MicroSoft is actively blocking W7/8/8.1 Windows Updates on KabyLake and Ryzen systems

[zMeul]

5 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

-

yes but at the same time, not quite

buying from random sellers on e-bay is not valid in the eyes of MS, MS has authorized licence distributors and only licences bought from them (or MS directly) are valid - if MS gets a whiff your licence wasn't purchased from an authorized distributor they can invalidate that licence on the spot; this includes keys bought from reddit/G2A and other similar shady places

 

OEM licences are not to be sold to the end-user; I do not know what's the latest policy but OEMs could be paired with certain HW components

[Mooshi]

I wiah Windows 10 did this with Skylake. I love my pc randomly restarting itself without my go ahead. /s

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

18 minutes ago, zMeul said:

buying from random sellers on e-bay is not valid in the eyes of MS, MS has authorized licence distributors and only licences bought from them (or MS directly) are valid - if MS gets a whiff your licence wasn't purchased from an authorized distributor they can invalidate that licence on the spot; this includes keys bought from reddit/G2A and other similar shady places

The licenses on Reddit, G2A and the like are indeed either second-hand or just plain illegal, so cracking down on those makes perfect sense.

 

As for the license distributors, again no.  There's volume licensing and sales to OEMs (which is all that the actual "license distributors" do), but the sale of individual retail and systembuilder copies is something entirely different.  distributors buy those in bulk from Microsoft and sell them on to local distributors or to individual stores.  There's no way for Microsoft to say that a license bought in store A is valid but one bought at store B isn't. 

 

True, Ebay is a slightly grey area indeed.  The main reason I linked it is because I'm too lazy to find stores with English sites that still sell retail 7/8.1 licenses.

 

[Curufinwe_wins]

Yeah... good for MS.

 

There I said it. Sue me.

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, Captain Chaos said:

There's no way for Microsoft to say that a license bought in store A is valid but one bought at store B isn't. 

that is factually not correct

I worked as reseller and every seller in the chain is to be certified/authorised my MS

there is a trail of paperwork behind every licence sold and they can track where it leads

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

5 minutes ago, zMeul said:

I worked as reseller and every seller in the chain is to be certified/authorised my MS

In that case they can revoke 99.99% of the retail licenses.

[zMeul]

Just now, Captain Chaos said:

In that case they can revoke 99.99% of the retail licenses.

why ?!?!

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

3 minutes ago, zMeul said:

why ?!?!

Because big stores like Media Markt, Alternate etc (to name just a few of the big ones here) and all the small PC repair stores are NOT certified or athorized.  Such stores are where the vast majority of licenses are bought.

 

You are aware that I'm talking retail, right?  Not OEM. 

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Because big stores like Media Markt, Alternate etc

I do not know who those are

but they should have a MS certified individual in the chain somewhere, otherwise certified through one of the OEMs or by MS directly

[sgloux3470]

16 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

because they are only doing this to move people to windows 10. 

While Microsoft hasn't exactly made it a secret that they want to stop supporting five different versions of the OS at a time, the fact remains that Kaby Lake and Ryzen have no official support from AMD or Intel for Windows 7/8 either.

 

 

[leadeater]

13 minutes ago, zMeul said:

I do not know who those are

but they should have a MS certified individual in the chain somewhere, otherwise certified through one of the OEMs or by MS directly

Really depends on exactly what we are talking about, retail store selling a computer or selling a retail license as there is a big difference.

 

41 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Because big stores like Media Markt, Alternate etc (to name just a few of the big ones here) and all the small PC repair stores are NOT certified or athorized.  Such stores are where the vast majority of licenses are bought.

 

You are aware that I'm talking retail, right?  Not OEM. 

If you want to sell a retail license you must be a Microsoft Partner as @zMeul said above. However if you are a retail store selling OEM computers from Dell/HP etc they have nothing to do with licensing at all.

 

For selling retail OEM computers you can still track the license as it's tied to the computer and there is a supply chain record of that, in the context of large brands like Dell/HP etc. System builders are a little less controlled and tracked but that is not a Microsoft issue that just how it goes for smaller operations, but you can tie the license to that system builder from Microsoft's point of view (for auditing). System builders need to be Microsoft Partners or they buy retail licenses from an authorized partner.

 

If we go back to the original discussion that started this most keys being sold on ebay/G2A etc are keys from MSDN subscriptions or from Academic Alliance/DreamSpark/Imagine. They are either stolen or someone just illegally on-selling a key they no longer want or need.

[Whispre]

9 hours ago, samcool55 said:

 Linux is still catching up.

 

Been hearing people say that for 20 years... when exactly do they plan to finish this "catching up" process??

 

 

[Droidbot]

13 minutes ago, Whispre said:

 

Been hearing people say that for 20 years... when exactly do they plan to finish this "catching up" process??

 

 

Death of X.Org. 

[zMeul]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Really depends on exactly what we are talking about, retail store selling a computer or selling a retail license as there is a big difference.

when they sell a computer it's on the OEM's head that licence, and in most cases is an OEM licence attached to the "product"

[imreloadin]

3 hours ago, Whispre said:

 

Been hearing people say that for 20 years... when exactly do they plan to finish this "catching up" process??

 

 

As soon as enough people get tired of Microsoft's shit and move to Linux which will in turn prompt more support from software developers to make their programs cross-platform.

 

Linux's problem has always been a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" scenario as major software companies don't want to develop for/support Linux as there isn't a large user base but people don't want to switch because their favorite programs aren't supported on it.

[zMeul]

 

[Master Disaster]

11 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

 

I indeed have never worked in retail computing (only repair and systembuilding), but you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. 

 

Licensed retailer =/= licensing reseller, so that link has nothing to do with the paragraph above it.  Licensing resellers do volume licencing, they don't sell retail or even OEM copies.  

 

There isn't even such a thing as a "licensed retailer" or a "Microsoft certified retailer".  Retail copies of Windows can be sold in any store without a time limit (of course within EoL limits, MS of course doesn't have to provide support if you buy an unused retail copy of XP Home Edition today).  Microsoft just isn't providing new keys anymore when they stop selling the OS, but the ones that are out there are still valid until the end of extended support.

 

OEM copies can be sold anywhere too, but of course those may only be used by systembuilders for installation on PCs that get sold to customers.  Still, no limitation as to where those copies may be bought from.  Of course no systembuilder is going to put Win7 or 8.1 on Kaby systems anymore at this point, but people are still asking for it and it's getting annoying to have to explain time and time again that it's a bad idea because MS decided to be a bunch of pricks.  

 

Seeing as you mention making phone calls to MS, you also seem to be confusing "updates, bug fixes and patches for vulnerabilities" OS support with "My fresh Windows install doesn't want to activate" customer support. 

Me thinks you should actually click the link and READ what it says before you comment on it, it will save you the embarrassment of making yourself look stupid.

 

On the page I lined to there are 4 large square boxes, each box points out a specific scenario that is covered by the program, those 4 points are

1) Volume Licensing

2) Cloud Computing

3) Retail Licensing

4) OEM Licensing

 

I won't bother going into any more detail because @zMeul has already covered it more than adequately.

 

Now onto your second point, I'm not confusing anything. Its you that is confused. You see Microsoft class updates as support so in the case of MS ringing them up for help and having your OS download updates from their servers are in fact the same thing, they are all covered by your license agreement under the Support Clause. In case your doubting this to be a fact think of what MS do when a product reaches end of support. They stop offering any phone support for the product (though they do maintain legacy web support articles) and they stop offering updates for the product. That is because they class tech support and updates as the same thing.

 

When you spent 7 years of your life working in a micro computer shop dealing with MS and their policies and procedures almost every day you get very familiar with the way they operate. I was the person who had to deal the the MS rep coming out to the shop at east once a year to validate our verified seller agreement was being complied with, I was the one ringing them multiple times a day on behalf of customers who were having issues with their machines that we couldn't resolve and I was the one reading their ToS and EULA to make sure what they were telling me was the truth. I can tell you this much, for all the shittery MS pull on the general public they are actually very good at dealing with partners and support requests. The support staff are generally very friendly and very quick to try and resolve an issue for a business customer. I haven't worked in that shop for 4 years now and I can still recite you the MS toll free tech support number for the UK from memory (0800 0188354)

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, Arokhantos said:

People payed for windows you better support it or give them free upgrade, honestly i don't see why even should need to pay for windows 10 just make it a free service already, but paying for it should give the ability to disable everything we hate.

That's not how it works, you didn't pay for Windows at all, you paid for a license to use Windows and if you decide to operate your copy outside of that license agreement then you forfeit your right to receive support from them.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Wow that video by Barnacules is hot sauce. 

[MoraisGT]

11 hours ago, Whispre said:

 

Been hearing people say that for 20 years... when exactly do they plan to finish this "catching up" process??

 

 

When people get their heads out of their asses and stop putting up with bullshit like this.

 

Just because you're used to something that doesn't mean there isn't an alternative to it.

 

 

People don't use Linux because it's not widely supported, and companies don't support it because few people use it.... see the problem?

 

People automatically dismiss Linux as an alternative to Windows where in most cases it would be almost a perfect substitute. It's sad....

[jmababa]

That is why Im sticking to Rhyzen 5 1600X my rig right now 

[vorticalbox]

On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 11:02 AM, Master Disaster said:

Really? My ISP tell me they won't offer me any support if I don't use their router, I binned their router within a week. If I ring them up and they refuse to give me support is that my fault or theirs?

 

Updates are offered by Microsoft to users who are within a valid license and are eligible for support, having an unsupported processor means your not eligible for support.

 

It does suck but you can't say they didn't warn you about it.

but we weren't warned, kaby lake has been out for a while and was still getting updates, ryzen has been in the news for months and Microsoft said nothing. Then one day they decide to block updates for both. 

 

they sure has hell didn't warn anyone. 

[Guest Darth Revan]

I've read a couple of comments outside this forum, and I can't believe how stupid people are. I mean I know most people are stupid, but I didn't know they were that stupid.

People are actually defending Micro$oft for this move. Saying it's fantastic, that win7 was garbage anyway and people are just being paranoid for being win10 spies on them.

 

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, jmababa said:

That is why Im sticking to Rhyzen 5 1600X my rig right now 

What makes you think an R5 will be treated any differently?

9 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

but we weren't warned, kaby lake has been out for a while and was still getting updates, ryzen has been in the news for months and Microsoft said nothing. Then one day they decide to block updates for both. 

 

they sure has hell didn't warn anyone. 

They did say from the beginning that KL wouldn't be supported and then everyone was surprised to see it getting updates.

[vorticalbox]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

What makes you think an R5 will be treated any differently?

They did say from the beginning that KL wouldn't be supported and then everyone was surprised to see it getting updates.

Not support is not the same as "blocking every single update", not releasing patches for problems sure, it's not supported but to remove all updates for software and hardware that are supported is outright wrong to do.