Vega Mining increased with new beta driver

[knightslugger]

7 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

You can pay with bitcoin in a bunch of stores if you want, and  even more places on the web. 

I know, not sure what this alt coin talk it's about. 

[DXMember]

8 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Last time I got into an OpenCL conversation it was deemed infinitely inferior to Cuda. Not that I agree with that. 

 

And thats what drivers are for. Detect the kind of workload and if it's mining shut it down and gimp the hell out of the hash rate. It's the only way these people will learn. 

why are you so anti-consumer though?

CUDA is platform specific, also OpenCL is not the only CUDA competitor

[lsstefan]

I honestly don't care about miners. They decided to make money instead of gaming. Good for them.

What I do care is the price raising for non money making users. That's messed up.

They should make from the start hobby cards and mining cards, like there are some. Hobby cards should be regular price and mining can be whatever they want in order for the retailers or producers to make profit. If hobby card is used for mining it performs shit via driver I guess.

Hard things to do, but that can be a middle ground so that the hate between gamers and miners is over.

 

Make PCs, not War.

[knightslugger]

11 minutes ago, lsstefan said:

They should make from the start hobby cards and mining cards, like there are some. Hobby cards should be regular price and mining can be whatever they want in order for the retailers or producers to make profit.

Here's the problem with that: ABSOLUTELY ZERO RESELLABILITY.

 

What businessman in their right mind would knowingly buy a product that has NEAR ZERO EoL value over another product that has extraordinary EoL value that does the EXACT same thing.

 

The problem is, as i've stated before, is that GPU Miners are being RETARDED about this. For the price of just ONE of their 8 GPU rigs chock full of RX580's @ $500/ea. and a $80 MB, a $50 CPU, $40 of RAM, and a pair of 1000W PSUs (over $150/EA) they're in it for nearly $4500. PER RIG.

 

That's a PAIR of ASIC miners with PSUs pulling 1600 watts total, earning $150 a day.

[lsstefan]

4 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Here's the problem with that: ABSOLUTELY ZERO RESELLABILITY.

 

What businessman in their right mind would knowingly buy a product that has NEAR ZERO EoL value?

Are you talking about reselling the product you bought?

If that's the case, I can give you that, but no manufacturer cares about your product resellability. They want those that would buy your card for less to buy their cards for new.

So that's not a problem for the manufacturer, that's a problem for the consumer. And the consumer can decide whether it's in their own benefit to buy a 0$ resale item or not. Not to mention, most of the businessmen that already bought mining cards got their money back from it + profit. 

I would say lets not get greedy, but I understand it's a form of business. Nevertheless, fair would be that both sides get benefits, not one get all the good stuff and the other half can suck a big one, no?

[knightslugger]

2 minutes ago, lsstefan said:

Are you talking about reselling the product you bought?

If that's the case, I can give you that, but no manufacturer cares about your product resellability. They want those that would buy your card for less to buy their cards for new.

So that's not a problem for the manufacturer, that's a problem for the consumer. And the consumer can decide whether it's in their own benefit to buy a 0$ resale item or not. Not to mention, most of the businessmen that already bought mining cards got their money back from it + profit. 

I would say lets not get greedy, but I understand it's a form of business. Nevertheless, fair would be that both sides get benefits, not one get all the good stuff and the other half can suck a big one, no?

BS. I would not purchase a mining only GPU sans video out for ANY reason, unless they were $100/ea. How does that work in favor of the manufacturer who's making these things to be sold? It doesn't! Irrational people will buy them, and you can't fix stupid. That's just a fact. But stupid people tend to see reason rather quickly when it's pointed out to them. Thanks to the age of Social Media, that tends to happen faster than manufactures can react.

 

But since you're on the subject of greedy... who's being greedy: The gamer or the miner? You submit that it's the miner that's being greedy while I submit it's the gamer that WANTS what he can't get.

 

I think your definition of greedy is in the form of money. I see it as unattainable desire. Which one is more accurate?

 

Fairness is simple: The early bird gets the worm.

[lsstefan]

Just now, knightslugger said:

But since you're on the subject of greedy... who's being greedy: The gamer or the miner? You submit that it's the miner that's being greedy while I submit it's the gamer that WANTS what he can't get.

 

I think your definition of greedy is in the form of money. I see it as unattainable desire. Which one is more accurate?

 

Fairness is simple: The early bird gets the worm.

How can a gamer be greedy if he'd like to buy the 1060 or 580 for their retail price?

More than half a year ago you could buy those cards with X amount. Now you can buy them for 1.5X with some luck. Where am I, as a regular GPU user greedy in that? 

And you claim businessmen can't justify buying cards that don't resell, how can regular joes justify buying cards that are 1.5-2 times more expensive than what they were for the same performance? And the manufacturer didn't raise the price because a GTX1060 could rock 4k at 240Hz, they raised it(or the retailers, I still don't know) to make profit because they excelled in different domains than the one they were built for.

 

And I never blamed miners for wanting to make money, I blamed manufacturers for not handling this for all the users to get same benefits. 

You do seem kind of aggressive regarding this topic, guess I will step down.

I do hope that you won't experience on a big level the fairness you claimed at the end. You might not like not being the early worm.

Have a good day.

[LAwLz]

Anime figurine sellers/stores had this problem figured out years ago. Limit the number of units a person can order.

If AMD and/or stores really wanted to get rid of miners (love the ludicrous theory that AMD don't want miners buying their cards and are trying to fight it) then they would just limit the number of cards each person could buy. Set it to 2 cards per customer.

[knightslugger]

24 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Anime figurine sellers/stores had this problem figured out years ago. Limit the number of units a person can order.

If AMD and/or stores really wanted to get rid of miners (love the ludicrous theory that AMD don't want miners buying their cards and are trying to fight it) then they would just limit the number of cards each person could buy. Set it to 2 cards per customer.

then i'd buy 2, and then i'd have everyone i know buy two until i am satisfied.

 

It doesn't work.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 8/17/2017 at 0:57 AM, NumLock21 said:

 

There are those out there, that would like to get one of those card, for their builds.

Miners, for example. 

 

On 8/17/2017 at 0:57 AM, NumLock21 said:

Yet these miners are ruining it for others, by snatching up everything, which leads to low stock, and jacked up prices.

So buying something is now called "ruining it for others"... 

They buy stuff. They are not more ill-willed than any other buyer, gamer or otherwise, leading to the collective outcome of high demand. 

"Those idiots who live shining things are dining it to others who just want to buy gold for cheap!"

"Those greedy, irrational firms piling up in the 5th Avenue! I wanted to buy a flat there! You know, for living, not some stupid business!"

If the price that clears the market is too high for you, though luck. Seeking someone to blame for your frustration about not having a particular peoduxt to play with is childish. 

 

On 8/17/2017 at 0:57 AM, NumLock21 said:

It's good that amd are selling their cards, but they are just selling it, as if only miners exist on this planet and there is no one else.

No, they sell them as if everyone who buys them exist, to the extent that they can cope with supply without squeezing their profit margin. Then the market forces do their job. 

 

So yes, it is hard to understand where all this passion for controlled prices  and central planning to allocate resources come from. It does look like some entitlement-driven impulse to treat GPUs as some form of fundamental need that justifies disrupting the functioning of the free market to achieve a "socially desirable allocation". 

Code to think about it, it's not hard to understand: it's the elemental psychological mechanism on which populism feeds. 

It's so brilliant, we even have a group to blame, the miners. You know, "those people". 

 

On 8/17/2017 at 0:57 AM, NumLock21 said:

If you're in the need of a new gpu and would like to get a vega 64.

It is basically your problem, just like if you are "in need" of a new car and want a Ferrari 360 Modena. 

 

[Zodiark1593]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Anime figurine sellers/stores had this problem figured out years ago. Limit the number of units a person can order.

If AMD and/or stores really wanted to get rid of miners (love the ludicrous theory that AMD don't want miners buying their cards and are trying to fight it) then they would just limit the number of cards each person could buy. Set it to 2 cards per customer.

Well, there goes my Folding@home Vega cluster project.

 

Jk

[NumLock21]

47 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

snip

If AMD were to have enough supplies to meet the demands and not drive the prices up, then it won't be a issue, for those that really want one of those Vega cards. I on the other hand, is still running on a HD5850, was planning to upgrade to a vega. But after looking at reviews, the card wasn't too exciting and I'm still able to the games on my current card, so I don't see the point of upgrading. Not even the GTX 1070 or 1080/Ti excites me that much either. Maybe their next gens or those after will? If not, I'll probably force upgrade when my gpu stops working.

As for "your problem" I don't have any problems. I want to understand, how some people's mind works.

* Need a new gpu, but can't get cause it's constantly out of stock and prices are jacked up. But that's okay, great job AMD for making a profit, while I'm here without a gpu*

[knightslugger]

16 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

* Need a new gpu, but can't get cause it's constantly out of stock and prices are jacked up. But that's okay, great job AMD for making a profit, while I'm here without a gpu*

One can be gotten, they're just not looking hard enough to find them. There are places that have them in stock ready to sell and ship, you simply have to look harder than two websites to find them.

 

The fact remains, they waited until people had the first batch, and they KNEW (or should have known) going into it that they would be ungodly desirable because "new and shiny" and "hyped to hell", and now the same people who complain about not finding a high end GPU are the same ones who didn't preorder and decided to wait it out.

 

so bizzare.

[NumLock21]

1 minute ago, knightslugger said:

One can be gotten, they're just not looking hard enough to find them. There are places that have them in stock ready to sell and ship, you simply have to look harder than two websites to find them.

That's true, keep looking and eventually there will be a place that sells it.

[GOTSpectrum]

On 8/17/2017 at 5:46 AM, Humbug said:

Vega56 looks like a really good product actually. I would easily choose it over a GTX 1070.

 

Vega64 seems to be a big dud right now.

 

It seems extreme but if I was AMD and supply was limited I would have considered only launching Vega FE and Vega56.

The only reason Vega 64 was launched was to not fall intro the trap that they did with the RX 400/500 series. That is people thinking they cant compete on the HEDT with regards to graphics. In the long run this has been the reasoning behind many of RTGs decisions. Look at the like of the r9 295x2, it was designed to show that they can compete. Unfortunately, AMDs uarch methodology doesn't really fit into this. GCN is amazing at mid level performance, at compute tasks and can be tuned too be very efficient. Unfortunately, when you push these styles of architecture to the high end, they get hungry and put out heat. Personally I think they should have just taken the Fiji architecture shrink it too 14nm and off they go. The performance would be similar to Vega from what I hear and see anyway. Plus they could have fired that out quick. 

 

With that said we don't know what tech is hidden in Vega, I honestly believe that Vega is simply AMD taking a prototype and putting it into production. They had to react to Pascall HE and the only think they had was Vega(would explain the long wait), which I believe is intended to be a proof of concept for some technologies for use in Navi. Which should have similar scalability as ryzen with infinity fabric(I hope). If this scalability can be realised it will be revolutionary for both the consumer market and the compute market for enterprise. 

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Ben Quigley said:

Personally I think they should have just taken the Fiji architecture shrink it too 14nm and off they go. The performance would be similar to Vega from what I hear and see anyway. Plus they could have fired that out quick. 

Vega already is essentially Fiji, have a read of Anandtech's review as they cover that.

[LAwLz]

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

Vega already is essentially Fiji, have a read of Anandtech's review as they cover that.

Looks like I owe some people an apology. 

I got quite upset when people kept making excuses saying that "Vega is using a modified Fiji driver".

I said that made no sense but as it turns out they were right. It does use a modified Fiji driver...  Because Vega is a modified Fiji. 

[leadeater]

31 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Looks like I owe some people an apology. 

I got quite upset when people kept making excuses saying that "Vega is using a modified Fiji driver".

I said that made no sense but as it turns out they were right. It does use a modified Fiji driver...  Because Vega is a modified Fiji. 

Well Anandtech has made that same kind of statement ever since GPUs on wards from the 7970, they all are GCN after all and are just scale-ups of internal components with minor tweaks.

 

I understood you're point, don't expect miracles from a 'Vega driver'.

 

Quote

Thus far when we’ve been discussing Hawaii, it’s typically been in comparison to Tahiti, and there’s good reason for that. Besides the obvious parallel of being AMD’s new flagship GPU, finally succeeding Tahiti after just short of 2 years, in terms of design Hawaii looks and acts a lot like an improved Tahiti.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review/3

Spoiler

 

Quote

Like the Hawaii GPU before it, from a release standpoint Fiji is not really the pathfinder chip for its architecture, but rather it’s the largest version of it. Fiji itself is based on what we unofficially call Graphics Core Next 1.2 (aka GEN3), and ignoring HBM for the moment, Fiji incorporates a few smaller changes but otherwise remaining nearly identical to the previous GCN 1.2 chips.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9390/the-amd-radeon-r9-fury-x-review/2

Spoiler

 

Quote

Vega 10 is for most practical purposes the successor to the Fiji GPU used in the Radeon R9 Fury and Nano products. And at face value this may seem a bit obvious – after all, it’s AMD’s first high-end GPU since then – but digging down a bit deeper, it’s interesting just how alike Fiji it is.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11717/the-amd-radeon-rx-vega-64-and-56-review/2

Spoiler

 

You could almost re-post the same review every time and just change the performance graphs lol.

[LAwLz]

18 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I understood you're point, don't expect miracles from a 'Vega driver'.

I was just being sassy.

 

I still think everyone who was blaming a "Fiji driver" didn't know what they were talking about and their argument had as many holes in it as a fishing net.

[D13H4RD]

Too bad I have no plans to build a PC just for mining 

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I was just being sassy.

 

I still think everyone who was blaming a "Fiji driver" didn't know what they were talking about and their argument had as many holes in it as a fishing net.

You know what us AMD fans are like, we are like leeches and will find anything to latch on to and suck dry. Only large quantities of salt can be used to get rid of us 

[GOTSpectrum]

On 8/19/2017 at 0:15 AM, leadeater said:

Vega already is essentially Fiji, have a read of Anandtech's review as they cover that.

So why did it take so long then? Do we know? or is it simply just HBM2 issues?

[RagnarokDel]

On ‎2017‎-‎08‎-‎16 at 2:18 PM, DrMacintosh said:

ugh they should just gimp performance when the card detects its given a mining workload. 

so it should nerf compute performance? That sounds stupid AF.

[cj09beira]

1 hour ago, Ben Quigley said:

So why did it take so long then? Do we know? or is it simply just HBM2 issues?

they were probably focusing on server and professional workloads, as only now are they really entering the MI, AI markets.

though they did change a couple of things that might have resulted in extra work, like moving the cache and all the extra instructions