The "New" Surface Pro

[79wjd]

Just now, mynameisjuan said:

Seeing how memory is stupid fucking expensive right now for no reason

It's not for no reason. The demand for DRAM/NAND is super high right now. 

[mynameisjuan]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

It's not for no reason. The demand for DRAM/NAND is super high right now. 

I know there is a demand and part of the reason is because smartphones, but memory should of not almost doubled in price since last summer

[79wjd]

Just now, mynameisjuan said:

I know there is a demand and part of the reason is because smartphones, but memory should of not almost doubled in price since last summer

Supply and demand. 

[Gaurav S Rao]

1 hour ago, Zando Bob said:

Nice! So its like an iPad Pro/MacBook Air killer? But does it have a dGPU?

Nope,The Surface Pro 5 only comes with a iGPU,no dedicated GPU,thank god or the price will be yelled at.

[GoodBytes]

Update!

The New Surface Pro (aka: Surface Pro 5) WILL HAVE USB Type-C... via a dongle, that connect on the charging port of the new Surface Pro.

This does mean, if you really need USB Type-C, that you can't charge your device and have it. The dongle will come later in the year.

 

But I have a feeling that Microsoft will release an updated dock station with USB Type-C on it.

 

No info on Thunderbolt 3 support (I doubt it).

https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-releasing-a-dongle-to-give-your-surface-usb-type-c

 

[Exprima]

I've been looking for a sub-$800 ultraportable laptop/tablet and the core M3 version was really enticing but it has not type-C port so Imma have to pass. I hate having to bring a separate cable to charge my laptop.

[NinerL]

$2,700 for the top model and no dedicated GPU

[captain_to_fire]

34 minutes ago, ResidentRad said:

I thought Apple was bad with accessory pricing and not including things, but this is special. They market it like a laptop. They tell you its for professional use. Don't include things you'd need. What a joke. 

It seems nowadays that the word "Pro" slapped to a tech product is a misnomer. The name "Surface Pro" should've been given to the current Surface Book and rename their detacable 2-in-1 PCs as just "Surface". 

 

Even if one of it's main target audience are college students jotting down notes, that 4GB of RAM will feel the pressure once a student opens up a couple of browser tabs, 10 open PDF files for scientific journals, some Excel files for math and an animation-ridden Power Point presentation. 

 

 

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, NinerL said:

$2,700 for the top model and no dedicated GPU

Ignoring the price. If you can fit one, go ahead. Intel CPUs aren't cheap, nor are PCIe 1TB SSDs, nor high capacity LPDDR3 RAM chips (instead of using many of them, but this last point, we need to see a teardown to confirm how many RAM chip it can handle)

[GoodBytes]

8 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

It seems nowadays that the word "Pro" slapped to a tech product is a misnomer. The name "Surface Pro" should've been given to the current Surface Book and rename their detacable 2-in-1 PCs as just "Surface". 

 

Even if one of it's main target audience are college students jotting down notes, that 4GB of RAM will feel the pressure once a student opens up a couple of browser tabs, 10 open PDF files for scientific journals, some Excel files for math and an animation-ridden Power Point presentation. 

 

 

Actually, the Surface Pro is aimed at Pro's. It is aimed at professionals who write notes, or draws. Students are buying it to write notes, because they seek for the best pen writing experience. Microsoft, and newly Samsung (with their Galaxy Book 10 and 12inch, yes it runs Windows 10), are the only ones that put serious tech for the pen. In addition, it is backed with models with serious performance (considering technological limitations).

 

The other OEMs aims at students (and the Galaxy Book 10), where they are powered by Core M or Atom (based on year), slower SSD, on most models they have a decent pen that will do the job for writing note. It doesn't use premium materials either, but the price is lower, and better fit for students who plans to write notes, use Office, surf the web, watch videos, do presentations, and so on.

 

Because the system has a lot of power. I used the Surface Pro 3 for school, and now work, and I see no real need to upgrade it. If I upgrade it right now, it is not because I really need it, more like "it is nice to get the better pen, the higher resolution and screen, and a bit faster SSD.

[captain_to_fire]

21 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

No info on Thunderbolt 3 support (I doubt it).

For a 2-in-1 detacable with core i5 and 4GB memory that costs $1000 in 2017 and has not implemented the latest I/O at the moment? No! They could've just ditched that dirt-magnet fabric material for a matte polycarbonate keyboard just like the SP4 and kept the type A USB and ditched the mini display port for Thunderbolt 3 via type C. If Microsoft is stubbornly ignoring Thunderbolt 3, they might as well use AMD Ryzen APUs which has no Thunderbolt 3 support.

15 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Ignoring the price. If you can fit one, go ahead. Intel CPUs aren't cheap, nor are PCIe 1TB SSDs, nor high capacity LPDDR3 RAM chips

I don't think Microsoft is targeting people with lower incomes anyway. They could've easily added a gtx 960M for the top of the line i7 variant.

[Gaurav S Rao]

A i7 with iGPU (no dGPU) doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me,Acer fit a GTX 1080 in their Predator Triton 700,why cant New Surface Pro (aka.Surface Pro 5) include something better than Intel HD Graphics.And they just skipped the i3 model,what a lot would we waiting for,a Core m3 is as powerful as a Celeron (afaik,i could be wrong) while they can fit a powerhungry i7 in it,why not a i3,Yes,it would be more power efficient,but why would someone get a laptop with a m3 when the same laptop with same battery,etc can be preinstalled with a i7.If I were to buy one I would buy the i5 model since thats the most balanced with Graphics and CPU horsepower,Core m3 is way to underpower in CPU (proabaly GPU too,idk) and $200 (what ark says,OEM would be cheaper) at 1 GHz Dual-Core that turbo's upto 2.6 GHz which is dual-core with Intel HD Graphics 615 (better than a Pentium cpu,look at price)

[79wjd]

11 minutes ago, Gaurav S Rao said:

A i7 with iGPU (no dGPU) doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me,Acer fit a GTX 1080 in their Predator Triton 700,why cant New Surface Pro (aka.Surface Pro 5) include something better than Intel HD Graphics.

Not everyone wants or needs a dGPU. A dGPU is a turn off for me as I don't need GPU power for anything I do on my laptop. 

Quote

Yes,it would be more power efficient,but why would someone get a laptop with a m3 when the same laptop with same battery,etc can be preinstalled with a i7.

Because they don't need more CPU performance and would rather have better battery life. 

[The Benjamins]

56 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Very nice! Also the new covers are the new keyboard colors they are going with are the same as the Surface Laptop.

 

The pen is a nice upgrade. Samsung has just recently released a Galaxy Book 12. This is a serious competitor. It has a pen that is really impressive compared to the Pro 4 pen, same form factor, 3:2 aspect ratio, and everything, and the price is about the same for similar specs. It does have a lower screen resolution a bit, but powered by color calibrated OLED panel, It does have USB Type-C, 2 of them! But, ONLY USB Type-C (what's with manufcatures doing All in or nothing? Is it that hard to have 1x USB Type-C and 1x USB Type A?), No mag-safe style power connector sadly. Keyboard is good, but not as good as the Surface Pro 4 keyboard, trackpad are comparable. LTE option exist. It uses Wacom pen technology. As for the kickstand... well, this is the big downer. they use a keyboard cover with an origami type of cover thing. Very annoying, and not very solid.

 

Can't wait to see how thi new updated pen fairs.

I personally don't need the type cover and love the stand, which is sad to see that Samsung tablet not have a integrated stand. a fast response time pen would be nice for my GF to play osu on it.

[GoodBytes]

1 minute ago, hey_yo_ said:

For a 2-in-1 detacable with core i5 and 4GB memory that costs $1000 in 2017 and has not implemented the latest I/O at the moment? No!  They could've just ditched that dirt-magnet fabric material for a matte polycarbonate keyboard just like the SP4 and kept the type A USB and ditched the mini display port for Thunderbolt 3 via type C. If Microsoft is stubbornly ignoring Thunderbolt 3, they might as well use AMD Ryzen APUs which has no Thunderbolt 3 support.

Oh yea? Show me a competing product? I see none that isn't close in price for the same specs. You are looking at ultrabooks, and comparing things. System that are larger, doesn't have pen, no touch screen, not convertible, has more space to do things. Might as well compare it to laptop like the Inspiron series.

 

Thunderbolt 3 is a separate chip, until Intel integrates it in its CPU or mobile chipset, or reduce the chip size and reduce wiring needed, somehow, or has more integrated content in the CPU or chipset to free up system board space, or battery tech comes along to allow to remain the same battery life but have more free space, this will not come. Not to mention that:

1. You will not use it in any case
2. You would not be interested to actually use it, considering the cost of external GPU box, and the performance degradation that you are getting due to the limited bandwidth. Thunderbolt 4 would be far more intresting
3. Microsoft doesn't try to be price competitive. It doesn't want to be price competitive. It wants to have enough revenue and profit to justify the experimentation, and daring moves: Surface Pro, Surface Book, Surface Studio are all daring moves, and nothing is mass target product. The Pro is, probably by accident. But how many do you think will buy a Surface Studio? Surface Book is also costly. If you are not an artist, or need that dedicated GPU for your work with the pen, then there is no point in it. The Surface Laptop is the most mass market device Microsoft ever made... and it runs Windows 10 S and pricey, to not enter in OEM sector. We will see if it will be a success or just a reference design to highlight Windows 10 S.

 

1 minute ago, hey_yo_ said:

I don't think Microsoft is targeting people with lower incomes anyway. They could've easily added a gtx 960M for the top of the line 17 variant.

If you can make it fit, go ahead. Looking at the Pro 4 tear down, I don't see empty space.

 

 

[Tieox]

But no RGB? 

[mynameisjuan]

6 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

 

If you can make it fit, go ahead. Looking at the Pro 4 tear down, I don't see empty space.

 

 

 

I still dont understand why people think you can fit everything in the form factor and on top of that have great thermal management. This isnt including more ports, thunderbolt chip, better cooling or anything else that people are asking to pack into an already compact format.

 

I mean hell, the surfacebook needed its dGPU in the dock and even then it wasnt a top of the line GPU mostly because of thermals. 

[GoodBytes]

5 minutes ago, Kierax said:

But no RGB? 

It has RGB keyboard cover. You can swap keyboard covers with the color you want

[captain_to_fire]

21 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

You will not use it in any case

Thunderbolt 3 allows native support for dual 4K 60 Hz monitors. I'm sure 4K monitors will just keep getting cheaper in the years to come. Also, if a device with Thunderbolt 3 is connected to a monitor that uses Thunderbolt 3, it can also charge the device without the need of the charger.

Data and charging in all one cable without the need of separate docks that are expensive.

21 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Thunderbolt 4 would be far more intresting

We're talking about what's available now. It's kinda like a smartphone OEM releasing a flagship phone nowadays and don't support 4G LTE which is ubiquitous and say it's fine just to have 3G and wait for 5G later on. While 3G is still perfectly usable, LTE is just a fair expectation to flagship phones. Same goes for computers, the best available I/O at the moment is a fair expectation for mobile computers at that price.

21 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

You will not use it in any case

I'm sure someone will. You're basically justifying Microsoft's deficiency here.

21 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Thunderbolt 3 is a separate chip

Yes I know and for the n^th time, Thunderbolt 3 controllers aren't expensive. https://ark.intel.com/products/series/87742/Thunderbolt-3-Controllers

[The Benjamins]

13 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Thunderbolt 3 allows native support for dual 4K 60 Hz monitors. I'm sure 4K monitors will just keep getting cheaper in the years to come.

Thunderbolt uses DP for video output and the surface has a DP port (not sure what version) but it can do 4k 60hz and if it is DP 1.3 or 1.4 it can do dual 4k 60hz screens.

 

I think no TB3 sucks but not a deal breaker, but they should of replaced the DP port for a USB C port.

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

should of

"Should HAVE"

"Should of" doesn't make sense

 

Sorry

 

 

Not sorry
 

 

[The Benjamins]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

"Should HAVE"

"Should of" doesn't make sense

 

Sorry

  Hide contents

 

Not sorry
 

 

I like it when people correct me, I have dyslexia and I don't always proof read when I post.

[GoodBytes]

33 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Thunderbolt 3 allows native support for dual 4K 60 Hz monitors. I'm sure 4K monitors will just keep getting cheaper in the years to come. Also, if a device with Thunderbolt 3 is connected to a monitor that uses Thunderbolt 3, it can also charge the device without the need of the charger.

As mentioned by @The Benjamins, Thunderbolt uses DisplayPort. The Surface Pro line, from model 1 to this one, has mini-DisplayPort, Starting with the Pro 4, 4K 60Hz with Intel integrated graphics finally supporting it (for the U series)

 

Quote

Data and charging in all one cable without the need of separate docks that are expensive.

The system has 1 magnetic dock/power-only connector, USB Type-A and Mini DisplayPort. Magnetic connector is more valuable then a USB Type-C.

 

Quote

We're talking about what's available now. It's kinda like a smartphone OEM releasing a flagship phone nowadays and don't support 4G LTE which is ubiquitous and say it's fine just to have 3G and wait for 5G later on. While 3G is still perfectly usable, LTE is just a fair expectation to flagship phones.

LTE, mass number of people will use it, and it is a high priority. Thunderbolt 3 is still not.

 

Quote

Same goes for computers, the best available I/O at the moment is a fair expectation for mobile computers at that price.

Computer cases still don't have USB Type-C, and we are in 2017, and so far, no case manufactures knows how to do precision cut and alignment of USB Type-A ports. It is apparently rocket science, while many OEMs have no problem doing this.

 

Quote

I'm sure someone will. You're basically justifying Microsoft's deficiency here.

Yes I know and for the n^th time, Thunderbolt 3 controllers aren't expensive. https://ark.intel.com/products/series/87742/Thunderbolt-3-Controllers

I am not justifying anything, this is the reality of thing. Would you like to pay 100$ more your system, to please that 1 person that MIGHT use it for 30min?

 

The controller is cheap yes.. but not the royalty fees. Not the R&D to include the chip. Nor playing with space time continuum to allow more room in the device for it, 'cause you have none for it (don't forget the wiring traces). Sure, you can reduce battery life, but last I checked, when manufactures do this, people complain like crazy for the reduction in battery life (see Apple).

 

If people here had to choose between battery life and thunderbolt 3 that will never use... 99.99% of people would vote for battery life.

 

 

The problem is that you want Thunderbolt 3 for brag rights and not for actually need. You are willing to scarifies thermals or/and battery life, or device size, just because you can say to people "Yea it has Thunderbolt 3!", and the person you are talking too will go "Oh that is nice!" and in their head "What is this thunder mencher bolt thing?! What does it do?".

[Scruffy90]

No mention of LTE on the site for the model releasing in june. No Pen, No keyboard included at the same price as older ones.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

Magnetic connector is more valuable then a USB Type-C.

I disagree with you there. I think both are equally valuable -- having a magnetic charger is great, but so is having a ubiquitous charge port that can also be used for other connectivity.