Please show some more love for linux :)

[LtStaffel]

17 minutes ago, Jade said:

Maybe it will when users don't have to spend hours to get functionalities that are extremely trivial to get on Windows. I'd be happy to switch if it wasn't hours of trying to make certain things work as intended.

What things?

Ubuntu is an easier and faster install process than Windows

[Jade]

Just now, LtStaffel said:

What things?

Pretty much anything that requires special drivers. I'm sure your answer will be "just don't buy shitty hardware" but most people aren't going to think "Oh, will this work in Linux?" before buying something if they're not already a Linux user.

Notable examples:

• Many wifi cards have issues with actually functioning... like to the point where there's lists of known "good" wifi cards that's actively maintained for Linux. In both Arch and Ubuntu, I had a Realtek RTL8192AE (? not sure where I put it, but I believe that was the model) that would connect to Wifi, but it performed extremely poorly (10-20% of Windows'?) and inconsistently (in the same environment) compared to itself in Windows. On top of that, if it stopped working, you'd have to restart the laptop unload/load the drivers. The solutions, according to the internet? Install these drivers from some random guy's website/github with these commands that aren't particularly clear (and offer no support if you get an error).
• No official drivers for a lot of things - one that directly affects me is controlling the pump speeds of Corsair/NZXT liquid coolers. Insignificant to average users but certainly an issue if you want enthusiasts to switch to it for market share to grow.
  • The whole "use the search, asshole" mentality around a lot of community projects are abrasive and not even always a solution - sure this general question has been answered, but someone's getting a different error. Don't tell them to go look at the other one that won't even necessarily answer their question, then get upset when they necro/bump the thread they were told to go look at.
• Per Wikipedia: Application support, the quality of peripheral support, and end user support were at one time seen as the biggest obstacles to desktop Linux adoption. According to a 2006 survey by The Linux Foundation, these factors were seen as a "major obstacle" for 56%, 49%, and 33% of respondents respectively at that time.

17 minutes ago, LtStaffel said:

Ubuntu is an easier and faster install process than Windows

For you. Subjective. I use Linux on my work laptop and while I do agree, Windows' installation would be far less daunting for say, your grandparents.

[LtStaffel]

Just now, Jade said:

-snip to save a pixel-

Actually I understand all of those issues (meaning I acknowledge they are issues). Those are real issues, and I have had my own share of them. Perhaps I just have more interest in making it work than other people do (I've solved quite a few bugs/errors that not even stackoverflow could touch). However, Linux gets unfairly bashed (no pun intended) on for many things that it shouldn't. It has much better performance and support for things that flat out just don't exist in Windows. I'm pretty tech savvy, but the pain I went through just to get MinGW64 on Windows was a nightmare! For pete sake, there were so many links I had to go through to get it, and then so much to get it set up and working, and the environment was still shaky. Linux has GCC out of the box in most cases, and it also has apt-get. Why do I have to Google just to install a program on Windows? For many things though, especially with what OP I believe was aiming at, Linux would clearly be a better choice than Windows. I do not think LTT should bother trying to show off Linux because that has been done by so many other people. But for those who are savvy and want to know what they are doing, Linux is clearly a better choice. I am of the opinion that people should have at least some clue what they are doing on their computer; they should at least know how to build one.

 

TL;DR I said "maybe that should change" because I have a personal opinion that thinks everyone should know more about tech than they currently do on average.

[dmaes]

For the people complaining about how hard Arch/Gentoo is to setup: The first time I installed Arch, it took me a few hours. The second time, install time was 90% waiting for packages to download. So take the time to try it out in a vm, afterwards it goes faster than installing Windows.

 

For the people complaining about hardware not working under Linux: it's the hardware manufacturers to blame that they don't want to work together with the Linux community.

So buy your hardware for the software you want to run and not vice-versa (GPU: Intel has always been nice to Linux, AMD became nice too; Network: use intel or realtek, avoid broadcom; peripherals: don't excpect RGB drivers etc. to work, manufacturers are to shortsighted to support Linux). Here is a nice blogpost from one of the developpers of sway: https://sircmpwn.github.io/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html

I have to admit: sometime things that should be supported, don't work. But in the cases I encountered it, it was new software not working because of outdated packages on ubuntu but without problems on Arch, or server stuff crashing on Arch but shining on Ubuntu. So choose the right distro for your usecase.

 

For those complaining about documentation and help you get from the commutnity: Documentation is in my experience far better than Windows (The arch-wiki is great, and you can use it for most distros), the time's I had to go to forums, I never saw the 'use google' answer without first scrolling throug 5 decent answers. But also don't excpect people to be nice and friendly if you're asking a question that half the Linux-userbase has asked before you and you can fix with the top 5 results on Google/DuckDuckGo.

 

For those saying that resource use under Windows 10 isn't much more than under Linux: my boottime on Arch is 75% bios, on Windows it is 25% bios (bios taking the same time on both systems). For login time: by the time Windows verified my password and started loading programs, Arch is ready to rock with me even having to manually start X/sway. In short: by the time Windows is ready to open firefox, I'm logged in on the LTT forum using arch (and I have to manually copy my password...)

 

Now to add something more positive sounding: Linux is great, and half the Linux users I know, went to Linux because of problems with Windows

[MysticalGnome]

I have been using Linux for many years now at home and on the job, and I don't see any reason to ever go back to Windows as my main OS. Sure it has it's issues but for the most part it does what is has to do. Problem solving usually does require some basic knowhow and a masters degree in googling which can be frustrating for non techies especially when the terminal comes in to play.

[Sauron]

On 11/12/2017 at 11:33 PM, LiamNPRG said:

I really like your channel, but it is pretty annoying to constantly watch you resort to everything using windows(especially 10). For example, your "Windows 9" video would have been really great if you rolled your own desktop, or used XFCE themes to do the same(like this one here https://www.xfce-look.org/content/show.php/Windows흏鎅?content=173834). Your newest video(as of this post) was about GPU mining, and it also makes no sense whatsoever to use windows instead of a stripped down distro like arch or gentoo(heck even ubuntu) due to the lesser requirements of the OS, and minimal Microsoft™ Overhead™. For gaming however, it would be fair to say that windows has better support for games, and I totally understand the usage there, as well as for the fact that windows 10 is what most people watching your channel are probably using.

 

All I really ask is that you show one of the fastest growing oses some more respect for how far it has come in the last decade. Thank you for making content, and have a nice day

 

PS: you could probably just do some benchmarks in some easy to install linux distro just for kicks.

The thing is, almost none of LMG's staff know enough about Linux to do a video using, say, Gentoo (Luke has hinted at some knowledge in the field but I don't know how much he actually knows, and of course even with high levels of knowledge making interesting content with it is another matter entirely). If you look at when they have used some sort of Linux distribution, in the past, you'll see that most of it has been with commercial solutions like Unraid where someone could come in and help them set it up, or at least guide them through the process on the phone, with a somewhat plug-and-play interface to begin with. Linux centric videos require some expertise and are a significant time sink if you don't know where to look. Since projects like the mining rig are more about the hardware than the software, they just go with what they know so they can showcase it quickly and meet their daily release schedule.

 

On top of that, can you IMAGINE the flood of comments under every video saying they should use a "real" distro, a different DE or a different driver that needs to be compiled with the blood of your firstborn to work? For a hardware centric channel such as LTT I think sticking to windows is not a big problem, especially considering much of the bleeding edge hardware they get would probably cause issues with less common operating systems.

[Dat Guy]

Let's all suggest one "Please show more love for <obscure niche OS which sucks>"!

[SkyLinx]

On 13/11/2017 at 12:36 AM, Sack said:

If you're interested in this kind of stuff you should check out level1tech, he's a super knowledgeable tech guy that does a lot of Linux content.

Nice channel!

[SkyLinx]

On 13/11/2017 at 12:45 AM, Enderman said:

No, only about 2% of people actually care about linux and go through all the trouble of using it.

Windows 10 barely uses any resources anyway so it's not like you get an improvement from using linux for mining.

What trouble? These days Linux isn't more difficult to use than either Windows or MacOS. It's just a bit different, but I don't see all this "trouble". Only thing is games, I wish more people were using it so that would be less of a problem.

[Enderman]

2 hours ago, SkyLinx said:

What trouble? These days Linux isn't more difficult to use than either Windows or MacOS. It's just a bit different, but I don't see all this "trouble". Only thing is games, I wish more people were using it so that would be less of a problem.

Haha, that's a funny joke  just ask anyone who's used linux.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

23 hours ago, Enderman said:

just ask anyone who's used linux.

Okay, regular Linux user here.  I've been running Mint on my work laptop (a Samsung NP900-X4D that originally came with Win7) for around 3 years now and have been dual booting the main PC for close to 2 years. 

 

 

On the laptop I didn't have to install a single driver, even the special function keys (for adjusting brightness, keyboard backlight, toggling the Wifi and trackpad etc) worked just fine out of the box.  Compare that to the 1.3GB of drivers for Win7 (bluetooth, chipset, GFX, Intel Rapid Start & Rapid Storage & Management Engine, LAN & WLAN drivers, Samsung software for the function keys, touchpad drivers, USB 3.0 driver).

 

Our network printers (a HP CM1312 and an OKI 432) were also detected right away and are fully supported, including duplex printing and on the OKI even displaying the remaining toner level (a function which my colleagues don't even have on their Win10 machines with OKI's own drivers).

 

 

Similar story with the home PC.  The install was a lot faster, didn't need almost 2GB of drivers like Windows does, didn't need to download and install updates for hours on end either. 

Granted, I did have to use the terminal on that one to sort out a screen tearing issue when playing movies in full-screen mode, but that was caused by bad settings in the Nvidia driver which for some reason can't be adjusted in Nvidia's control panel.  That's entirely Nvidia's fault, I can't blame Linux for that really. 

 

As for games, I don't have a large library but almost all of them have native Linux support.  So that's not really a problem.

I will admit that I had a gut feeling about Win10 as soon as they first announced it, so for the past 3 years I've tried to avoid buying Windows-only games.

In fact the only game that's really keeping my main PC mostly on Windows is GTA Online, but that's quickly becoming one huge mess and getting worse with every update.  So it's only a matter of time before I simply remove GTA from my Steam library and wipe the windows SSD. 

 

[SkyLinx]

On 23/11/2017 at 8:13 PM, Enderman said:

Haha, that's a funny joke  just ask anyone who's used linux.

I use Linux... I haven't used Windows in perhaps 15 years...

[Ashleyyyy]

linus mentioned it in one of those "double your internet speed for cheap" clickbait video's. he was like 'the drivers for these cards only work on linux, but we won't show you because the majority of our audience runs Windows'.. and i was like i run linux on my servers and pc's, please tell me.. 

[MysticalGnome]

On 11/23/2017 at 7:13 PM, Enderman said:

Haha, that's a funny joke  just ask anyone who's used linux.

My grandmother who is 80 years old use Linux Mint on her laptop, plenty of my friends use it too so...

 

If Linux does not meet your specific requirements that's fine there are plenty of people who just browse the internet, watch YouTube and play a game on Facebook and for these people it works just fine. And for those who do IT work are also far better off with Linux, if you need Windows for something sandbox it in a VM and run your application.

 

Also in general if people want to complain for all of eternity about lack of support for Microsoft Office or some Adobe program they ripped of some torrent website maybe they should direct there complaints towards Microsoft and Adobe for not at least supporting Redhat and Debian

[dmaes]

On 11/23/2017 at 7:13 PM, Enderman said:

Haha, that's a funny joke  just ask anyone who's used linux.

Windows gave me more headaches than Arch...

[Filthyscum]

1 hour ago, 101dmrs said:

Windows gave me more headaches than Arch...

I like how it's easier to fix something wrong with Arch than Windows..

That wiki they have is just so goddamn good