Iphone 8 will probably not have fingerprint scanner embedded in screen

[Shreyas1]

According to multiple sources, the iphone 8 will probably not have a fingerprint scanner in the home button. According to The Verge, a noted KGI apple analyst named Ming Chi Kuo suggested that the Iphone 8 will NOT have a fingerprint scanner in the oled display. 

Quote

While the second option is certainly the more intriguing one, a new report from KGI’s well known and oft-reliable Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo (via 9to5Mac) claims that while rumors of the new OLED iPhone featuring a full-screen bezel-less design are true, the device will feature a virtual home button without an integrated fingerprint sensor, just like the Galaxy S8. That said, Kuo’s report apparently doesn’t clarify whether or not the fingerprint sensor will just be entirely removed (as other rumors have suggested) or placed on the back of the device.

IMO, this is not the best place for a fingerprint scanner. I still think the best place would be where your hands are. There are also reports that apple may ditch the fingerprint scanner idea and go for facial recognition. According to Bloomberg

 

 

Apple Readies iPhone Overhaul

Quote

Apple Inc. is working on a feature that will let you unlock your iPhone using your face instead of a fingerprint. 

For its redesigned iPhone, set to go on sale later this year, Apple is testing an improved security system that allows users to log in, authenticate payments, and launch secure apps by scanning their face, according to people familiar with the product. This is powered by a new 3-D sensor, added the people, who asked not to be identified discussing technology that’s still in development. The company is also testing eye scanning to augment the system, one of the people said.

The sensor’s speed and accuracy are focal points of the feature. It can scan a user’s face and unlock the iPhone within a few hundred milliseconds, the person said. It is designed to work even if the device is laying flat on a table, rather than just close up to the face. The feature is still being tested and may not appear with the new device. However, the intent is for it to replace the Touch ID fingerprint scanner, according to the person. An Apple spokesman declined to comment.

In testing, the face unlock feature takes in more data points than a fingerprint scan, making it more secure than the Touch ID system, the person said. Apple introduced Touch ID in 2013 with the iPhone 5s for unlocking the phone and it added support for authenticating payments and logging into apps a year later. 

Apple is not the first to use different forms of biometric authentication. In its latest phones, Samsung included iris scanners that let users unlock their phones and make payments by scanning their eyes. Samsung’s feature on its Galaxy S8 smartphone launched to poor reviews as users were able to trick the sensor with printed photo copies of a person’s eyes. Apple’s sensor has 3-D depth perception, which means the system is less likely to be duped by 2-D pictures. Analysts at JPMorgan Chase & Co. and other firms said earlier this year that a 3-D sensor would likely be included in the next iPhone.

 

 

 

 

IMO if this is true, apple seems to be taking newer, supposedly better approaches to security. However, not many people have problems with the fingerprint scanner and it probably would be best left the way it was. I think this whole facial recognition thing is quite useless. Also many people probably wont like a company having pics of their face in apple's database. 

 

Sources:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-03/apple-said-to-test-3-d-face-scanning-to-unlock-next-iphone

 

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/7/3/15913566/iphone-8-fingerprint-sensor-in-display-rumor-kgi-ming-chi-kuo-report

 

EDIT: Here's a cool video of a dummy iPhone 8, though this does state that there may be a fingerprint scanner on that apple logo on the back.

 

 

[Matu20]

Whatever they decide, sheeple will still praise and worship their decision. Rational people need not apply.

[tlink]

2 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

KGI apple analyst

kill me.

[RedRound2]

The reason why they may abandon the fingerprint sensor is that they couldn't reportedly mass produce (and we're talking iPhone quantities) in screen fingerprint tech and also had other issues which made it inferior to the current 2nd gen touch ID like speed

 

Since they're going with a completely bezel less design this time around (offering highest screen to body ratio in the market), their only option would've been to place it in the back (which IMO is pain to authenticate when phone is lying flat, and while authenticating NFC payments) or the side where the reader wouldn't be very accurate due to it's rectangular button shape

 

They were planning on 3D facial recognition from the start along with touch ID, but now it seems they're only going with the former. It would have been cool to see an inscreen fingerprint tech, but I guess we have to wait another year

[79wjd]

13 minutes ago, Matu20 said:

Whatever they decide, sheeple will still praise and worship their decision. Rational people need not apply.

This never stops being ironic. 

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

The reason why they may abandon the fingerprint sensor is that they couldn't reportedly mass produce (and we're talking iPhone quantities) in screen fingerprint tech and also had other issues which made it inferior to the current 2nd gen touch ID like speed

 

Since they're going with a completely bezel less design this time around (offering highest screen to body ratio in the market), their only option would've been to place it in the back (which IMO is pain to authenticate when phone is lying flat, and while authenticating NFC payments) or the side where the reader wouldn't be very accurate due to it's rectangular button shape

 

They were planning on 3D facial recognition from the start along with touch ID, but now it seems they're only going with the former. It would have been cool to see an inscreen fingerprint tech, but I guess we have to wait another year

I've seen a lot of conflicting reports both for and against touch ID embedded in the screen. At this point we won't know until it launches, although I really hope they manage to get good enough yields.

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

Getting rid of finger print scanner would be stupid idea tbh.

If facial recognition (or whatever they replace it with) is equally accurate/secure/fool proof, then it wouldn't be terrible -- the only problem I would have is if I wanted to unlock it while it's on my desk. 

[Shreyas1]

27 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

 

 

They were planning on 3D facial recognition from the start along with touch ID, but now it seems they're only going with the former. It would have been cool to see an inscreen fingerprint tech, but I guess we have to wait another year

Remember how the Kinect for the Xbox one had to be always on? If Apple makes the facial recognition camera like that, there will be a LOT of backlash. I doubt some people would even allow facial recognition, as they wouldn't want their face in Apple's database.

[shermantanker]

29 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

This never stops being ironic. 

I've seen a lot of conflicting reports both for and against touch ID embedded in the screen. At this point we won't know until it launches, although I really hope they manage to get good enough yields.

Pretty much. There are many reports that say: A. under glass, B. Somewhere else, C. No scanner. My guess is they are testing all three, but it is still too early to pick one.

[Shreyas1]

Just now, Arokhantos said:

I's not that secure right now and i doubt it could be made more secure unless they added 3D stereo camera on the iphone to even detect depth and all.

I think they'll use an IR camera. Though, there are videos on YouTube that have iPhone dummy units with 4 cameras on the front.

 

 

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

Remember how the Kinect for the Xbox one had to be always on? If Apple makes the facial recognition camera like that, there will be a LOT of backlash. I doubt some people would even allow facial recognition, as they wouldn't want their face in Apple's database.

Presumably facial recognition wouldn't have to be always on -- just when the device is locked and you raise it or if NFC is active. There are still issues with facial recognition -- unlocking a device on a desk or using Apple Pay would become cumbersome.

 

Regardless, didn't Apple say they don't have your fingerprints and that they're only stored in the secure enclave on your phone? -- The same would be true with faces. And I don't know about other people, but I'd be more willing to give access to a picture of my face than my fingerprints. 

2 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

I's not that secure right now and i doubt it could be made more secure unless they added 3D stereo camera on the iphone to even detect depth and all.

Current implementations aren't that secure, but that was largely true with fingerprints as well iirc. And they could add dual cameras to the front. I kind of doubt that Apple would implement something that isn't equally secure considering how much Apple touted the security of TouchID and the Secure Enclave -- although it's a possibility. 

 

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, Shreyas1 said:

There are also reports that apple may ditch the fingerprint scanner idea and go for facial recognition

NO! 

[Shreyas1]

20 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

NO! 

I mean it's supposedly more secure, I don't see why not.

[Jito463]

Pair this with the patent that Facebook filed - to monitor your face, determine your mood and deliver appropriate ads based on said mood - and it's becoming seriously worrying (dare I say, scary?) to own a smart phone lately.

[tom_w141]

1 hour ago, Shreyas1 said:

There are also reports that apple may ditch the fingerprint scanner idea and go for facial recognition

So how is apple pay gonna work? I'm going to have to hold my face over the card reader too? Ridiculous, at the moment the fingerprint verification is fast, reliable and secure. No need to scrap it.

[Shreyas1]

10 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

So how is apple pay gonna work? I'm going to have to hold my face over the card reader too? Ridiculous, at the moment the fingerprint verification is fast, reliable and secure. No need to scrap it.

Apple will probably implement just the iris scan. Though I do agree that the fingerprint scanner is the way to go now that most smartphones are using it and it's becoming the norm. 

 

13 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Pair this with the patent that Facebook filed - to monitor your face, determine your mood and deliver appropriate ads based on said mood - and it's becoming seriously worrying (dare I say, scary?) to own a smart phone lately.

Remember that it's just a rumor though. But knowing Apple, it's probably true

[RedRound2]

57 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

Remember how the Kinect for the Xbox one had to be always on? If Apple makes the facial recognition camera like that, there will be a LOT of backlash. I doubt some people would even allow facial recognition, as they wouldn't want their face in Apple's database.

I'm quite sure that all your facial data would be stored in the Secure Enclave within the iphone itself.

56 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

I's not that secure right now and i doubt it could be made more secure unless they added 3D stereo camera on the iphone to even detect depth and all.

They are adding a stereo cam according to reports

 

One Advanatge of facial recognition over touch ID is that no one will be able to unlock your phone without your permission (unless forcefully of course) like while you're sleeping or if you're drugged or something like that

[79wjd]

17 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

One Advanatge of facial recognition over touch ID is that no one will be able to unlock your phone without your permission (unless forcefully of course) like while you're sleeping or if you're drugged or something like that

How is that different from touch ID?

[tom_w141]

19 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

Apple will probably implement just the iris scan

Same issue if I have to line my iris up with the card reader.

[RedRound2]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

How is that different from touch ID?

Anyone can lift your finger and put it on the home button while you're sleeping or drugged or something. A very specific situation but that's the only adavntage I can think of. I really wish they could somehow mangae to implement touch id, but recent reports from KGI and bloomberg makes it seem very unlikely

[Doobeedoo]

Though didn't Vivo demo such which uses Qualcomm tech.

https://www.kitguru.net/lifestyle/mobile/smartphone/damien-cox/qualcomm-show-off-its-new-under-display-fingerprint-sensor/

http://www.gsmarena.com/vivo_is_first_in_line_for_qualcomms_inscreen_fingerprint_readers-news-25876.php

 

Though I guess we'll see it in flagships when they're more mass production ready.

[79wjd]

Just now, RedRound2 said:

Anyone can lift your finger and put it on the home button while you're sleeping or drugged or something. A very specific situation but that's the only adavntage I can think of. I really wish they could somehow mangae to implement touch id, but recent reports from KGI and bloomberg makes it seem very unlikely

That's not any different than facial recognition though.

[suicidalfranco]

member when all the fanboys called windows hello a gimmick?

lmfao

[Jito463]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

Anyone can lift your finger and put it on the home button while you're sleeping or drugged or something. A very specific situation but that's the only adavntage I can think of. I really wish they could somehow mangae to implement touch id, but recent reports from KGI and bloomberg makes it seem very unlikely

Anyone can prop your eye open while drugged, in order to unlock your phone.  Iris ID is no more secure in that regard.

[Sauron]

2 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

The reason why they may abandon the fingerprint sensor is that they couldn't reportedly mass produce (and we're talking iPhone quantities) in screen fingerprint tech and also had other issues which made it inferior to the current 2nd gen touch ID like speed

 

Since they're going with a completely bezel less design this time around (offering highest screen to body ratio in the market), their only option would've been to place it in the back (which IMO is pain to authenticate when phone is lying flat, and while authenticating NFC payments) or the side where the reader wouldn't be very accurate due to it's rectangular button shape

 

They were planning on 3D facial recognition from the start along with touch ID, but now it seems they're only going with the former. It would have been cool to see an inscreen fingerprint tech, but I guess we have to wait another year

That's true, and I doubt anyone was going to base their purchase decision on this.

[RedRound2]

46 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

That's not any different than facial recognition though.

Dont we have to blink or something? iirc it doesnt work while youre sleeping

46 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Though didn't Vivo demo such which uses Qualcomm tech.

https://www.kitguru.net/lifestyle/mobile/smartphone/damien-cox/qualcomm-show-off-its-new-under-display-fingerprint-sensor/

http://www.gsmarena.com/vivo_is_first_in_line_for_qualcomms_inscreen_fingerprint_readers-news-25876.php

 

Though I guess we'll see it in flagships when they're more mass production ready.

For a modern day fingerprint sensor it was quite bad, slow and inaccurate even though qualcomm said it was ready. But yesterday KGI reported that qualcomm's solution didnt actually have a release date, implying that qualcomm was lying

44 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

member when all the fanboys called windows hello a gimmick?

lmfao

For the record I didnt, but I did call samungs a half ass solution when it can easily be tricked using a photo with contact lenses.

 

If apple's solution is as half baked, which I highly doubt, I would call out on them for abadoning a pretty secure and established solution for a shitty one

39 minutes ago, Sauron said:

That's true, and I doubt anyone was going to base their purchase decision on this.

Your point being?