Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber [UPDATE] Author Fired

[TacoSenpai]

2 minutes ago, skyace65 said:

Just going to add my own two cents and anecdotal experiences.

 

Saying women on average aren't as interested as men in stuff like coding is completely accurate.

 

Back in high school(I graduated 2 years ago) I was the president of the technology club. The majority of the club was men. We focused on robotics and video game design, though if you had a new idea for something the club could do you were welcome to try, we even had a drone at one point until it was grounded for insurance reasons. The club was open to everyone, and if you were interested all you had to do was show up. Please tell me how discrimination stopped women from joining our club.

 

Right now I'm currently attending a college for animation, and the majority of people in my major are guys. And before someone brings it up I'm aware that CalArts(it's an animation school) in California is mostly women. However from the student work I've seen they focus more on 2D animation while my schools program focuses on 3D. Back to my school, we also have a coding major. And the majority of people I've met in the coding major are men. So after college If I want to start an animation or videogame company with the people I know from school, it's going to be mostly men.

 

How is any tech company supposed to have close to 50/50 representation when the people graduating with STEM degrees isn't 50/50 men and women? And furthermore why is it a problem as long as women aren't being discouraged? Someone give me clear evidence of most colleges or highschools discouraging women from going into STEM.

 

And I understand that genuine sexism in some companies does exist, and it deserves to be called out and stopped. However if the thought that you might end up in a shitty situation when you have a job was enough to stop someone from studying STEM, me and many other people wouldn't be trying to get into the game industry after reading about how some game companies treat their employees during crunch time.

That is a pretty valid point.  Granted I guess you can say this is a limited sample size and there might be isolated instances where there are a good amount of women in STEM majors (I don't know any off the top of my head).  However, there is not a whole lot you can do if women just are not interested or  are not getting involved in STEM studies short of forced labor and telling them you will be in STEM or you will code which is obviously wrong for many reasons.  To my knowledge there is nothing legally prohibiting women from getting involved in STEM or majoring in those fields but if they just are not doing it then what do you do?  Sure you can market it and maybe even do more to demonstrate the obvious lucrative benefits and opportunities it opens up (at least for now I think automation might change alot but that's a separate topic).  Even then you have alot of detractors regardless of gender, race, and so on.  Traditionally from what I've seen the workload for STEM majors is intense and can be grueling especially for things like civil, mech, and CS so that means less social time, possibly harder work depending on what you are good at subject wise, and yeah lets face it there is probably a social stigma that STEM is the nerdy thing but I think that applies to everyone in the field.  I mean sure there are more guys involved in STEM however, if I'm not mistaken there are also too few STEM majors and people period that is WHY they are in such demand and paid so much and it makes sense when you have less supply of a commodity or a skill set it drives the cost up.  To me maybe the problem shouldn't be how to get more women or x race involved in STEM maybe it should be how to get more PEOPLE involved in STEM all together because that would lend itself to be getting marketed and emphasized better and MIGHT just MIGHT get more people involved all the while breaking societal norms, trends, and it would be based on the individual's own merits of getting degrees and qualifications that are demanding and highly valued.

[MrDynamicMan]

7 hours ago, Commodus said:

But it's not "simply explaining existing phenomenon."  It's pseudoscientific crap that sounds legitimate, but omits any real evidence.  That you trust his statements explicitly says more about what you want to believe than whether or not it's true.

It's not, there's well established psychological papers on the matter. You cant off something as pseudoscientific without evidence to the contrary because it offends you or you disagree with it. 

Quote

Also, news flash: you're not a woman.  Every woman I know who's seen this document has said he's a sexist asshole and that they're glad he was fired.  Instead of imagining what women would think, maybe you should actually ask them and understand why it's sexist.

Really, because out of the 5 women I've talked to 3 agreed with me and 2 where neutral. 

 

Moreover, Anecdotal offense means literally nothing, and put the "you're not (minority) so you can't comment at all" card back in the deck. 

[ravenshrike]

11 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Really, because out of the 5 women I've talked to 3 agreed with me and 2 where neutral

Ah but you see those women clearly practiced wrongthink.

[MrDynamicMan]

10 hours ago, laminutederire said:

The most skilled are more likely to don't care a bit about money, but more about what they're working on, which is why a lot of them remain in the academic world where they get paid much less.

That may be true, for say, psychologists, but u don't see software engineers staying at uni to peruse the academic

[MadyTehWolfie]

Honestly this thread is a shit show

[The Sloth]

4 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Honestly this thread is a shit show

it always was

[FakeNSA]

1 minute ago, nerdslayer1 said:

it always was

And it was always going to be. Honestly surprised it hasn't been locked yet!

[MrDynamicMan]

10 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Diversity Officer: You're just confused, we're only hiring the most qualified candidates.  They just happen to also have the correct skin color and reproductive bits.

 

Random white male engineer: But how are you hiring the most qualified candidate if you're only interviewing minorities and women for this job?

 

Diversity Officer: Are you saying that women and minorities can't be the most qualified candidate?

 

 

This is how actual conversations go.  Everyone has pretty much given up trying to reason with the folks pushing diversity initiatives.  It always reduces to them indirectly calling you a racist/bigot/sexist/whatever and their logic must be infallible because their cause is noble.  It's both amusing and frustrating at the same time: like playing a game on some insane difficulty level.

Pigeon chess with an extremely self riteous pigeon. 

[Jito463]

2 minutes ago, Aelar_Nailo said:

And it was always going to be. Honestly surprised it hasn't been locked yet!

To be fair, while there has been considerable passionate - and even heated - debate, there really hasn't been too much flaming/trolling, all things considered.

[MrDynamicMan]

51 minutes ago, LordTaco42 said:

That is a pretty valid point.  Granted I guess you can say this is a limited sample size and there might be isolated instances where there are a good amount of women in STEM majors (I don't know any off the top of my head).  However, there is not a whole lot you can do if women just are not interested or  are not getting involved in STEM studies short of forced labor and telling them you will be in STEM or you will code which is obviously wrong for many reasons.  To my knowledge there is nothing legally prohibiting women from getting involved in STEM or majoring in those fields but if they just are not doing it then what do you do?  Sure you can market it and maybe even do more to demonstrate the obvious lucrative benefits and opportunities it opens up (at least for now I think automation might change alot but that's a separate topic).  Even then you have alot of detractors regardless of gender, race, and so on.  Traditionally from what I've seen the workload for STEM majors is intense and can be grueling especially for things like civil, mech, and CS so that means less social time, possibly harder work depending on what you are good at subject wise, and yeah lets face it there is probably a social stigma that STEM is the nerdy thing but I think that applies to everyone in the field.  I mean sure there are more guys involved in STEM however, if I'm not mistaken there are also too few STEM majors and people period that is WHY they are in such demand and paid so much and it makes sense when you have less supply of a commodity or a skill set it drives the cost up.  To me maybe the problem shouldn't be how to get more women or x race involved in STEM maybe it should be how to get more PEOPLE involved in STEM all together because that would lend itself to be getting marketed and emphasized better and MIGHT just MIGHT get more people involved all the while breaking societal norms, trends, and it would be based on the individual's own merits of getting degrees and qualifications that are demanding and highly valued.

STEM is *very* highly marketed for women, far more so than men. I've seen course after initiative after nonprofit to get women into stem fields, and while there has been literally no push to get ten into it they're still making up the majority. Basically, my view is encourage everyone to join and just let the people who want to do it do it. 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

To be fair, while there has been considerable passionate - and even heated - debate, there really hasn't been too much flaming/trolling, all things considered.

I thing the underlying reason is that everyone agrees with the premise and are fairly unified in their opposition to affirmative action hire,  it is the intricacies of sociology and the perceived political leaning it tickles that is spurring the debate on. 

[MrDynamicMan]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I thing the underlying reason is that everyone agrees with the premise and are fairly unified in their opposition to affirmative action hire,  it is the intricacies of sociology and the perceived political leaning it tickles that is spurring the debate on. 

Yeah. So far I've seen 1 person defend affirmative action, or at least condemn the writer. 

[Memories4K]

Just now, MrDynamicMan said:

STEM is *very* highly marketed for women, far more so than men. I've seen course after initiative after nonprofit to get women into stem fields, and while there has been literally no push to get ten into it they're still making up the majority. Basically, my view is encourage everyone to join and just let the people who want to do it do it. 

A good example of the gender imbalance still being prevalent in a more gender-neutral society than the U.S. is someplace like Sweden or Denmark i believe. Which are countries that i believe most of the world would hold as being far less like the "traditional" U.S. and have made more work towards gender equality.
If i remember correctly women still FAR outnumber men in traditional female roles such as nursing (although i imagine the gap is more closed than the U.S.)

[Memories4K]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I thing the underlying reason is that everyone agrees with the premise and are fairly unified in their opposition to affirmative action hire,  it is the intricacies of sociology and the perceived political leaning it tickles that is spurring the debate on. 

This thread really hasn't been *political* so much as heated about, yeah like you said, society and science.

[MadyTehWolfie]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I thing the underlying reason is that everyone agrees with the premise and are fairly unified in their opposition to affirmative action hire,  it is the intricacies of sociology and the perceived political leaning it tickles that is spurring the debate on. 

Sociology is bullshit took a few classes and all they did was jerk off to Marx and sjw ideologies that everyone is oppressed but white males that are straight, yet it's easier for women and ethnic people to get into schools. An they fail to realize that Asians are out warning and staying in school more often then white males. Combine the fact that they believe the West is a racist sexist place yet defend Islam and the Islamic states that are literally everything they hate and the cognitive dissonance is strong with them.

[matrix07012]

6 minutes ago, Memories4K said:

A good example of the gender imbalance still being prevalent in a more gender-neutral society than the U.S. is someplace like Sweden or Denmark i believe. Which are countries that i believe most of the world would hold as being far less like the "traditional" U.S. and have made more work towards gender equality.
If i remember correctly women still FAR outnumber men in traditional female roles such as nursing (although i imagine the gap is more closed than the U.S.)

Are aware of the Gender equality paradox?

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Sociology is bullshit took a few classes and all they did was jerk off to Marx and sjw ideologies that everyone is oppressed but white males that are straight, yet it's easier for women and ethnic people to get into schools. An they fail to realize that Asians are out warning and staying in school more often then white males. Combine the fact that they believe the West is a racist sexist place yet defend Islam and the Islamic states that are literally everything they hate and the cognitive dissonance is strong with them.

I would say your class was Bullshit,  you can have bad lecturers and poor/biased course structure in any field. 

[MadyTehWolfie]

Just now, mr moose said:

I would say your class was Bullshit,  you can have bad lecturers and poor/biased course structure in any field. 

In sociology it's all left leaning with no original thoughts not to mention they have no basis in science and is all opinions. Sociology is worth little and or nothing at all. Especially intersectional theory is garbage. Honestly if you major in sociology you deserve to be on the unemployment line or saying "would you like fries with that".

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

In sociology it's all left leaning with no original thoughts not to mention they have no basis in science and is all opinions. Sociology is worth little and or nothing at all. Especially intersectional theory is garbage. Honestly if you major in sociology you deserve to be on the unemployment line or saying "would you like fries with that".

well, you are entitled to your opinions.

 

 

[MrDynamicMan]

17 minutes ago, Memories4K said:

A good example of the gender imbalance still being prevalent in a more gender-neutral society than the U.S. is someplace like Sweden or Denmark i believe. Which are countries that i believe most of the world would hold as being far less like the "traditional" U.S. and have made more work towards gender equality.
If i remember correctly women still FAR outnumber men in traditional female roles such as nursing (although i imagine the gap is more closed than the U.S.)

In fact in Sweden there are more women in typical "gender role" jobs such as Healthcare and hospitality. 

[MrDynamicMan]

9 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

Are aware of the Gender equality paradox?

No, what is it? 

[MadyTehWolfie]

Just now, mr moose said:

well, you are entitled to your opinions.

 

 

Sociology is over populated and the fact that other then teaching there's very little work tells you something. Lol can't wait to see how the person at the drive through try to tell me I'm oppressed cause I'm a faggot that has a sexual fetish for women's cloths. 

[matrix07012]

Just now, MrDynamicMan said:

No, what is it? 

 

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Sociology is over populated and the fact that other then teaching there's very little work tells you something. Lol can't wait to see how the person at the drive through try to tell me I'm oppressed cause I'm a faggot that has a sexual fetish for women's cloths. 

You do realise that sociology is much larger than just gender and politics?   It is the foundation of all research that corporations use to guide product development. It is essentially at the core of how everyone understands their place, whether that is a positive perception or negative is irrelevant. Whether you like it or not, your appraisal of society is sociology in action.  The difference is that trained researchers look at as many people as they can before analyzing the data while your opinion is only representative of your perception.   

 

Calling sociology BS while using sociological arguments is flawed.   Just becasue there are a handful that don't get it or misrepresent it, doesn't mean the other 99% are stupid enough to think a flawed process is legitimate.

[MrDynamicMan]

52 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Sociology is over populated and the fact that other then teaching there's very little work tells you something. Lol can't wait to see how the person at the drive through try to tell me I'm oppressed cause I'm a faggot that has a sexual fetish for women's cloths. 

The humanities in general have become left wing echo chambers. If I'm remembering stats 20% of humanities teachers where self proclaimed Marxists and like 95% are left leaning.