Ryzen over Coffee?

[Princess Luna]

9 minutes ago, thegreengamers said:

.

Yeah the FX-9590 is a perfect example of how great it is AMD "supporting" old platforms with new processors.

[i_build_nanosuits]

2 hours ago, PartyWire said:

Hej, i just got a Quest to build a custom PC. The hardest choice is the CPU, I don't know if to go with the Ryzen or the New Coffee lake CPUs... The Price difference is around 100 euros, (i5-8600K - 265€, Ryzen 1700X - 383€).

I The Pc will be mainly for Gaming, but some times some Work.

the i5 should be the one that cost more...that says a lot.

[TahoeDust]

Look at all the AMD owners trying to make a case for an inferior performing product.  This is becoming a joke.

 

OP, buy the 8600k.  It will clearly outperform ANY Ryzen in gaming and will be more than enough for "a little work".  

 

Easy choice.

[i_build_nanosuits]

6 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

Look at all the AMD owners trying to make a case for an inferior performing product.  This is becoming a joke.

2012 all over again.

[ARikozuM]

8 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

Look at all the AMD owners trying to make a case for an inferior performing product.  This is becoming a joke.

I wouldn't go that far. Ryzen is a great performer, but the excuse for AMD's proposed support has yet to be seen and shouldn't be claimed as such. Especially given the issues the IMC and freq still have; only the IMC can be fixed. 

 

In my opinion, the 8600K competes with the Ryzen octa-cores. Nothing else touches the 8700K at the moment aside from an equally clocked 8600K. 

[JoostinOnline]

23 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

Look at all the AMD owners trying to make a case for an inferior performing product.  This is becoming a joke.

 

OP, buy the 8600k.  It will clearly outperform ANY Ryzen in gaming and will be more than enough for "a little work".  

 

Easy choice.

I want to note that this only applies if the 8600k is at or near MSRP.  With new products, prices can be absolutely crazy in some countries. I wouldn't be surprised if an 8600k is twice the cost of a 1600 somewhere, in which case a 1600 would be the better buy.

 

In gaming and at MSRP, Coffee Lake is a clear winner. Ryzen has plenty of relevance in some content creation and in countries where prices are different. I'm not disagreeing with you, I just want to expand on it. 

[AMDPRO]

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

Platform support? What does that mean?

All amd cpus till 2020 will be on AM4, so better platform support in the long run. I doubt lga 1151 will be used for cannon lake

[MageTank]

23 minutes ago, AMDPRO said:

All amd cpus till 2020 will be on AM4, so better platform support in the long run. I doubt lga 1151 will be used for cannon lake

Having doubts doesn't exactly make it true though. Cannonlake is still slated to support "300 series PCH", and while a carbon copy of Z270, Z370 still technically fits that description. Not only that, but having a longer platform support isn't always a good thing, especially if the socket/chipset ends up holding back the CPU design in the long run. We saw this when AMD had their AM2/AM3 hybrid platforms (AM2+). Backwards compatibility is great and all, until it causes stagnation in the design of a future product. AMD's history of trying to force backwards compatibility, and socket longevity, has always come back to haunt them in the future. I certainly hope Ryzen doesn't fall victim to this philosophy.

 

With that being said, I cannot imagine those who have a modern Intel or AMD CPU needing an upgrade within the next few years. We still have people gaming on Sandy Bridge just fine. Software seems to be moving at a crawl, and we are just now reaching the point where processors with more than 4 cores are showing a decent enough gain in framerates to warrant having more cores/threads. I doubt (feel free to use this word against me) that will change any time soon.

[MyName13]

31 minutes ago, MageTank said:

. AMD's history of trying to force backwards compatibility, and socket longevity, has always come back to haunt them in the future..

 

With that being said, I cannot imagine those who have a modern Intel or AMD CPU needing an upgrade within the next few years. 

Finally someone said all of this in one post on this forum.What's the point of upgradability?Those who can afford an upgrade every generation certainly can't complain about "quick" socket abandoning.Besides, we still don't know whether current motherboards will support future am4 CPUs.

[DarkSmith2]

7 hours ago, PartyWire said:

Hej, i just got a Quest to build a custom PC. The hardest choice is the CPU, I don't know if to go with the Ryzen or the New Coffee lake CPUs... The Price difference is around 100 euros, (i5-8600K - 265€, Ryzen 1700X - 383€).

I The Pc will be mainly for Gaming, but some times some Work.

i7-8700k best of both worlds gaming and working. Easy to answer. 

 

60fps pure gaming = r5 1600/1600x

60fps gaming + working = R7 1700/1700x/1800x

High refreshrate pure gaming = i5 8600k

High refreshrate gaming + working = i7 8700k

[i_build_nanosuits]

4 hours ago, AMDPRO said:

All amd cpus till 2020 will be on AM4, so better platform support in the long run.

yes...and AMD supported AM3+ for years...pushing crappy CPU's after crappy CPU's...doesn't make it any better....did you upgraded from an FX-8150 to an FX-8350? probably not...because it wasn't worth it

[Clyne]

5 hours ago, MageTank said:

I believe it's $35 if you use a coupon code (KABYSPECIAL5), or $40 normally: https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/rockit-88

 

Super easy to use, instructions are very clear. The only thing to take care of, if using liquid metal, is to cover any capacitors/contacts near the die with liquid electrical tape or clearcoat nail polish, to avoid any shorts. You can even use nail polish at the outside 4 corners of the IHS to keep the IHS attached to the CPU. 

 

Other delid tools do exist, but they can be far more expensive, and less user-friendly. I personally use the Rockit 88, and have used it on dozens of CPU's, so I can personally vouch for it. 

Thanks for the code, been meaning to get one buy it's pricey.

[Jon Jon]

I have a good feeling with AM4 support.

 

Just because something was done poorly in the past, does not necessarily mean that they will happen in the future.

 

Business evolves and so do their process.

 

They did that with Ryzen, so we will see how support goes.

 

However, if you want the best performance today for gaming, it's hard to tell someone to not pony up for an i5 8600K.

 

Any 5ghz OC Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake is really the best you can get if trying to push for 144/165/240 hz gaming.

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, Jon Jon said:

I have a good feeling with AM4 support.

 

Just because something was done poorly in the past, does not necessarily mean that they will happen in the future.

This is true, but we cannot be completely ignorant of the past. We saw it with AM2+ and AM3+, and AM4 is still very fresh, with very little known about the 2020 projection of the lineup. While I do not expect IPC gains to come out of nowhere (and let's be real, Ryzen's IPC is still fine where it's at, it's good enough), it might be hard to improve power delivery for the CPU if the pin configuration remains exactly the same when future SKU's launch. So if they try to maintain backwards compatibility, or in this case, an upgrade path on existing sockets, it might hold back potentially stronger CPU's in the future.

 

Again, this is purely speculation based entirely on previous historical practices from AMD, so I won't speak as if it's an absolute fact, it's still something we have to keep in mind when discussing "platform support" as a potential boon. Backwards compatibility is not something that comes with zero consequences. If AMD can improve upon Ryzen's IMC, and core overclocking without requiring a new socket, I'll certainly be happy for Ryzen users and their potential upgrade path. If it requires a new socket to make that happen, I also wouldn't blame AMD for going that path. Sometimes, you have to sacrifice comfort for change, and if they want a shot at truly beating Intel (not just in pricing, but actual performance), that change might be necessary. 

 

42 minutes ago, Bubblewhale said:

Thanks for the code, been meaning to get one buy it's pricey.

You can actually thank @done12many2, as he went out of his way to get it, lol. 

[done12many2]

6 minutes ago, MageTank said:

You can actually thank @done12many2, as he went out of his way to get it, lol. 

 

You know I'm a cheap bastard.

[Jon Jon]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

This is true, but we cannot be completely ignorant of the past. We saw it with AM2+ and AM3+, and AM4 is still very fresh, with very little known about the 2020 projection of the lineup. While I do not expect IPC gains to come out of nowhere (and let's be real, Ryzen's IPC is still fine where it's at, it's good enough), it might be hard to improve power delivery for the CPU if the pin configuration remains exactly the same when future SKU's launch. So if they try to maintain backwards compatibility, or in this case, an upgrade path on existing sockets, it might hold back potentially stronger CPU's in the future.

 

Again, this is purely speculation based entirely on previous historical practices from AMD, so I won't speak as if it's an absolute fact, it's still something we have to keep in mind when discussing "platform support" as a potential boon. Backwards compatibility is not something that comes with zero consequences. If AMD can improve upon Ryzen's IMC, and core overclocking without requiring a new socket, I'll certainly be happy for Ryzen users and their potential upgrade path. If it requires a new socket to make that happen, I also wouldn't blame AMD for going that path. Sometimes, you have to sacrifice comfort for change, and if they want a shot at truly beating Intel (not just in pricing, but actual performance), that change might be necessary. 

 

You can actually thank @done12many2, as he went out of his way to get it, lol. 

The next couple of years will be interesting regarding this.

 

I won't pretend like I am a CPU design engineer, but I would love to see a data sheet on what all of the pins are being used for.

 

As a Ryzen user, I do not expect more cores, but the IMC along with being able to achieve higher frequencies I imagine should be achievable with the layout selected.

 

These things run ice freaking cold with a good cooler, so we really are just at a limitations with the architecture itself.

 

I am curious as to what Zen+ does for new users, along with what Zen 2 specifically can grant.

 

Though I have zero interest in upgrading any time soon, since I am super happy with the performance I get on my rig currently (it's funny, btw, how now that Coffee Lake is out, people are trying to sell off Ryzen like it's garbage overnight).

 

Bulldozer was a major gamble, as that was a totally radical architecture that simply didn't take off, nor did it get the support it really needed to be successful.

 

I think Ryzen is more of a "developer friendly" architecture, so it's not so limiting and can scale really well, especially with SMT.

 

It seems like they learned their lesson this time around, and they really can't afford to screw this up.

 

I am still mad that they screwed up Vega!

[Clyne]

23 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

You know I'm a cheap bastard.

 

23 hours ago, MageTank said:

This is true, but we cannot be completely ignorant of the past. We saw it with AM2+ and AM3+, and AM4 is still very fresh, with very little known about the 2020 projection of the lineup. While I do not expect IPC gains to come out of nowhere (and let's be real, Ryzen's IPC is still fine where it's at, it's good enough), it might be hard to improve power delivery for the CPU if the pin configuration remains exactly the same when future SKU's launch. So if they try to maintain backwards compatibility, or in this case, an upgrade path on existing sockets, it might hold back potentially stronger CPU's in the future.

 

Again, this is purely speculation based entirely on previous historical practices from AMD, so I won't speak as if it's an absolute fact, it's still something we have to keep in mind when discussing "platform support" as a potential boon. Backwards compatibility is not something that comes with zero consequences. If AMD can improve upon Ryzen's IMC, and core overclocking without requiring a new socket, I'll certainly be happy for Ryzen users and their potential upgrade path. If it requires a new socket to make that happen, I also wouldn't blame AMD for going that path. Sometimes, you have to sacrifice comfort for change, and if they want a shot at truly beating Intel (not just in pricing, but actual performance), that change might be necessary. 

 

You can actually thank @done12many2, as he went out of his way to get it, lol. 

Can't do 5GHZ without doing -2x AVX offset to keep temps down rip..

I'm around going around 80-90C in some cases with 1.36V.

[done12many2]

3 minutes ago, Bubblewhale said:

 

Can't do 5GHZ without doing -2x AVX offset to keep temps down rip..

I'm around going around 80-90C in some cases with 1.36V.

 

What types of loads are you running that require AVX?  

 

A not very well know secret is that you can completely disable AVX in Windows if it's of no use to you.  Might be a better option to AVX offset.  I've found offset to be a bit unpredictable.  Personally, I just run full bore with no AVX offset, but I do like the feature.  

[TahoeDust]

10 minutes ago, Bubblewhale said:

 

Can't do 5GHZ without doing -2x AVX offset to keep temps down rip..

I'm around going around 80-90C in some cases with 1.36V.

Nothing wrong with using the AVX offset to keep temps under control.  Used correctly, you can run AVX instructions and non AVX instructions as high as thermally possible.  5GHz when gaming etc., 4.8GHz when encoding etc.

[Clyne]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

What types of loads are you running that require AVX?  

 

A not very well know secret is that you can completely disable AVX in Windows if it's of no use to you.  Might be a better option to AVX offset.  I've found offset to be a bit unpredictable.  Personally, I just run full bore with no AVX offset, but I do like the feature.  

Pretty much 5GHZ makes it running "hot" and blue screens. I'm already running 100C in some cases.