Ryzen over Coffee?

[PartyWire]

Hej, i just got a Quest to build a custom PC. The hardest choice is the CPU, I don't know if to go with the Ryzen or the New Coffee lake CPUs... The Price difference is around 100 euros, (i5-8600K - 265€, Ryzen 1700X - 383€).

I The Pc will be mainly for Gaming, but some times some Work.

[Polakki]

I5 8600k

[Eduard the weeb]

2 minutes ago, PartyWire said:

Hej, i just got a Quest to build a custom PC. The hardest choice is the CPU, I don't know if to go with the Ryzen or the New Coffee lake CPUs... The Price difference is around 100 euros, (i5-8600K - 265€, Ryzen 1700X - 383€).

I The Pc will be mainly for Gaming, but some times some Work.

mobo will be more expensive most likely but coffee lake is better for gaming I am sticking with ryzen due to doing a lot of editing.

So unless they are an editor doing work or streaming go with I5 8600K

[EPPHO]

Include price of the morherboards + cooler for Intel CPU.

[ARikozuM]

8600K, some fast RAM, and an air cooler. Most 8600K chips are getting 5.0GHz easily without delids and on air coolers. 

[light-v]

In terms of raw gaming performance, Coffee Lake. Ryzen for the extra threads (if going for Ryzen 7) or the cheaper overall price and long term support (while Intel is probably gonna kill the platform in a gen or two)

[just_dave]

11 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

8600K, some fast RAM, and an air cooler. Most 8600K chips are getting 5.0GHz easily without delids and on air coolers. 

Define the air cooler that cooled 8600K at 5.0

I think it was at least Cryorig R1 or NH-U14S, probably more massive than that.

[mariushm]

If you get Ryzen 1700 (without x), it will come with a decent cooler in the package. It will be very good for stock frequencies and even good enough for overclocking to 3.8..3.9ghz. Intel CPU comes without cooler, so you'll need a 35-50$ cooler for it.

Motherboards are also cheaper, unless you need SLI, you can go with B350 chipset motherboards and you can get solid boards for 75-90$ ... the 8th series motherboards which would work with 8600k start from 120$ and these cheap 120$ ones are really barebones (few usb 3 ports, few extras)

 

So there's potential to save around 30$ on the motherboard, and another 25-50$ on the cpu cooler.

 

The intel configuration will still be faster in SOME games, but you'll benefit from having 8 real cores and 16 threads in other applications. Depending on your budget, you may be better off moving these savings into buying a faster video card.

[MyName13]

Do you have a 60 Hz monitor?In that case any would be more than enough RIGHT NOW, in the future i5 might be better (even for 60 Hz) once games get more demanding because of better IPC and higher clock rates.

[just_dave]

1 minute ago, mariushm said:

Motherboards are also cheaper, unless you need SLI, you can go with B350 chipset motherboards and you can get solid boards for 75-90$

*Rest of my brain cells got killed*

[ARikozuM]

8 minutes ago, dave_k said:

Define the air cooler that cooled 8600K at 5.0

I think it was at least Cryorig R1 or NH-U14S, probably more massive than that.

Most users cooled the chip with Cryorig H7 and be quiet! Dark Rocks. 

[just_dave]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

Most users cooled the chip with Cryorig H7 and be quiet! Dark Rocks. 

Dark rock is a massive chunk of aluminium

H7 seems like bs to me.

What were the temps?

Were they "good" or "good enough to not throttle"

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, dave_k said:

Dark rock is a massive chunk of aluminium

H7 seems like bs to me.

What were the temps?

Were they "good" or "good enough to not throttle"

I didn't see any over 90C, I don't have an average to give you. 

[just_dave]

5 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

I didn't see any over 90C, I don't have an average to give you. 

i would consider 90°C "good enough to not throttle"

It is far from a good temp.

70°C would be fine.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, dave_k said:

i would consider 90°C "good enough to not throttle"

It is far from a good temp.

70°C would be fine.

Good temps are subjective at best. For you 70C is good, but for me 85C is good. These overclocks are still being accomplished on air rather than water which is a boon for those who want a 5.0GHz+ chip. @MageTank might know more for the temps people are seeing. 

[just_dave]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Good temps are subjective at best. For you 70C is good, but for me 85C is good. These overclocks are still being accomplished on air rather than water which is a boon for those who want a 5.0GHz+ chip. @MageTank might know more for the temps people are seeing. 

Yeah, 8600K should be fine with the beefier air cooler (DR3, H5 Ultimate, NH-U12S)

[AMDPRO]

I would go with Ryzen because of platform support and because a Ryzen 1700x is usually compared to 8700k in performance

[MageTank]

56 minutes ago, AMDPRO said:

I would go with Ryzen because of platform support and because a Ryzen 1700x is usually compared to 8700k in performance

Platform support? What does that mean? Also, how is a 1700X comparable to an 8700k in performance? The 8700k will out-perform the Ryzen 1700X quite handily for high refresh rate gaming. It won't even be a close fight. Now, since he is talking about an 8600k, that is a different story if he is doing something that requires a lot of threads. If he finds himself needing a lot of cores/threads for cheap, then Ryzen would be a cheaper alternative to something like the 8700k or the X299 SKU's. 

 

I just don't really understand your "platform support" argument, nor your reasoning behind the 8700k being comparable to a 1700X in a system that is used "mainly for gaming". 

[Jon Jon]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

Platform support? What does that mean? Also, how is a 1700X comparable to an 8700k in performance? The 8700k will out-perform the Ryzen 1700X quite handily for high refresh rate gaming. It won't even be a close fight. Now, since he is talking about an 8600k, that is a different story if he is doing something that requires a lot of threads. If he finds himself needing a lot of cores/threads for cheap, then Ryzen would be a cheaper alternative to something like the 8700k or the X299 SKU's. 

 

I just don't really understand your "platform support" argument, nor your reasoning behind the 8700k being comparable to a 1700X in a system that is used "mainly for gaming". 

I think the overall goal for him should be to hit 5ghz with the i5-8600K.

 

That price difference is a solid 240MM AIO.

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, Jon Jon said:

I think the overall goal for him should be to hit 5ghz with the i5-8600K.

 

That price difference is a solid 240MM AIO.

Yeah, I personally would not go with an 8700k over an 8600k if gaming is strictly the goal. The difference just isn't enough to justify the price, nor are 8700k's readily available for purchase in many stores without a heavy markup. A high clocked 8600k (or used 7700k) is ideal in that situation.

 

Bonus points if he is unafraid to use a delid tool, then he might even be able to squeeze out 5.2/5.3ghz depending on his luck. Have seen quite a few 5.2ghz 8600k's floating around recently. 

[Jon Jon]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

Yeah, I personally would not go with an 8700k over an 8600k if gaming is strictly the goal. The difference just isn't enough to justify the price, nor are 8700k's readily available for purchase in many stores without a heavy markup. A high clocked 8600k (or used 7700k) is ideal in that situation.

 

Bonus points if he is unafraid to use a delid tool, then he might even be able to squeeze out 5.2/5.3ghz depending on his luck. Have seen quite a few 5.2ghz 8600k's floating around recently. 

How much is that delid tool?

 

I would suggest similar, as long as he pairs with a strong cooler.

 

I don't like how hot these intel chips get prior to delidding as is with that kind of an OC.

[MageTank]

Just now, Jon Jon said:

How much is that delid tool?

 

I would suggest similar, as long as he pairs with a strong cooler.

 

I don't like how hot these intel chips get prior to delidding as is with that kind of an OC.

I believe it's $35 if you use a coupon code (KABYSPECIAL5), or $40 normally: https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/rockit-88

 

Super easy to use, instructions are very clear. The only thing to take care of, if using liquid metal, is to cover any capacitors/contacts near the die with liquid electrical tape or clearcoat nail polish, to avoid any shorts. You can even use nail polish at the outside 4 corners of the IHS to keep the IHS attached to the CPU. 

 

Other delid tools do exist, but they can be far more expensive, and less user-friendly. I personally use the Rockit 88, and have used it on dozens of CPU's, so I can personally vouch for it. 

[dcgreen2k]

18 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Platform support? What does that mean? Also, how is a 1700X comparable to an 8700k in performance? The 8700k will out-perform the Ryzen 1700X quite handily for high refresh rate gaming. It won't even be a close fight. Now, since he is talking about an 8600k, that is a different story if he is doing something that requires a lot of threads. If he finds himself needing a lot of cores/threads for cheap, then Ryzen would be a cheaper alternative to something like the 8700k or the X299 SKU's. 

 

I just don't really understand your "platform support" argument, nor your reasoning behind the 8700k being comparable to a 1700X in a system that is used "mainly for gaming". 

AMD will support AM4 until at least 2020. This means that they will make CPUs that will fit in AM4 sockets and most likely be compatible with our existing chipsets (A320, B350, X370). Intel, however, will push out it's new generation of CPUs which might fit in an existing socket, but won't be supported by the existing chipsets in something like 8 months down the road.

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, thegreengamers said:

AMD will support AM4 until at least 2020. This means that they will make CPUs that will fit in AM4 sockets and most likely be compatible with our existing chipsets (A320, B350, X370). Intel, however, will push out it's new generation of CPUs which might fit in an existing socket, but won't be supported by the existing chipsets in something like 8 months down the road.

I am aware that the socket (AM4) will be supported until 2020, but that still says very little about actual chipset support. We also don't know enough about cannonlake or icelake to make definitive claims regarding platform support, which is why I was confused as to why he seemed so certain in his post.

 

From what I can see, future CPU support for both Intel and AMD seem enigmatic at the moment. 

[ARikozuM]

Just now, thegreengamers said:

AMD will support AM4 until at least 2020. This means that they will make CPUs that will fit in AM4 sockets and most likely be compatible with our existing chipsets (A320, B350, X370). Intel, however, will push out it's new generation of CPUs which might fit in an existing socket, but won't be supported by the existing chipsets in something like 8 months down the road.

Intel usually has two line-ups for each socket and every modern Intel chipset has supported the following generation via a BIOS update (SKL supports KBL. HSW, Haswell Refresh/Devil's Canyon and BRW, etc.). To say that this wouldn't happen is neglecting past trends. Also, support until 2020 could mean just one more revision for AMD or another 220W CPU like the 9590.