Another Operating system quietly dies - Solaris.

[Droidbot]

4 minutes ago, samiscool51 said:

what about android?

it's built on... wait for it..... wait for it.....

JAVA.

 

and that's why Android, while being an amazing experience, is insecure as hell. 

You should work for Oracle, be one of their lawyers, sue Google and get a hell of a payout /s

[NoRomanBatmansAllowed]

4 minutes ago, samiscool51 said:

what about android?

it's built on... wait for it..... wait for it.....

JAVA.

What about, what about the thing that java is programmed in, that's also so much more efficient?

it's built on... wait for it..... wait for it.....

C AND C++.

[Sniperfox47]

32 minutes ago, samiscool51 said:

what about android?

it's built on... wait for it..... wait for it.....

JAVA.

Umm no. Just no. While technically correct you're also very very wrong.

 

Android is based on Dalvik. While yes, they both use similar bytecode compiled from the same language (the Java language) the virtual machine that processes that byte code is entirely different.

 

And Art is a whole other beast yet, being designed basically from the ground up to take slow Dalvik code and dynamically recompile it into native x86/ARM Linux binaries. (Edit: just for clarity, the latest iteration of ART is all three of a JIT interpreter, Static compiler, and Dynarec, not just a Dynarec)

 

While yes, Android Software is written in the Java language, it's in no way based on actual Java in terms of the virtual machine itself.

[samiscool51]

34 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

You should work for Oracle, be one of their lawyers, sue Google and get a hell of a payout /s

read and weep.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/google-wins-trial-against-oracle-as-jury-finds-android-is-fair-use/

also maybe the artical should be renamed to another operating system bites the dust

[patrickjp93]

1 hour ago, samiscool51 said:

what about android?

it's built on... wait for it..... wait for it.....

JAVA.

Except it's not. It's built on C/C++ the same as way every flavor of Linux is. Just because it has a rich native API doesn't mean it's built out of Java.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, samiscool51 said:

read and weep.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/google-wins-trial-against-oracle-as-jury-finds-android-is-fair-use/

also maybe the artical should be renamed to another operating system bites the dust

Quote

Android operating system does not infringe Oracle-owned copyrights because its re-implementation of 37 Java APIs is protected by "fair use." The verdict was reached after three days of deliberations.

 

1 hour ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Umm no. Just no. While technically correct you're also very very wrong.

 

Android is based on Dalvik. While yes, they both use similar bytecode compiled from the same language (the Java language) the virtual machine that processes that byte code is entirely different.

 

And Art is a whole other beast yet, being designed basically from the ground up to take slow Dalvik code and dynamically recompile it into native x86/ARM Linux binaries. (Edit: just for clarity, the latest iteration of ART is all three of a JIT interpreter, Static compiler, and Dynarec, not just a Dynarec)

 

While yes, Android Software is written in the Java language, it's in no way based on actual Java in terms of the virtual machine itself.

 

So the article basically confirmed what @Sniperfox47 said... 37 API's isn't a lot either.

[Fetzie]

3 hours ago, Droidbot said:

and that's why Android, while being an amazing experience, is insecure as hell. 

You should work for Oracle, be one of their lawyers, sue Google and get a hell of a payout /s

The reason that Android has so many vulnerabilities is that the handset manufacturers and carriers can each decide whether the handset should get the next android update. There are still millions of devices out there that are technically compatible with android 5 and 6 but are stuck on 3 and 4, and thus missed out on the security updates.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Also Java the programming language does not necessarily mean the Java Virtual Machine. It's like saying C# and .NET are the same thing. They're not.

 

Often it's not Java that's the problem (because it's a programming language). It's the VM Oracle provides that's crap.

[Droidbot]

1 minute ago, Fetzie said:

The reason that Android has so many vulnerabilities is that the handset manufacturers and carriers can each decide whether the handset should get the next android update. There are still millions of devices out there that are technically compatible with android 5 and 6 but are stuck on 3 and 4, and thus missed out on the security updates.

It's pretty much Windows XP over again. 

Except this time, your carrier controls it. In Australia, all of our carriers suck total ass. 

This is why I buy Nexus/OnePlus devices off contract and then sign a 12mo SIM only contract.

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

5 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

It's pretty much Windows XP over again.

It doesn't help that people are dumb and just download and use whatever app they think is good. And they don't question why a calculator app needs your contact info, your personal data, access to your files, and all that.

[patrickjp93]

13 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Also Java the programming language does not necessarily mean the Java Virtual Machine. It's like saying C# and .NET are the same thing. They're not.

 

Often it's not Java that's the problem (because it's a programming language). It's the VM Oracle provides that's crap.

It doesn't help that Microsoft itself bundles C#/.Net into one word in its training manuals and even made the web programming library share the same name...

 

14 minutes ago, Fetzie said:

The reason that Android has so many vulnerabilities is that the handset manufacturers and carriers can each decide whether the handset should get the next android update. There are still millions of devices out there that are technically compatible with android 5 and 6 but are stuck on 3 and 4, and thus missed out on the security updates.

Eh... Sorry but Javascript is just a cut down version of Java, and every vulnerability in JS can be found in Java. It just takes some effort.

 

[Rohime]

3 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

That's because IBM actually gives a damn about keeping it up to date with Linux.

I disagree - AIX is surviving mainly because IBM pimp it to their Outsource Customers.

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, samiscool51 said:

what about android?

it's built on... wait for it..... wait for it.....

JAVA.

 

[Fetzie]

9 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

It doesn't help that Microsoft itself bundles C#/.Net into one word in its training manuals and even made the web programming library share the same name...

 

Eh... Sorry but Javascript is just a cut down version of Java, and every vulnerability in JS can be found in Java. It just takes some effort.

 

And how are those vulnerabilities fixed? By the software updates, that carriers and manufacturers refuse to make available because they want to sell more phones and contracts.

 

You can't lay the blame for security issues solely on the java that runs on Android (especially as it is nothing other than Linux underneath, which is written in C and C++). Quite a lot of the blame lies at the feet of Vodafone, t-mobile, at&t, Samsung, LG et al.

 

Fixes come pretty quickly from Google, but it can take months to get it through the carriers and manufacturers because of the way in which they integrate updates into the OS.

[patrickjp93]

12 minutes ago, Rohime said:

I disagree - AIX is surviving mainly because IBM pimp it to their Outsource Customers.

Right, and being the chief OS in use on their supercomputers, AI clusters, and high speed trading boxes has NOTHING to do with it...

[patrickjp93]

8 minutes ago, Fetzie said:

And how are those vulnerabilities fixed? By the software updates, that carriers and manufacturers refuse to make available because they want to sell more phones and contracts.

 

You can't lay the blame for security issues solely on the java that runs on Android (especially as it is nothing other than Linux underneath, which is written in C and C++). Quite a lot of the blame lies at the feet of Vodafone, t-mobile, at&t, Samsung, LG et al.

 

Fixes come pretty quickly from Google, but it can take months to get it through the carriers and manufacturers because of the way in which they integrate updates into the OS.

No, a number of them are built into the design of the language itself and CANNOT be updated away without making breaking changes to Java. It's a bit late for that.

[Fetzie]

2 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

No, a number of them are built into the design of the language itself and CANNOT be updated away without making breaking changes to Java. It's a bit late for that.

That applies to software written in any language though. Or you have legacy code like the control panel in Windows that nobody wants to touch in case it breaks everything.

[patrickjp93]

6 minutes ago, Fetzie said:

That applies to software written in any language though. Or you have legacy code like the control panel in Windows that nobody wants to touch in case it breaks everything.

Sorry but that's not an excuse for a language where most of the control is not in the programmer's hands. It's in the hands of a few tens of programmers counted among the best in the world who maintain the language, its API, its ABI, and its compiler & toolchain. You don't see C++ programs being security problems. You see some C programs having issues, but that's because EVERYONE has to write his or her own secure network handlers (the open source ones are all garbage and out of date so badly they don't recognize Kerberos or OpenAuth). You see PLENTY of Java programs having security problems every year. And Javascript continues to plague even GOOGLE CHROME!

 

I'm sorry, but the truth is you can in fact design a language to be anti-security, and Oracle has succeeded with Java and contributed more than its fair share of nastiness to JavaScript.

[AlTech]

Good.

[Murasaki]

9 hours ago, kelvinhall05 said:

What is Solaris?

Some Polish bus manufacturer. 

[AlTech]

3 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

 

the GUI and apps use Java but that itself is too much and is just bad planning.

[AlTech]

3 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

It doesn't help that people are dumb and just download and use whatever app they think is good. And they don't question why a calculator app needs your contact info, your personal data, access to your files, and all that.

yeah, the JVM sucks.

[Sniperfox47]

22 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

yeah, the JVM sucks.

...*facepalm*...

 

Android does not use the JVM... It doesn't even use an alternative like the OpenJDK VM. The Dalvik virtual machine is not JVM.

 

Modern Android doesn't even use DVM anymore though. ART is absolutely nothing like JVM, other than providing hooks for some of the same APIs.

[Castdeath97]

8 hours ago, samiscool51 said:

and java....

apart from that nothing else....

They didn't, that was Sun Microsystems.

[suicidalfranco]

7 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

the GUI and apps use Java

Quote

Android Runtime (ART) is an application runtime environment used by the Android operating system. Replacing Dalvik, which is the process virtual machine originally used by Android, ART performs the translation of the application's bytecode into native instructions that are later executed by the device's runtime environment. [...] Unlike Dalvik, ART introduces the use of ahead-of-time (AOT) compilation by compiling entire applications into native machine code upon their installation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Runtime