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New macbook Pro USB C kills WiFi

Paragon_X
By Paragon_X
in Tech News
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Posted
57 minutes ago, tlink said:

but aren't those all standardized ports? why have standardized ports if your adapters are not standardized?

USB Type-C is a mess. I would not be surprised if some adapters don't work properly on some devices.

It should work, but it's Apple were talking about here. 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

USB Type-C is a mess. I would not be surprised if some adapters don't work properly on some devices.

It should work, but it's Apple were talking about here. 

Just a reminder It only has Thunderbolt 3 ports, those are not USB ports, they are just "compatible" with USB devices.

if you want to annoy me, then join my teamspeak server ts.benja.cc

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Posted

So very Mac so much "pro" ... be it isolated case or not.

 

Note:
'Pro' is for... Proprietary ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Posted
2 hours ago, rattacko123 said:

16 pcie used by the usb-c, 2 from the wifi card, and 4 from the SSD. That's 22, aren't consumer processors only supposed to have 16 lanes??
EDIT: and some more pcie lanes used by the graphics card as well (in the 15 inch model) :o 

also the MBP 15" has 2x TB3 ports so it needs 32 PCIe for just the 4 ports

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Posted
Just now, The Benjamins said:

also the MBP 15" has 2x TB3 ports so it needs 32 PCIe for just the 4 ports

all those ports are not individual TB lanes

 

I don't exactly recall where I read it, but the 2016 PRO has only 2 TB controllers, the two ports on the left side are shared bandwidth

the discussion was if you can connect 2 TB displays at the same time, you can but only if you connect the 2nd one on the right side port

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Posted
5 minutes ago, zMeul said:

all those ports are not individual TB lanes

 

I don't exactly recall where I read it, but the 2016 PRO has only 2 TB controllers, the two ports on the left side are shared bandwidth

the discussion was if you can connect 2 TB displays at the same time, you can but only if you connect the 2nd one on the right side port

Didn't know they were shared, didn't see that specs like that. But their defiantly seems like a power delivery problem with it.

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Posted

Without the usual bonehead hate in this post from some users, could this be an issue that may be fixed with the top tier models and just another way to get more money from the performance users (unless those cpu's dont suppor additional pciE lanes or they were not added phyisically)? 

 

Also, Louis Rossman is someone that lives with hate and its not just because of Linus either xD. But this is just the extra... Have you seen how that fool keeps the replacement motherboards on the ground, all stuffed and pilled up on each other? Ridiculous, this guy has the least sense of organization ive ever seen from an "Elite Fixer". Fancy gear, good basis, bad habits and even worse component safeguard. Would surely not leave any machine with this guy lol.

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Posted
3 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

The problem here is that the MBP 2016 runs out of PCI-E lanes since Thunderbolt3 uses many PCI-E lanes and PCI-E Wi-Fi card and PCI-E SSD..........

I'm guessing due to the actual design, this may not even be an isolated case? Unless somehow other MBP laptops have a completely different design inside of them?

Pretty sad to this happen though. Cases/Mobos still include USB 2.0 along with USB 3.0 for this sole purpose. Too many USB 3.0 devices connected would clog up the lanes and actually slow down everything.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, VerticalDiscussions said:

Without the usual bonehead hate in this post from some users, could this be an issue that may be fixed with the top tier models and just another way to get more money from the performance users (unless those cpu's dont suppor additional pciE lanes or they were not added phyisically)?

So you think it is okay for apple to do this? I don't.

I can see two things that could make this happen, it is running out of lanes or apple fucked up with power delivery, maybe both dunno, but both options would make sense. Since each usb/thunderbolt port uses 4 lanes and all that BS with 32gb using too much ram, so it might be that it cannot use more than x amount, no matter what.

14 minutes ago, VerticalDiscussions said:

Also, Louis Rossman is someone that lives with hate and its not just because of Linus either xD. But this is just the extra... Have you seen how that fool keeps the replacement motherboards on the ground, all stuffed and pilled up on each other? Ridiculous, this guy has the least sense of organization ive ever seen from an "Elite Fixer". Fancy gear, good basis, bad habits and even worse component safeguard. Would surely not leave any machine with this guy lol.

Yes he can be negative about products, but he also often has a good reason behind it, he got really mad at the new Thinkpads, because of the keyboard layout change and battery placement/style, so no he is not just on the hunt for apple laptops.

 

Just because something seems messy to you doesn't mean that it is to him. A part is also not going to short out because you stack them. When he fixes things then it often looks like he does a quality job, unlike some fixing shops.

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Posted

I don't know if USB C is like this but USB 3.0 is and would cause a problem like this. I don't think it is a problem with PCIE lanes but the noise created when high amounts of bandwidth are being passed through the port. On Intel's website they say after a certain amount of bandwidth USB 3.0 will actually start broadcasting. Nothing major but enough to screw with things and potentially block wifi signals. One of the problems I had with my Vive

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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2 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

-snip-

I did not say its okay for Apple to do this, what i said was that Apple could do this for the lower end models. Wether its okay or not for most users, comes down to pricing, which is already high, but its not like its something totally new for users who want to hop into the Macbook bandwagon and this is something that weve seen, from the Apple watch aluminium housings to the Iphone storage/Samsung chip "fiasco". Are all of its usb-c thunderbolt 3 compliant btw?

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1 minute ago, VerticalDiscussions said:

I did not say its okay for Apple to do this, what i said was that Apple could do this for the lower end models. Wether its okay or not for most users, comes down to pricing, which is already high, but its not like its something totally new for users who want to hop into the Macbook bandwagon and this is something that weve seen, from the Apple watch aluminium housings to the Iphone storage/Samsung chip "fiasco". Are all of its usb-c thunderbolt 3 compliant btw?

yeah they all have thunderbolt 3. It would be so anti consumer if they only did this for the "low end" models, they already cost a lot and apple used to be very quality minded, but I have a feeling that every single 13 inch model would have this problem. I hope that the 15inch model doesn't have this problem, it would be such a huge fail for a apple then, more than they already are. I have also only seen Phill Schiller make up some BS about the new macbooks, so maybe he knows that they failed and just want to cover it up.

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5 hours ago, Bsmith said:

apple is known to not have the best functioning wifi chips anyway, so nothing new here.

They are actually are know for their high quality WiFi chip, Linus actually mentions it in his "I switched to mac series"

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remembers me this article that wendell talked about on level1news

http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/macbook-pro-tb3-reduced-pci-express-bandwidth/

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Two words Apple. FUCK YOU.

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34 minutes ago, Miller1218 said:

They are actually are know for their high quality WiFi chip, Linus actually mentions it in his "I switched to mac series"

hmm okey, since I personally have a different experience and read about others having something alike. for example the need to turn the wifi on and off on the laptop to succesfuly activate the chip since it wont/wouldn't(didnt encounter it recently) connect or find networks.

 

but I guess that thing is just stupid hope judging by the hate train that took off here in most comments.9_9:S

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1 hour ago, dragosudeki said:

I'm guessing due to the actual design, this may not even be an isolated case? Unless somehow other MBP laptops have a completely different design inside of them?

Pretty sad to this happen though. Cases/Mobos still include USB 2.0 along with USB 3.0 for this sole purpose. Too many USB 3.0 devices connected would clog up the lanes and actually slow down everything.

People still need USB 2.0 because it is a known issue that USB 3.0 is causing interference with wireless/Bluetooth adapters and some other external wireless  and audio devices.

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7 hours ago, Bsmith said:

might be an isolated case, might not. we will see.

apple is known to not have the best functioning wifi chips anyway, so nothing new here.

7 hours ago, Dackzy said:

each usb/thunderbolt port uses 4 lanes, the NVMe uses 4 lanes and the wifi is 2 lanes I think. I don't think that their CPUs have 22-24 lanes, so it would have to disable something.

3 hours ago, Paragon_X said:

Did you even watch the video? Its on live cam they have 2015 model Macbook and an XPS which none exhibits the same problems. Its not that guys fault that the new Macbook has a faulty design or software bugs.

If you watch the rest of the video it does work later on, and I've also seen reports of a similar issue with a Mac Mini from a few years ago. So it might not be a PCIE lane issue, but maybe something like a grounding/shorting issue? Either way, it's not good, but we don't really know what's going on. Also, I can't imagine lanes would be the cause, the CPU has 16 lanes and the chipset has at least 6. So it should have at least 22 lanes. 

 

The other issue pointed out in the video is the noticeably louder keyboard, which is a huge point of criticism, and does make sense since the keyboard is much shallower (although, it probably does get better over time as you get used to it -- kind of like how you eventually stop bottoming out a mechanical keyboard).

 

Either way, I'm withholding any scolding until after I've seen the issue from a few other sources (hopefully ones that look into it and try to figure out what exactly is the cause).

 

And for the time being, I probably wouldn't buy the new Macs (at least not until reviews are out), but at the same time, you can just return it for a full refund within 14 days, so you can test everything yourself anyway (plus if there turns out to be a serious defect, then you can likely return it even after the 14 days). 

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I love USB-C and i think their choice was right to start adding the ports instead of A. Though i disagree with getting rid of ethernet and SD, but thats another issue.

 

But where the fuck is the QA on this? If this comes back and everyone thinks that USB-C is bad because of one shitty implementation, it better not fuck this up for everyone else. Did they not think to count the number of lanes they had/were using?

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11 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

SNIP

yeah I am watching the videos right now, god it is weird, if someone asked me to fix this laptop then I would just say that I couldn't, so many weird things about it. I was thinking that if they made a really good laptop, then I would maybe think about moving over to a MacBook, but now, nah no way I am touching them. Too many things wrong with them

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15 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

yeah I am watching the videos right now, god it is weird, if someone asked me to fix this laptop then I would just say that I couldn't, so many weird things about it. I was thinking that if they made a really good laptop, then I would maybe think about moving over to a MacBook, but now, nah no way I am touching them. Too many things wrong with them

What's weird about it? The battery wiring/tamperproof screw on the battery seemed weird/bad, and having to remove the motherboard to take off the heatsink seems annoying. I also can't tell if they're all just "special" or what was going on with removing the bottom of the case. But there's nothing about the internals that would turn me off from buying it.

 

Also, for the video, I REALLY wish he used an Apple adapter -- not because he should have to, but USB-C is still in its infancy and not all companies like to follow the spec (especially those who make cables/adapters/etc...), so i'd be curious to see if the adapter was causing problems or if it was the computer. (plus his logic of, it's the $30 adapter, not the $5/$10 one is just stupid and he should know better).

 

Back to the video, he really is just annoying me with his comparisons to the 15" XPS with a quad core.... It isn't priced the same (unless of course one was bought on a sale, or they weren't spec'd equivalently), and it being a year old is irrelevant since Skylake has been around for over a year. And, unsurprisingly, the 2ghz Skylake i5 is about on par with the 2.7ghz Haswell i5. But he is right (although he never actually said it.....), the base 13" should never have come with just a 2ghz i5. 

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2 hours ago, Dackzy said:

yeah they all have thunderbolt 3. It would be so anti consumer if they only did this for the "low end" models, they already cost a lot and apple used to be very quality minded, but I have a feeling that every single 13 inch model would have this problem. I hope that the 15inch model doesn't have this problem, it would be such a huge fail for a apple then, more than they already are. I have also only seen Phill Schiller make up some BS about the new macbooks, so maybe he knows that they failed and just want to cover it up.

 

Schiller is delusional and Ive has basically given up at this point. The new MBP stinks of a lack of direction and leadership from the highest levels in Apple. 5 years to develop this mess? They just need to get it over with and kill the Mac line for good, because it's obvious that they have no clue what to do with it. That, or they are actively trying to turn people off of it and funnel them towards their "pro" tablets instead.

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Just now, djdwosk97 said:

What's weird about it? The battery wiring/tamperproof screw on the battery seemed weird/bad, and having to remove the motherboard to take off the heatsink seems annoying. I also can't tell if they're all just "special" or what was going on with removing the bottom of the case. 

No SD card, no usb A, no DP, no HDMI, even more shallow keyboard, pain in the ass to open (iFIxIt gave it 2/10). They went through so much trouble to keep people from touching anything inside of it. I mean there is nothing pro about it anymore, now just 100% fashion laptop. I also don't think that it is okay that a 1600$+ laptop to have this problem, sure if it is only one or two, then okay fair enough, but I don't think that is going to be the case here.

 

Apple were also always about the little details, so how the F*** did this get through? Is it because Tim cook is all about the investors and Phill Schiller just making a idiot of himself?

9 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Also, for the video, I REALLY wish he used an Apple adapter -- not because he should have to, but USB-C is still in its infancy and not all companies like to follow the spec (especially those who make cables/adapters/etc...), so i'd be curious to see if the adapter was causing problems or if it was the computer. (plus his logic of, it's the $30 adapter, not the $5/$10 one is just stupid and he should know better) 

I think that it kinda makes sense for him to use a 30$ adapter, because not that many people are going to be willing to pay the 80$ or what apple charges you for it. The thing that makes me think that it would't change anything is that when he plugged power into it then the problem was gone afterwards.

 

I would love to test this, but I am not willing to lay 1940$ for the base model, just to test it and there is no way I am going to use it as my main laptop, it is in no way good enough for that.

Before you buy amp and dac.  My thoughts on the M50x  Ultimate Ears Reference monitor review I might have a thing for audio...

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Just now, SSL said:

SNIP

I couldn't agree more

Before you buy amp and dac.  My thoughts on the M50x  Ultimate Ears Reference monitor review I might have a thing for audio...

My main Headphones and IEMs:  K612 pro, HD 25 and Ultimate Ears Reference Monitor, HD 580 with HD 600 grills

DAC and AMP: RME ADI 2 DAC

Speakers: Genelec 8040, System Audio SA205

Receiver: Denon AVR-1612

Desktop: R7 1700, GTX 1080  RX 580 8GB and other stuff

Laptop: ThinkPad P50: i7 6820HQ, M2000M. ThinkPad T420s: i7 2640M, NVS 4200M

Feel free to pm me if you have a question for me or quote me. If you want to hear what I have to say about something just tag me.

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16 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

No SD card, no usb A, no DP, no HDMI, even more shallow keyboard, pain in the ass to open (iFIxIt gave it 2/10). They went through so much trouble to keep people from touching anything inside of it. I mean there is nothing pro about it anymore, now just 100% fashion laptop. I also don't think that it is okay that a 1600$+ laptop to have this problem, sure if it is only one or two, then okay fair enough, but I don't think that is going to be the case here.

 

Apple were also always about the little details, so how the F*** did this get through? Is it because Tim cook is all about the investors and Phill Schiller just making a idiot of himself?

I think that it kinda makes sense for him to use a 30$ adapter, because not that many people are going to be willing to pay the 80$ or what apple charges you for it. The thing that makes me think that it would't change anything is that when he plugged power into it then the problem was gone afterwards.

 

I would love to test this, but I am not willing to lay 1940$ for the base model, just to test it and there is no way I am going to use it as my main laptop, it is in no way good enough for that.

I/O is subjective and being hard to open doesn't make it not a pro laptop. Regardless, I'd consider it more of an ultrabook than a pro laptop at this point. I agree, a $1600 laptop shouldn't have this issue, but I've also only seen one case, so we don't yet know if it's an actual issue (and if it is, then what's the cause -- it could be PCIE lane issue, or a connector shorting issue, or it could be something as benign as a glitch in Sierra). 

 

I agree, most people aren't going to buy the adapters from Apple, however, that way you can at least know what's the cause since he could've just bought a shitty adapter. Just because it's $30 doesn't mean it's any better than the $5 or $10 one. The usb-a to c adapter worked, but I don't think he ever re-tested the usb-c to hdmi adapter. Also, having it work right after plugging the power back in (and then unplugging it) makes me think it's a software issue too. 

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