 AUD and here, we have a 10% tax on all goods and services, meaning that it will become $516, which is actually worse than the price I gave. So I think you're mistaken here, these are actually around about the best prices I can get in Australia. The whole world doesn't live in the US you know! 

 

Either way, my point still stands, regardless of where you live, you will be better off with a 4820K and a Rampage IV Extreme. 

 

To be honest, you're nuts if you're buying the 4960X when the 4930K is essentially the same chip. So if you go with X79, you go with the 4820K if you want 4 cores and the 4930K if you want 6 cores.

 

Yes, I know you want more than the Formula, but you have to remember that Haswell only supports 8x, 8x, 8x natively and the fourth slot is provided by a PLX chip, which is how you're able to get 16x, 8x, 8x, 8x on the PCI-E lanes. This won't be as stable as going with LGA2011 and getting the PCI-E lanes natively. It's a better solution and LGA2011 is designed for people like you who need more PCI-E lanes and people who need more cores. 

 

 

 

How is that "hella funny"?

 

It is actually true, with Haswell, the VRM is integrated onto the CPU, which is what intel calls FIVR. With Ivy Bridge, there were five "input voltages" into the CPU, namely the VCore, and the voltages for the onboard graphics, system agent, IO and PLL. WIth Haswell, this has been "simplified" so that the motherboard only requires one voltage regulator, the input VR, whilt the actual VRM is located on-die. The benefit of that is reduced voltage ripple and higher efficiency, however, it makes the processor produce more heat, which is why Haswell is known to be hotter than previous architectures, such as Ivy Bridge. 

 

Your very right, I will put apology in edit. I was very tired. I meant the mosfets. And what I trying to say was, I'm sorry you have to pay such large premiums. I didn't know why, that's why I said whether it was your knowledge of where to buy or location.

[paulsterio]

Your very right, I will put apology in edit. I was very tired. I meant the mosfets. And what I trying to say was, I'm sorry you have to pay such large premiums. I didn't know why, that's why I said whether it was your knowledge of where to buy or location.

 

No worries, was just trying to clarify and stuff. 

 

And yeah, even though it seems like a bigger number, it's cause AUD is worth less than USD, so after factoring in exchange rates, I'm paying about the same amount as you are. 

[Pez510831]

90 degrees at 4.6 even at full load isn't too healthy, what voltage are you at? My 4770K does 4.7 at 1.19 Volts and with my swifttech h220 i rarely break 60 degrees under heavy load

 

Like I said before, I'm a total noob. The Haswell platform is great for guys like me trying to learn, as far as I have learned(correct me if wrong). If you have some tips for me or a good link, let me know. I followed JJ's OC video for my platform. He said to start at 4.4 with 1.200V and move up in V at .025 increments until stable. Thats what I did. Also, whats your memory speed with those settings?

[Pez510831]

No worries, was just trying to clarify and stuff. 

 

And yeah, even though it seems like a bigger number, it's cause AUD is worth less than USD, so after factoring in exchange rates, I'm paying about the same amount as you are. 

 Oh, OK. You should fill in you location on profile so I can know your not in US.

[Pez510831]

Ok......Long awaited. Note the wiring is in mock-up and all parts are going to be removed soon. I've changed things since then and will put newer pics up soon.

[Osmium]

Ok......Long awaited. Note the wiring is in mock-up and all parts are going to be removed soon. I've changed things since then and will put newer pics up soon.

 

I notice lots of empty space, still don't believe us about the 900D

 

No but seriously it will look good once all the sables are sorted.

[Jimstah87]

Uhhhh your build seems a tad over kill, 

1) If you're just gaming, you don't need an i7, an i5 is better/cheaper

2)Your MB (IMO) is a silly, get something better bang for buck

3) Your PSU is way over kill, you don't need a Platinum PSU, period. 

4) Get lower frequency RAM for cheaper, the performance difference between high frequency and low frequency is minimal

5) The headset you got, the Tiamat is horrible, there is no way that a tiny 7.1 system will sound good, heck, no freaking way till will it beat my ATH-M50's in terms of sound quality and it will get stomped by my XBA-4's 

 

Disclaimer: this is purely my opinion and thus not fact nor will it represent what others think. 

Just let the person be happy with what they bought and let them enjoy building they're system. You expect them to return everything and get what you mentioned? No, they wont, so if you have nothing nice to say be quiet and let them enjoy. Everyone learns from experience first hand.

[Jimstah87]

That's a beast of a computer mate!

[LifesCompanion]

Just let the person be happy with what they bought and let them enjoy building they're system. You expect them to return everything and get what you mentioned? No, they wont, so if you have nothing nice to say be quiet and let them enjoy. Everyone learns from experience first hand.

Hence the "Disclaimer: this is purely my opinion and thus not fact nor will it represent what others think." 

[paulsterio]

Like I said before, I'm a total noob. The Haswell platform is great for guys like me trying to learn, as far as I have learned(correct me if wrong). If you have some tips for me or a good link, let me know. I followed JJ's OC video for my platform. He said to start at 4.4 with 1.200V and move up in V at .025 increments until stable. Thats what I did. Also, whats your memory speed with those settings?

 

 

Overclocking isn't really fun any more these days cause all you do is bump up the multiplier and the voltages. 

 

Back in the Nehalem days and even before that overclocking meant you had to take into account not only the frequency and the voltages, but also the memory clock, timings, sub-timings and also the memory voltage, QPI link speed and other things as well, so overclocking these days is dead easy. 

 

But yeah, that's one way to go about it, start at a clock you want and bump up the voltage until you get stable. Alternatively, you can also push up the voltage to a level you're comfortable with and get a clock that is stable at that voltage and then go back and drop the voltage a little. 

[Pez510831]

I notice lots of empty space, still don't believe us about the 900D

 

No but seriously it will look good once all the sables are sorted.

As I said before, Got plans for a lot of that space. Also, part of the reason I wanted such a big case, was the ease of working hands on inside. There's no fumbling around, twisting and squeezing parts into place or extra time figuring how your gonna fit the wires in the back without bowing, etc. I really want to move the cables, but every time I think about doing it, I just want to break it down and get the sleeving and powder coating done first.

[Pez510831]

Overclocking isn't really fun any more these days cause all you do is bump up the multiplier and the voltages. 

 

Back in the Nehalem days and even before that overclocking meant you had to take into account not only the frequency and the voltages, but also the memory clock, timings, sub-timings and also the memory voltage, QPI link speed and other things as well, so overclocking these days is dead easy. 

 

But yeah, that's one way to go about it, start at a clock you want and bump up the voltage until you get stable. Alternatively, you can also push up the voltage to a level you're comfortable with and get a clock that is stable at that voltage and then go back and drop the voltage a little. 

 I was thinking about actually tuning my PC for lowest V and moving up the multiplier from there. I think I got a mediocre chip. 4.6Ghz(4 cores) at .128V is a high voltage, and at 85C needs more exotic cooling for me to feel comfortable. I heard If you can hit 4.6Ghz your in the top 30%(silicon lottery), but with my high V, I believe that brings me down a little.