University of California Riot Over Free-Speech

[Guest Kloaked]

http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/02/01/protesters-gather-uc-berkeley-milo-show-police-helicopters-appear/

 

 

 

 

Before someone yells at "lol Breitbart", I know. I know.

 

Again, I know..

 

You can look this up anywhere right now just about and see what's going on over at the good ole place of higher education in California.

 

 

Recently, Milo spoke at the University of Washington recently where someone was shot outside of the event building. This behavior isn't the typical type at his events and have only erupted to this kind of violence since the election. Before the election, people would just peacefully protest and at most they would flood the event center and get the event shutdown by just being there and causing an uproar.

 

Now, the great country of California where people need a safe space when you say something like there are only two genders, people (dunno if they're actually all students) have formed a riot outside of where the event was supposed to take place at Berkley and got the event canceled earlier. Apparently there is such a threat that Milo and his team had to cancel a couple of events coming up this week as well.

[biker]

Oh they just want to break shit up, at first when I saw this I am like oh its Anti-Trump people. Then when Anderson Cooper said it was UofC students going on about a speaker, I laughed and changed the channel.

[Tech_Dreamer]

"Civilized"

[Real_PhillBert]

I think the title is misleading. This riot was not about free speech, but about blocking opposing viewpoints from having free speech. 

[Guest Kloaked]

6 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

I think the title is misleading. This riot was not about free speech, but about blocking opposing viewpoints from having free speech. 

Same thing. These people hate that other people who have free-speech are exercising the right, so they do what they can to take that right away from them.

[Real_PhillBert]

15 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

Same thing. These people hate that other people who have free-speech are exercising the right, so they do what they can to take that right away from them.

Perhaps you're right.

 

Although the irony of the left rioting to silence a homosexual immigrant is not lost on me. LOL. 

[Mug]

Thing is that it's not really right to generalise the whole left as one conglomerate, would you like it if I compared you to the KKK? It's not right to tar everyone with the same brush because they're the other 50% on the other side of the political spectrum.

 

I really don't think this general kind of argument is useful at all. Lambasting people for trying to stamp out free speech is a little rich when you haven't even tried to understand their arguments. Few people want to silence Milo, many people find his views usavoury.

 

RE the homosexual immigrant:  he should be treated the same as everyone else, his sexuality and where he comes from has no bearing on his opinions. I think the sooner that people separate sexuality and interests, speech patterns, political opinions, fashion etc the better.

[Guest Kloaked]

2 minutes ago, Mug said:

Thing is that it's not really right to generalise the whole left as one conglomerate, would you like it if I compared you to the KKK? It's not right to tar everyone with the same brush because they're the other 50% on the other side of the political spectrum.

That's fair to say, but the context is important. It's like saying that there is a Muslim threat and then having people on your back going "BUT NOT ALL MUSLIMS". That's irrelevant, in my opinion. There is such a massive problem, even though it's a minority, that it's fair to say this is a leftist problem.

 

If just as many right-wingers were doing things like this, it would be fair to say that it's a growing right-wing problem.

 

4 minutes ago, Mug said:

I really don't think this general kind of argument is useful at all. Lambasting people for trying to stamp out free speech is a little rich when you haven't even tried to understand their arguments. Few people want to silence Milo, many people find his views usavoury.

I understand their arguments. The problem is, a lot of their arguments are pulled from thin-air and don't have factual data behind them.

 

Also, see above for my response to the rest of this snippet.

 

5 minutes ago, Mug said:

RE the homosexual immigrant:  he should be treated the same as everyone else, his sexuality and where he comes from has no bearing on his opinions. I think the sooner that people separate sexuality and interests, speech patterns, political opinions, fashion etc the better.

Him being a gay immigrant that has a fetish for black dudes is a jackpot narrative for the left, but since he preaches about free-speech and conservatism he is branded a homophobe, misogynist, xenophobe (probably accurate), etc.

 

The left is starting to pick and choose who they accepts. It's about agreeing with their hive mind, and if you don't then you're a fascist, racist, etc etc you know the drill.

[Mug]

2 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

It's like saying that there is a Muslim threat and then having people on your back going "BUT NOT ALL MUSLIMS".

I think the issue here is that the language some poeple use can confuse the 'some' for the 'all'. Like there are people out there that think that there is an issue with all muslims, it's their ignorance that people are correcting there.

Like yes, there's a problem with extremism and integration in the muslim community but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a muslim problem because some may confuse it with a problem with all muslims. I wouldn't say it about right-wingers either as it encourages disunity.

 

I think the underlying issue is about echo chambers. People self-indoctrinate because it's easier than correcting oneself if they're wrong.It happens with religion, politics, everything. It's why gun people find it so hard to debate with anti-gun, it's why pro-life finds it hard to debate with pro-choice, it's why Trump supporters find it hard to debate with Hillary supporters and vice versa. The dabates that are had are meaningless because people have heard this one viewpoint so much that to hear another feels like a personal attack so they respond disproportionately.

[PlayStation 2]

Heard about it this morning.

This is getting fucking ridiculous. I don't care for Milo personally but what purpose does it serve to destroy your own fucking campus because you don't agree with someone?

[Guest Kloaked]

3 minutes ago, Mug said:

I think the issue here is that the language some poeple use can confuse the 'some' for the 'all'. Like there are people out there that think that there is an issue with all muslims, it's their ignorance that people are correcting there.

Like yes, there's a problem with extremism and integration in the muslim community but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a muslim problem because some may confuse it with a problem with all muslims. I wouldn't say it about right-wingers either as it encourages disunity.

 

I think the underlying issue is about echo chambers. People self-indoctrinate because it's easier than correcting oneself if they're wrong.It happens with religion, politics, everything. It's why gun people find it so hard to debate with anti-gun, it's why pro-life finds it hard to debate with pro-choice, it's why Trump supporters find it hard to debate with Hillary supporters and vice versa. The dabates that are had are meaningless because people have heard this one viewpoint so much that to hear another feels like a personal attack so they respond disproportionately.

The Islamic ideology (not just the extremist view) is based around political dominance. There are forks of the religion that claim to be peaceful and have been fine, so they are not the problem. The important thing is that the connection holds true as the Islam ideology is a violent one.

 

Me being a Christian, I have seen true homophobia first-hand in my home church (which I was kicked out of a couple years ago for other reasons) and in other churches that I played shows in. It is fair to say that homophobia is a problem in Christianity even though not every single Christian is homophobic (like myself).

 

I agree about the echo chambers part 100%. People want to feel validated. They're afraid of being told they're wrong since this generation coming up is the everyone-gets-a-trophy generation. Now that they're finding out the world doesn't work that way, they're pitching a fit.

 

People need to learn how to have a conversation and not turn into twats. 

1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Heard about it this morning.

This is getting fucking ridiculous. I don't care for Milo personally but what purpose does it serve to destroy your own fucking campus because you don't agree with someone?

Just last year people were saying Trump supporters were violent. While some of them may have been, I think we see which group is the more violent one.

[Mug]

2 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

• The Islamic ideology (not just the extremist view) is based around political dominance. There are forks of the religion that claim to be peaceful and have been fine, so they are not the problem. The important thing is that the connection holds true as the Islam ideology is a violent one.
• Me being a Christian, I have seen true homophobia first-hand in my home church (which I was kicked out of a couple years ago for other reasons) and in other churches that I played shows in. It is fair to say that homophobia is a problem in Christianity even though not every single Christian is homophobic (like myself).
• People need to learn how to have a conversation and not turn into twats. 

• I think it's all about the interpritation of the scripture. You could say the same about Christianity or Judaism because the old testament is a load of old horse.
• There is an issue about homophobia in the church (less so in the UK but still), I wouldn't say it's a Christian problem because the problem isn't with all Christians, just a select few. Saying it's a Christian problem turns people against Christianity. It's not a homophobic religion, just that some of the members are homophobes. In this case, I think it's all about language and tone. Like I find Milo's views unsavoury but I woudldn't say there was a gay problem because he holds these views and he is gay.
• I agree. I do feel like bigotry is an increasing problem in the world.

[Guest Kloaked]

51 minutes ago, Mug said:

• I think it's all about the interpritation of the scripture. You could say the same about Christianity or Judaism because the old testament is a load of old horse.

True, which is the problem. Everyone and their dog has their own interpretation of their religion's scripture - that's one reason why in Christianity, you have so many sects and divisions of denominations. I literally got into an argument with someone over Romans 8:29 and how it can be misinterpreted in such a way that no matter what choice you make, it wasn't your choice but God's. I got into another semi-argument with a family member who thinks that Trump might be the anti-Christ, and nothing that Trump is doing lines up with the criteria for that. If anything it's the complete opposite.

 

55 minutes ago, Mug said:

• There is an issue about homophobia in the church (less so in the UK but still), I wouldn't say it's a Christian problem because the problem isn't with all Christians, just a select few. Saying it's a Christian problem turns people against Christianity. It's not a homophobic religion, just that some of the members are homophobes. In this case, I think it's all about language and tone. Like I find Milo's views unsavoury but I woudldn't say there was a gay problem because he holds these views and he is gay.

So I'm going to try to explain this as best as I can - I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts with things like this so hopefully this makes sense. When you're in a church that is based around Christianity especially in the south, the church is going to have a pastor who believes homosexuality is a sin and will preach about it eventually. Most of the followers will also think this way since they trust their pastor's word and interpretation since what they say may resonate and make sense to them. The problem begins when that happens and the people exert this knowledge ignorantly and they will come across as hateful people. They took this knowledge as a sword to take with them to battle as they make posts on Facebook about how specific things are sins (homosexuality, idolatry, etc) while they do just as bad of things themselves - that's all they were taught in church was right from wrong, except that they are so caught up in that detail that they ignore how to interact with people who think differently than them. They have no self-awareness because if they did, they wouldn't treat anyone any different than they would people whom they like.

 

This doesn't just happen in churches or religion in general, obviously. For example, this happens to people who take in everything their chosen media outlets tell them as gospel and run with it ignorantly. They see a bunch of black people rioting in a #BlackLivesMatter movement so that reinforces some people's opinions about black people as this one thing validates their feels and/or thoughts. Even black people who may have actually been oppressed by racist white people all their lives will have a hate for white people because they learned to hate white people early on from other people's racism.

 

I don't remember what this is called but it's almost like being a sheep in a way.

 

1 hour ago, Mug said:

• I agree. I do feel like bigotry is an increasing problem in the world.

The worst part is that the people who are being the absolute worst ones in America are teach this upcoming generation. They're finding out the world doesn't work the way that they were taught so they throw fits. It's sad, as Trump would say.

[TidaLWaveZ]

I understand if you want to protest someones speech who has opposite views but I can't understand the thought process that leads to "We're not going to let people hear this person speak".

 

I mean Milo is not cheap to book and you have to pay in advance, so there had to be a decent amount of students that wanted him to come or else they wouldn't have shelled out the money. Not to mention you have to pay for security. So the student's that shelled out that money(probably young repubs or something) got screwed over by people that have no part of the event.

 

I would normally just shake my head at the ordeal, but it enrages me when they have professors calling for the cancellation of the event in advance and encouraging the students to not let it happen. 

[RocketFarmer]

Think the KKK and Nazi nuts need to make room for this new breed of intolerant a-holes on that great big list of shame.  The only way to respond is brutal force and/or incarceration until their ideology is obliterated.  An ideology where it's OK to commit acts of violence in order to silence or intimidate people.  Shouldn't have to do that, but this is a crowd that will only respond on a more primal, visceral level.  Some aspects of this ideology will never go away, because they'll still have, and should have, freedom of speech to spout whatever stupid crap they want.  But, when spouting stupid crap leads directly to violence, that's no longer just in the realm of free speech.  That's incitement to riot, which I believe is illegal practically everywhere.

 

But local governments, especially the one in LA, not only don't enforce the law, but actively support the cause of the offenders.  Whether they do this because they are weak or support whatever political movement that's behind the violence, is academic.  When you establish a precedence where law is enforced for the politically connected, but not for the rest of society, you really are no longer ruled by law, but by might of those in power.

 

A good portion of these folks, however, aren't really doing it for a cause.  They are doing it because they want, and even like to commit violence.  Unless there is an adequate, proportionate response to that, they are going to continue that behavior.  These folks don't have an ideology, and therefore once the violence is put down they're left with nothing really to say.  Can't say what percentage of this type participated in this or similar events, but you can pretty much bet that they were there.  Might even be 100% for all I know.

 

Milo is intentionally offensive because those who he opposes have practically dictated to everyone else on how they are allowed to talk, think or act.  So he's going to say the most outrageous thing to counter that.  If he's good at it, he'll back up what he says with facts and data.  He's a flamethrower for Generation Snowflake, and therefore is "dangerous" to them.  Meanwhile, real acts of physical violence and vandalism happen outside, and to some it's no big deal.  Worse, they'll try to blame the violence on Milo.

[Urishima]

17 minutes ago, RocketFarmer said:

Think the KKK and Nazi nuts need to make room for this new breed of intolerant a-holes on that great big list of shame. 

They are not new by any means. The Antifa for example has been around forever and this is their MO. And then there are genuine far left terror organisations like the red army faction.

 

We here in Germany are very well acquainted with left wing extremists causing property damage and worse.

 

BTW, word on the tubes is that they dragged some poor SOB out of his car and took a baseball bat to his head. Anyone hear anything about that?

 

@TidaLWaveZ

If this was part of his 'dangerous faggot' tour, I don't think he took any money for it.

[TidaLWaveZ]

5 minutes ago, Urishima said:

They are not new by any means. The Antifa for example has been around forever and this is their MO. And then there are genuine far left terror organisations like the red army faction.

 

We here in Germany are very well acquainted with left wing extremists causing property damage and worse.

 

BTW, word on the tubes is that they dragged some poor SOB out of his car and took a baseball bat to his head. Anyone hear anything about that?

 

@TidaLWaveZ

If this was part of his 'dangerous faggot' tour, I don't think he took any money for it.

I don't know about that, I just remember watching an interview with him after another of his speeches were shutdown and he was talking about how the group that booked him was screwed over because they paid a lot of money for the event and it was shut down. He might not have been accepting money for the speech but someone has to pay for the venue and likely security in Milo's case.

[Guest Kloaked]

9 minutes ago, TidaLWaveZ said:

I don't know about that, I just remember watching an interview with him after another of his speeches were shutdown and he was talking about how the group that booked him was screwed over because they paid a lot of money for the event and it was shut down. He might not have been accepting money for the speech but someone has to pay for the venue and likely security in Milo's case.

They have to pay the school to book the location and other arbitrary fees, so Milo doesn't charge them.

[Misanthrope]

We saw it after the inauguration and we're seeing it today: This will continue until they're all thrown in jail or worst: Someone has the means to defend themselves and kills many of them in self defense while he tries to stop them from burning down their property.

 

Meanwhile we've got Celebrities on Twitter advocating for the assassination of Trump and a military coup openly. Now I get to tell everybody who accused me of being too critical of Social Justice Warriors the magic words: I fucking told you so, this is the inevitable conclusion of their unquestionable rhethoric: violence.

[biker]

No one cares about this news story. The media just wants to jump on the Anti-Trump band wagon.

[Misanthrope]

2 minutes ago, biker said:

No one cares about this news story. The media just wants to jump on the Anti-Trump band wagon.

I care about some random guy being beaten up with lead pipes by Antifa assholes. I also care because we've seen the inevitable conclusion: I care because I also don't want more people to do what the other Trump supporter did and fucking shoot some people over what some stupid walking contradiction like Milo has to say.

 

Do we really need to go to such extremes when it's far easier to let Milo speak and debunk himself with the stupidity of his rhethoric like a gay man saying "Catholics are right about everything" for example?

[Ithanul]

Well, the major issue with interpreting scriptures, especially the New Testament which heavily incorporated Roman philosophy and Zoroastrianism makes interpreting it among a variety of groups come out with different ideas.  Some want to go literal while others go the philosophic or symbolic route causing our variety of denominations.  Even Judaism was built heavily off other culture influences during its time.  One has to remember during this time war, conflict, and flow of ideas between cultures was occurring.  Also, the fact empires used these monotheism and monism to centralize their control, easier to control people when everyone believes in singular deity or idea instead of picking deities out of a pantheon.

 

2 hours ago, Kloaked said:

So I'm going to try to explain this as best as I can - I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts with things like this so hopefully this makes sense. When you're in a church that is based around Christianity especially in the south, the church is going to have a pastor who believes homosexuality is a sin and will preach about it eventually. Most of the followers will also think this way since they trust their pastor's word and interpretation since what they say may resonate and make sense to them. The problem begins when that happens and the people exert this knowledge ignorantly and they will come across as hateful people. They took this knowledge as a sword to take with them to battle as they make posts on Facebook about how specific things are sins (homosexuality, idolatry, etc) while they do just as bad of things themselves - that's all they were taught in church was right from wrong, except that they are so caught up in that detail that they ignore how to interact with people who think differently than them. They have no self-awareness because if they did, they wouldn't treat anyone any different than they would people whom they like.

 

This doesn't just happen in churches or religion in general, obviously. For example, this happens to people who take in everything their chosen media outlets tell them as gospel and run with it ignorantly. They see a bunch of black people rioting in a #BlackLivesMatter movement so that reinforces some people's opinions about black people as this one thing validates their feels and/or thoughts. Even black people who may have actually been oppressed by racist white people all their lives will have a hate for white people because they learned to hate white people early on from other people's racism.

 

I don't remember what this is called but it's almost like being a sheep in a way.

Being in the South, I have seen groups in churches centralize around accepted ideas of how a person should be (their normal).  One of the very reason I keep my mouth shut down here on verbally stating certain ideas I have(I would probably be thrown out of the house).  I have seen how people can isolate another from the group and be hateful because that individual does not share the same ideas.  Of course, not everyone is like that, but the majority do hold that opinion in this area.  I still remember growing up here and how people who did not believe in god or held different beliefs were treated by the rest (either ignored, isolated, or talked bad behind their backs).  This is not something new, people dislike contrasting ideas that they feel is an attack on who they are as people and a community.  Reason for the whole crazy crap down here when gay marriage license became federally allowed.  Our probate judges shut their offices or straight up turn those couples away which is still occurring in some counties.

 

 

[biker]

Well thats typical to care about your own backyard, different story when its thousands of miles away across the pond. I remember when genocide happened and North Americans only cared about themselves. Still happens!

[Guest Kloaked]

1 minute ago, biker said:

Well thats typical to care about your own backyard, different story when its thousands of miles away across the pond. I remember when genocide happened and North Americans only cared about themselves. Still happens!

Yeah I remember.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Liberation

[biker]

5 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

Yeah I remember.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Liberation

 

Nope not that one. That is the token one that everyone remember's because its gotten so much airtime.

I am talking about the African Genocide = No Airtime

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history