"Let's Build a HTPC!", or, "The Joy of Building in a Logisys Case"

[aisle9]

Hello LTT!

 

First, some background. Once upon a time (up until June), I had a computer named Senketsu. Senketsu was my friend, and I loved him dearly. He was running an i7-4790K, a GTX 1070, 16GB of RAM and a Gigabyte Z97 Micro ATX board inside of a Thermaltake Core V21. He was my powerhouse. Then, one day, I left him on while we went to the grocery store to wrap up some downloads, and when I came home, disaster. The fans had seized up, the cooler fans were twitching, and the screen was completely frozen in place. Some troubleshooting later, it was apparent that Senketsu's board had suffered serious damage and was unusable. The troubleshooting gave way to tears as I sent Senketsu's motherboard off to Gigabyte's RMA. At the same time, I ordered an AsRock Z97 motherboard to move Senketsu into a new case, because who expects to get anything back from Gigabyte RMA, and who expects what you get back to ever work again, right?

 

The 4790K suffered some permanent damage. With a Hyper T4 attached to it, Prime95 26.6 immediately rocketed to 95C at stock. The new Senketsu sat mostly unused due to this damage, and a planned trip to Atlanta became an excuse to pick up a Ryzen 7 1700 and begin work on Senketsu's permanent replacement. And then, last week, something unexpected happened...the motherboard was marked as fixed with a BIOS chip being the problem. Wait, what, a BIOS chip? Yeah, right. The board fries itself and a BIOS chip is why. It came back to me on Friday, and I was fully intending to drop in the 4790K, see that the board was unusable, then slap it on eBay as-is. That's when, to my great surprise, it POSTed right up. Not only that, but strapping in a hard drive with Linux Mint on it brought it right to life. On an extreme flyer, I plugged in a HDD with Windows 7 on it, and spent the next couple of hours surfing the web, doing occasional XTU runs and playing Rocket League. Eff me sideways with a lunchbox, that board was fine. But what does one do with an unexpected survivor of a board when you've already replaced it?

 

...let's build a HTPC!

 

The very idea of placing my Core V21 on the TV shelf was laughable. There's zero chance it would have fit. Also, the lack of a 5.25" drive bay meant no Blu-Ray player. Clearly, a new case was needed. Enter the Logisys CS136BK:

 

 

Why this case? Three reasons. One, it's a lightweight, compact little mini tower that will fit the space available to it. Two, it had been at the local Goodwill Electronics forever, and I'd had my eyes on it forever. In person, it doesn't look all that bad. And three, you get an awesome Molex fan and a bundled "480W" power supply!

 

 

 

...lol to both.

 

Seriously though, the fan looks like crap, and it's straight Molex. No three-pin, nothing. It might be unbearably loud, it might be shockingly silent. We'll never know, because out of the case and into the junk drawer it went.

 

And the power supply. Ah, the "power supply". 480W is in quotations above because, if you look at the label, it's actually a 330W power supply. Either that, or it's the world's only 480W PSU with no PCI-E connector and only a single Molex, meaning there is absolutely no way on God's green earth that this "480W" PSU can power any GPU needing additional juice. Not that anyone in their right mind would ever plug a GPU into this anyway.

 

Here's the part where I could rant about case manufacturers bundling shit-tier PSUs with their cases to make the deal more appealing. I got this case for the equivalent of $20 thanks to gift certificates. If you look around the interwebz, this case sells for anywhere from $33 to $50. At $33, some hapless builder is going to come along and go, "Wow, a case and a power supply for $30?! I'm gonna save so much money on this!". And then, in six months, their PSU explodes. Perhaps literally. The bundled PSU, Logisys' PS480D-BK, is riddled with reviews on Newegg saying that it died somewhere between "today" and "tomorrow", and that in many cases it took components with it. Ladies and gentlemen, you get what you pay for.

 

It's also worth noting that, on Newegg, this PSU goes for $20 and the case for $33, which could be extrapolated into the thought that Logisys only thinks this case is worth $13. I disagree, but we'll get there.

 

Oh, but the real third reason I wanted to use this case? The side vent supports up to a 200mm fan (in theory), and I've always wanted to do this:

 

 

Upon opening the right side panel, I was greeted with what looked to be a surprisingly roomy layout:

 

 

How much cable management room is there in back? Good question. I say good question because even though the back panel is clearly designed to be removable, mine is stuck. As in, it will not budge no matter what I do. Not a huge deal. There isn't really room for cable management back there anyway, and as much work as I do with prebuilts, I'm kind of used to only having one side panel to work with. Still, it speaks to the build quality of the case that the freaking back panel is permanently jammed on there.

 

Now, that power supply...

 

 

Normally, I'd go with something higher end for a 4790K, but there were three considerations here. One, I'm not overclocking this build. Two, I don't have anything nicer readily available. Three, for all that crap that EVGA white PSUs get around here, I've actually never had a problem with them, and these things are my go-to "I need a PSU right now," Best Buy grabs. Oh, and four, on a scale of Logisys PS480D-BK to ten, the 600W white is somewhere near a 40. So in it went. Next, the mobo.

 

There was an odd problem here, and this was a recurring issue with the case. The PSU screw holes didn't exactly line up with the PSU. I'll show you a picture of what I mean later, but the end result is that the PSU has 3 screws instead of 4. But, I mean, if you consider the $20 value of the PSU sitting on my desk, the case is pretty much free, right?

 

Now, I've had some weird experiences installing motherboards in my lifetime. This one is completely new, though. Take a look at the picture below and see if you can find the problem:

 

 

Notice how the backplate just does not fit. I kid you not, the backplate straight up does not fit the case. This isn't the backplate's fault. A quick run of the fingers around the backplate opening (which is refreshingly not sharp, btw) indicates that it is, in fact, cut crookedly. Seriously.

 

Cheap as hell case though, right?

 

 

And thus, the end result of wedging the mobo into place. The beQuiet Pure Rock Slim is a cooler I've used on Pentiums and locked i5s and i7s before. I'm curious to see how it does on a damaged 4790K that a Hyper T4 couldn't tame. Next up, I needed to gut the PC that the 4790K had previously moved into, Ghost:

 

 

Out of there, I needed the SSD, the HDD, the GTX 1060 (already removed) and the Wifi adapter.

 

...and the PSU?

 

 

...

 

 

Eff it, I'm taking the PSU.

 

 

Here's a picture to show you what I mean about the PSU screw holes not lining up. I thought maybe it was just an issue with the EVGA white unit, but nope. The holes are cut in the wrong places.

 

 

Great deal on the case though, right? Right?

 

I had initially sized up four holes on the bottom of the case for an 80mm fan to feed the GTX 1060 but a quick look back down there revealed that the holes weren't placed properly. But they were placed properly...for an SSD!

 

 

Score one for Logisys, finally! Oh, wait, never mind. They put in an SSD mount, which is cool, but they didn't actually leave enough room to plug in the SATA power cable. Nope, not kidding. The picture tells the tale. While there's a couple mm of room in front of the SSD mount, it's not enough to wedge a SATA power cable in. Because why would it be, right? But hey, great deal on the case!

 

Mounting the HDD was fun, as you can imagine from the picture below:

 

 

Had to remove the cooler and, because why not at this point, bend out the drive cage slightly to get it in there. Oh, and I had to mount it on an upper rack because, great move Logisys, putting a 3.5" HDD on the bottom rack of the drive cage will completely block your main ATX power connection.

 

Great deal on the case though, right?

 

Goddammit Logisys.

 

So the HDD had to come out, and by this point I had zero interest in removing the cooler again. How do we accomplish this?

 

 

Break off the cover for the bottom 3.5" external bay, that's how. Also, there's only one 3.5" drive bay opening on the case's front panel, so, yeah. Not sure what they had in mind there.

 

So with the HDD gone and the SSD moved up (meaning I have a total of 240GB of storage in this thing), it was time to focus on cooling. For that, an old friend: the Aerocool DS 120mm LED fan.

 

 

I love Aerocool DS fans. They make a nice, rushing sound from all the air being yanked through. The motor itself is basically silent. I've hooked a noise reduction cable up to this one because it's going to need to be quiet as a HTPC, but it will still, in my experience, move a ton of air.

 

I mean, as much air as it can when the only opening for air to enter the front of the case is a little 1/2" wide slit at the bottom of the front panel.

 

A Rosewill 80mm fan filled in the back, more because it's silent than because it's powerful. While installing the fan, I noticed something curious about the rear fan mount. See if you can figure it out.

 

 

See it? Look, I understand that when you're building a case to fit the $35-40 price point and including a "power supply", sacrifices have to be made to be made to get there. But, really? It was cost prohibitive to punch holes on all four f*cking sides of the f*cking fan mount?!

 

...great deal on the case though, right?

 

Goddammit Logisys.

 

So with the comedy of errors nearing its merciful conclusion, we turn to cable management.

 

 

...yeah, f*ck it.

 

 

It was about this time that I realized that the front panel audio cable doesn't actually reach the front panel audio connector on my motherboard. This is not a product of cable routing, it's not due to my layout, it's a problem that would be damn near universal. The f*cking front panel HD audio cable does not reach the f*cking front panel HD audio connector.

 

 

 

After everything was finally connected, except, you know, the front panel audio, it was time to turn this thing on. And that's when I realized that the top of the PCI-E slots was cut and rolled in such a way that you can't actually plug anything into the top port. No, seriously.

 

 

No signal from the GPU whatsoever. It's cool, I don't need a GPU. IT'S ONLY A F*CKING HOME THEATER F*CKING PERSONAL COMPUTER.

 

 

So down to the x8 slot it goes. I'm not worried about performance. I am worried about it going nuclear due to virtually zero airflow.

 

 

So with everything said and done, it's time to close it on up, install Windows and get Senketsu comfortable in his new house. Except, wait, are you shitting me? The case won't close with the 200mm fan in the side panel.

 

You mean the whole reason I got this case, the thing I'd always wanted to do with a case that I could finally do in an amazingly compact form factor, the one and only thing that made me pick this case over the Cooler Master sitting next to it, you're telling me that the f*cking side panel doesn't close with the f*cking case fan that's f*cking supported installed into it?!?!

 

 

So here's the end result:

 

 

 

And there ya go. Also, I randomly need a screwdriver to close the side panel now. I won't even pretend to know how that happened. But, I mean, at least it looks nice and nondescript, and ventilation won't be an issue.

 

One final insult from Logisys: the entire case flexes. Like, you know how tech reviewers always try to flex the side panel during case reviews? I can do that with the entire fully loaded case.

 

So, the verdict. Is this case worth your money? No. Like, no. Just no. I know that I've taken this case far beyond its limits. This thing was, no doubt, designed for a G4560 on a slim Micro ATX motherboard with a stock cooler and no graphics card. Logisys never intended it for this sort of build, and I get that. I probably have the only CS136BK in the world with an i7-4790K in it.

 

So what infuriates me most about this case? It's not that it comes with a "480W power supply" that artificially ups the price, even though a quick look at the PSU and its available connectors, not to mention its label, shows that this is actually a 330W PSU that, in practice, would probably struggle to even reach that number without exploding (24-pin, 4-pin CPU, 3 SATA, one Molex, floppy drive). It's not even that this thing is taken from shit materials and somehow made shittier. It's that everything about the assembly of this case is lazy. All the glaring QA problems, the shortcuts taken and the obvious oversights that show a clear lack of shits given when designing it, everything about this case screams laziness. I can deal with a shit case. I tear down prebuilts and rebuild them for fun. I'm used to shit cases. What I can't deal with is a case where the I/O shield doesn't fit, the side panel doesn't open, the SSD mount at the bottom of the case is unusable, the front panel audio cable doesn't reach the connector, the PSU mounting holes don't line up, the top PCI-E slot is unusable, the HDD mount is placed in such a way that it blocks the 24-pin ATX power connector and the whole case flexes. I can't forgive a company that decides, for whatever reason, to only punch fan mounting holes on two of the four corners. I was about to say that this case meets its price point by making too many compromises, but it doesn't. There has to be something good in exchange for something bad in order for a situation to be called a "compromise".

 

Would I recommend you go out and spend your hard-earned money on this case? No. Would I recommend you waste the gas needed to get to a nearby store that's giving them away? No. Not unless they pay you for gas. Do I think it's worth your time to walk next door because your neighbor wants to pay you $10 to take his brand new-in-box CS136BK out of his garage? Sure, but I think your time is valuable enough that you shouldn't bother building anything in it. The one and only redeeming value of this case is that I didn't lose any blood while building in it, and for a case at this price point with this many problems, that's impressive.

 

But hey, I mean, if I ever want to burn down a building, I've got a perfect little arson box for the job.

 

 

F*ck you, Logisys.

 

The end.

 

Finished build:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($337.49 @ OutletPC) 
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.1 CFM CPU Cooler  ($19.99 @ NCIX US) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-Z97MX-Gaming 5 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard 
Memory: Patriot - Viper 3 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($115.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Crucial - M500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($129.89 @ OutletPC) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB WINDFORCE OC 6G Video Card  ($429.99 @ Newegg Marketplace) 
Case: Logisys - CS136BK ATX Mid Tower Case w/480W Power Supply  ($32.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic - M12II 650W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply 
Optical Drive: LG - WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer  ($45.88 @ OutletPC) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($137.89 @ OutletPC) 
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link - TL-WDN4800 PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi Adapter  ($35.49 @ OutletPC) 
Case Fan: Rosewill - RFA-80-K 33.2 CFM  80mm Fan  ($5.99 @ Amazon) 
Case Fan: Aerocool - DS 120mm Red 81.5 CFM  120mm Fan  ($15.88 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $1307.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-06 11:48 EDT-0400

 

And one final question edited in later: does anyone know of a better cooling solution that won't require me to access the back of the motherboard?

[Guest]

This sounds like a rant letter by Austin from Game Theory.

[Hero7750]

Looks good but, this isnt an htpc

[aisle9]

Just now, Hero7750 said:

Looks good but, this isnt an htpc

HTPC is a designed purpose, not a specific stack of components. This is being plugged into the living room TV for 4k playback, replacing the Dell Vostro that's up there currently. Its designed purpose is an HTPC built from spare parts so, yeah, HTPC.

[dcgreen2k]

That was one heck of a rollercoaster ride you took us on!

[kaiju_wars]

Lol, nice.

Though for future reference, I'd recommend a cheap budget DIYPC case, have had no issues with those.

But I did laugh all the way through your experience.

[aisle9]

4 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

Lol, nice.

Though for future reference, I'd recommend a cheap budget DIYPC case, have had no issues with those.

But I did laugh all the way through your experience.

I have a DIYPC J21-BK (I think that's the model number, it's the epileptic seizure RGB case). I love the hell out of it, actually. Surprisingly solid for a case that cost me $28, and it looks spectacular.

[kaiju_wars]

3 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

I have a DIYPC J21-BK (I think that's the model number, it's the epileptic seizure RGB case). I love the hell out of it, actually. Surprisingly solid for a case that cost me $28, and it looks spectacular.

I've used both the DIYPC MA01-R and the DIYPC DIY-F2-O.  Love both of them.  The second is actually being used in my main build.

[19_blackie_73]

good writing 

[AshleyAshes]

36 minutes ago, Hero7750 said:

Looks good but, this isnt an htpc

'HTPC' isn't a form factor, it's a purpose.  It's a computer assembled for the purpose of living beside the TV with media playback being it's primary purpose, that's an HTPC.  IF you want to be picky, you can call it an UGLY HTPC, but it's still an HTPC.  I have an i7 3770K based HTPC in a full ATX box, it's all made of hand-me-down components work older workstations, it's still an HTPC even if it's not in some cute SFF box.

 

Similarly, if you take a desktop PC and stuff it in a corner to run headless and just run server applications, it's now a 'Server'.  It doesn't need to be in a rack or anything like that, it's a server because it serves.

[Theguywhobea]

Haha, a bundled 480w Logisys PSU fried my first motherboard!

[kaiju_wars]

6 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

'HTPC' isn't a form factor, it's a purpose.  It's a computer assembled for the purpose of living beside the TV with media playback being it's primary purpose, that's an HTPC.  IF you want to be picky, you can call it an UGLY HTPC, but it's still an HTPC.  I have an i7 3770K based HTPC in a full ATX box, it's all made of hand-me-down components work older workstations, it's still an HTPC even if it's not in some cute SFF box.

 

Similarly, if you take a desktop PC and stuff it in a corner to run headless and just run server applications, it's now a 'Server'.  It doesn't need to be in a rack or anything like that, it's a server because it serves.

This so much.

My old repurposed Dell Inspiron 660 with a Pentium G2020 now serves as my HTPC.  I stream YouTube, Louder with Crowder, and Netflix from it.  The occasional streaming of a steam game from my main setup.

That's it.

It's ugly, sure, but it gets the job done.

[AshleyAshes]

20 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

This so much.

My old repurposed Dell Inspiron 660 with a Pentium G2020 now serves as my HTPC.  I stream YouTube, Louder with Crowder, and Netflix from it.  The occasional streaming of a steam game from my main setup.

That's it.

It's ugly, sure, but it gets the job done.

Yup.  If it does the job, it's good.  And if it's unsightly, you could even just hide it somewhere.  Not that I don't like the look of SFF HTPCs that aesthetically fit in the home entertainment system better. But on the other hand, there's a certain utility in being able to use old components that won't fit in an SFF build.  For example, my workstations is a Hex Core 4930K with an ATX x79 mobo, by next fall that'll get hand-me-downed into the HTPC. (It ALSO runs Steam BPM for couch friendly gaming.) so using a large case will be an asset, cost wise, for that hand-me-down rebuild.

[aisle9]

Here's a question: anyone know of a better cooler than the beQuiet currently in there that doesn't require me to access the back of the motherboard?

 

*edit: added to OP

[kaiju_wars]

7 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Here's a question: anyone know of a better cooler than the beQuiet currently in there that doesn't require me to access the back of the motherboard?

 

*edit: added to OP

Sorry I don't.  I've always used stock coolers, and with the limited experience I do have overclocking, my old Hyper T2 with my 860K did just fine, and now with Rzyen, the Wraith coolers are good enough for at least a modest overclock.

[kaiju_wars]

18 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Yup.  If it does the job, it's good.  And if it's unsightly, you could even just hide it somewhere.  Not that I don't like the look of SFF HTPCs that aesthetically fit in the home entertainment system better. But on the other hand, there's a certain utility in being able to use old components that won't fit in an SFF build.  For example, my workstations is a Hex Core 4930K with an ATX x79 mobo, by next fall that'll get hand-me-downed into the HTPC. (It ALSO runs Steam BPM for couch friendly gaming.) so using a large case will be an asset, cost wise, for that hand-me-down rebuild.

Oh yeah.  Being honest though, I don't mind the looks of the Dell Inspirons SSF PCs.  
Plus this PC uses standard ATX connectors for the PSU, so I'll eventually swap it into something better and put one of my spare GPUs in there.  Also upgrade the RAM and CPU to like an i5 3550 or something.

[aisle9]

23 hours ago, Theguywhobea said:

Haha, a bundled 480w Logisys PSU fried my first motherboard!

I'm thinking about doing a series of "experiments" to see exactly what the Logisys PSU can handle before going pop. Problem is that I refuse to nuke any of my own hardware doing it. I'd have to acquire an old sh*tbox (Pentium D?) and an ancient high-power GPU...or just use the HD 4870 I have lying around, but that would be a sad end for a noble old warhorse that I just restored.

 

Or I could just plug the thing in, short it to life, then wait for it to catch fire. Shouldn't take long.