New macbook Pro USB C kills WiFi

[SpaceGhostC2C]

8 hours ago, pk-man said:

a $99 dongle would fix that /s

Exactly, nothing a wifi dongle connected through USB (A) to a dongle connected through USB (C) to the laptop won't solve. People just like to whine over nuances.  

[Dackzy]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I/O is subjective and being hard to open doesn't make it not a pro laptop. Regardless, I'd consider it more of an ultrabook than a pro laptop at this point. I agree, a $1600 laptop shouldn't have this issue, but I've also only seen one case, so we don't yet know if it's an actual issue (and if it is, then what's the cause -- it could be PCIE lane issue, or a connector shorting issue, or it could be something as benign as a glitch in Sierra). 

Well a pro user would not want to go out and buy all new adaptors or just new products so they work with his or hers laptop, just think if it was a whole business upgrading their laptops. Then we have the specs of it and nothing says pro to me there, nothing even says business class to me.

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I agree, most people aren't going to buy the adapters from Apple, however, that way you can at least know what's the cause since he could've just bought a shitty adapter. Just because it's $30 doesn't mean it's any better than the $5 or $10 one. 

very true

6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The usb-a to c adapter worked, but I don't think he ever re-tested the usb-c to hdmi adapter. Also, having it work right after plugging the power back in (and then unplugging it) makes me think it's a software issue too. 

I think the issue is a combo of multiple things and not just one thing. I will most likely start seing them come in, in a year or so, then I can get really dirty with it, but it looks like a pain in the ass to work with right now.

[Qwweb]

7 hours ago, Dackzy said:

each usb/thunderbolt port uses 4 lanes, the NVMe uses 4 lanes and the wifi is 2 lanes I think. I don't think that their CPUs have 22-24 lanes, so it would have to disable something.

plus 8-16 for the gpu adding up to a whopping 30-40 PCIE lanes, you would need a xeon or extreme edition i7 to run that.

[Dackzy]

3 minutes ago, Qwweb said:

plus 8-16 for the gpu adding up to a whopping 30-40 PCIE lanes, you would need a xeon or extreme edition i7 to run that.

do we even know the CPU excat CPU they put in the 15 inch model? Not really looked that much into them, because I think they are a joke.

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

Well a pro user would not want to go out and buy all new adaptors or just new products so they work with his or hers laptop, just think if it was a whole business upgrading their laptops.

 

Then we have the specs of it and nothing says pro to me there, nothing even says business class to me.

 

I think the issue is a combo of multiple things and not just one thing. I will most likely start seing them come in, in a year or so, then I can get really dirty with it, but it looks like a pain in the ass to work with right now.

Any transition between two standards is going to be a pain, but it's also going to have to happen at some point if USB-c is ever going to take off. So either a company/individual will have to deal with this now (buy new wires/adapters) or in the future. I don't really see why it's much worse having to do it now rather than later. 

 

Like I said, it's more of an ultrabook now, and it's spec'd and priced fairly competitively with other ultrabooks (albeit now with an OLED bar tax). 

 

Looking at iFixit's teardown, it doesn't really seem all that much worse than the XPS13. The biggest issue is multiple screw types (which isn't that big of a deal), and the battery is a royal pain to remove. 

 

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

do we even know the CPU excat CPU they put in the 15 inch model? Not really looked that much into them, because I think they are a joke.

6700HQ, 6820HQ, 6920HQ (depending on the model and whether you choose to upgrade the CPU -- because more gigahertz = much better)

[NumLock21]

Did some digging and this is what it came up. From Apple's 2016 MacBook Pro page it has the following models

 

13" no Touch Bar

1) Core i5 @ 2.0GHz Turbo to 3.1GHz 4MB L3 (default)

2) Core i7 @ 2.4GHz Turbo to 3.4GHz 4MB L3

 

13" with Touch Bar

3) Core i5 @ 2.9GHz Turbo to 3.3GHz 4MB L3 (default)

4) Core i5 @ 3.1GHz Turbo to 3.5GHz 4MB L3

5) Core i7 @ 3.3GHz Turbo to 3.6GHz 4MB L3

 

15" with Touch Bar w/AMD Radeon Pro 450

6) Core i7 @ 2.6GHz Turbo to 3.5GHz 6MB L3 (default)

7) Core i7 @ 2.9GHz Turbo to 3.8GHz 8MB L3

 

15" with Touch Bar w/AMD Radeon Pro 455

8) Core i7 @ 2.7GHz to 3.6GHz 8MB L3 (default)

9) Core i7 @ 2.9GHz to 3.8GHz 8MB L3

Apple didn't specify which architecture those CPUs are running, so we just have to go based on the clock speeds and here is what they are:

 

1) Core i5 6360U

2) Core i7 6660U

http://ark.intel.com/products/91156/Intel-Core-i5-6360U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_10-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/91169/Intel-Core-i7-6660U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_40-GHz

 

3) Core i5 6267U

4) Core i5 6287U

5) Core i7 6567U

http://ark.intel.com/products/91166/Intel-Core-i5-6267U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/91164/Intel-Core-i5-6287U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/91167/Intel-Core-i7-6567U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

 

6) Core i7 6700HQ or Core i7 6770HQ

7) Core i7 6920HQ

http://ark.intel.com/products/88967/Intel-Core-i7-6700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/93341/Intel-Core-i7-6770HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/88972/Intel-Core-i7-6920HQ-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz

 

8) Core i7 6820HQ or Core i7 6820HK or Core i7 6870HQ

9) Core i7 6920HQ

http://ark.intel.com/products/88970/Intel-Core-i7-6820HQ-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/88969/Intel-Core-i7-6820HK-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/93340/Intel-Core-i7-6870HQ-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/88972/Intel-Core-i7-6920HQ-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz

Out of the listed processors

• All mobile dual cores have 12 gen 3 PCIe lanes
• All mobile quad core have 16 gen 3 PCIe lanes

Mobile chipset used for mobile Skylake is either the HM170 or QM170 and both of them have 16 gen 3 PCIe lanes

http://ark.intel.com/products/90583

http://ark.intel.com/products/90584

Total number of lanes for dual core + chipset = 28

Total number of lanes for quad core + chipset = 32

 

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Any transition between two standards is going to be a pain, but it's also going to have to happen at some point if USB-c is ever going to take off. So either a company/individual will have to deal with this now (buy new wires/adapters) or in the future. I don't really see why it's much worse having to do it now rather than later. 

 

Like I said, it's more of an ultrabook now, and it's spec'd and priced fairly competitively with other ultrabooks (albeit now with an OLED bar tax). 

 

Looking at iFixit's teardown, it doesn't really seem all that much worse than the XPS13. The biggest issue is multiple screw types (which isn't that big of a deal), and the battery is a royal pain to remove. 

well a transition should be more smooth, it is all good that they are trying to push it forward, but come on, give us a USB A port or two and maybe a mini DP.

 

Well I fix it gives the MBP a 2/10, while the XPS 13 gets a 7/10 and I would say that the XPS 13 is not that hard to fix.

4 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

6700HQ, 6820HQ, 6920HQ (depending on the model and whether you choose to upgrade the CPU -- because more gigahertz = much better)

okay so nothing really special

[Qwweb]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

do we even know the CPU excat CPU they put in the 15 inch model? Not really looked that much into them, because I think they are a joke.

No mobile cpu by Intel supports more than 16 PCIE lanes, the only ones that support more would be workstation i7s or Xeons

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

well a transition should be more smooth, it is all good that they are trying to push it forward, but come on, give us a USB A port or two and maybe a mini DP.

 

Well I fix it gives the MBP a 2/10, while the XPS 13 gets a 7/10 and I would say that the XPS 13 is not that hard to fix.

okay so nothing really special

Meh, look at the market, there has been usb-c on laptops for a while and manufacturers don't seem to care. So I understand why they chose to just include usb-c ports. 

 

But look at the actual teardown, it doesn't look that much more difficult. And iFixit also deducts points for multiple/proprietary screws (which imo is nonsense).

[Dackzy]

5 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

• All mobile dual cores have 12 gen 3 PCIe lanes
• All mobile quad core have 16 gen 3 PCIe lanes

Mobile chipset used for mobile Skylake is either the HM170 or QM170 and both of them have 16 gen 3 PCIe lanes

http://ark.intel.com/products/90583

http://ark.intel.com/products/90584

Total number of lanes for dual core + chipset = 28

Total number of lanes for quad core + chipset = 32

I think you read that wrong. It says Max # of PCI Express Lanes, that usually means that it cannot use more than the max and that would be 16 lanes, I don't think they have a PLX chip

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

I think you read that wrong. It says Max # of PCI Express Lanes, that usually means that it cannot use more than the max and that would be 16 lanes, I don't think they have a PLX chip

The chipset and the CPU both have independent PCIE lanes. 

[NumLock21]

5 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

I think you read that wrong. It says Max # of PCI Express Lanes, that usually means that it cannot use more than the max and that would be 16 lanes, I don't think they have a PLX chip

No, you're reading it wrong. Look at desktops, gpu already eats up 16. If there is only 16 lanes, a lot of people will be pissed they don't 4 lanes to spare for their M.2

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Meh, look at the market, there has been usb-c on laptops for a while and manufacturers don't seem to care. So I understand why they chose to just include usb-c ports. 

 

But look at the actual teardown, it doesn't look that much more difficult. And iFixit also deducts points for multiple/proprietary screws (which imo is nonsense).

yes, but those laptops isn't being called pro. Heck you can still find business laptops with VGA..

 

well that is because then you have to find something that can and that can be a pain in the ass to find and get. So I understand why, if you need special tools then it kinda makes things harder

[79wjd]

Just now, Dackzy said:

yes, but those laptops isn't being called pro. Heck you can still find business laptops with VGA..

 

well that is because then you have to find something that can and that can be a pain in the ass to find and get. So I understand why, if you need special tools then it kinda makes things harder

Companies can market their products to whoever they want, but in the end it doesn't really matter. What matters is who ends up buying it. 

 

None of the bits are hard to get though -- iFixit's 54-bit kit should have every bit you need (and you can get the generic, non-ifixit branded, kit for $10-$15). 

[Dackzy]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

But look at the actual teardown, it doesn't look that much more difficult. And iFixit also deducts points for multiple/proprietary screws (which imo is nonsense).

Everything in the XPS 13 is easier to take out.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

Everything in the XPS 13 is easier to take out.

But not 3.5 times easier. If the XPS 13 gets a 7, then the MBP should get like a 4-5 and basically only because of the battery. 

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

But not 3.5 times easier. If the XPS 13 gets a 7, then the MBP should get like a 4-5 and basically only because of the battery. 

you have no glue or tape on the battery or ssd in the XPS and that can already there be a pain to get out. It can take you such a long time just to remove the battery from a MacBook.

Quote

A suction cup helps lift the lower edge enough to get an opening pick in, to pop hidden clips on each side. After that, you slide the entire lower case down and you're home free.

WTF, yeah that already there is when the average joe gives up.

[79wjd]

Just now, Dackzy said:

you have no glue or tape on the battery or ssd in the XPS and that can already there be a pain to get out. It can take you such a long time just to remove the battery from a MacBook.

WTF, yeah that already there is when the average joe gives up.

The tape on the SSD isn't a big deal, and the battery is the only real problem with the MBP, but I don't see how that warrants a 2/10 compred to a 7/10.

 

You also don't need a suction cup, you can just stick a cc under the front lip to pull it up, and then use the same cc to unlatch the clips (which the XPS 13 also has). 

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The tape on the SSD isn't a big deal, and the battery is the only real problem with the MBP, but I don't see how that warrants a 2/10 compred to a 7/10.

 

You also don't need a suction cup, you can just stick a cc under the front lip to pull it up, and then use the same cc to unlatch the clips (which the XPS 13 also has). 

I have opened a XPS 13 up a few times now and from what I have seen of iFix it and in the video from rossman, then the MBP seems to be such a huge pain in the ass compared to the XPS 13. You need more force and you need to be more skilled.

[Misanthrope]

8 hours ago, ThinkWithPortals said:

And to fix this, in true Apple fashion, we need an extortionately priced adapter/dongle.

I've got a better fix right here:

 

Spoiler

 

[spartaman64]

5 hours ago, huilun02 said:

But of course a computer repair man has to go out of his way to fault a manufacturer. How else is he going to rake in the business? 

 

The repair shops in my area would gladly take in computers with well known issues and charge customers even if nothing could be done.

 

Loius this anti-Apple scumbag would rather inform people to save them the trouble. Yes Apple go ahead and sue him. 

there is no way for him to make money off of this. what is he going to do solder on a xeon for extra pcie lanes

[spartaman64]

This is why you shouldnt have 4 USB c thunderbolt ports when your processor can only handle two at most at a time and have regular USB 3 or 3.1 ports

[Magnetorheological]

48 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I've got a better fix right here:

 

  Hide contents

 

Hey! That looks a lot like what I'm using to type this post!

[NeoZeon]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The only professionals it's designed for are Apple "journalists" that spends their days writing about how awesome Apple is.

I find it funny that you call yourself a the forum's "scientist" and have such a closed mindset, when looking at evidence you would see that many scientists use apple products. Almost my entire social circle is filled with scientists. I don't know every scientist, but when I go to conferences with 20k+ PhDs and see a sea of apple computers and ipads, I have to think that you are just incredibly wrong.

 

I'm going to copy and paste my post from the LED thread on macs:

Quote

Typical linus tech tips comments here. Many people not trying/able to think about the possibilities. Already cries of "NO MORE FUNCTION KEYS". A few things, in OSX the function keys are mostly used for things like display brightness, launchpad, pause play, and volume control. Do you really think they are so stupid as to get rid of that? Don't you think, its more likely, that just like 60% keyboards that don't have function keys (which I use btw) that there is a key that enables them either on the number row or on the LED strip? It works really well on my HKBB.

 

Also, I find it pretty hilarious that people here think they know how people use macbook pros better than apple knows. "macbook pros are targeted at professionals", "macbook pros are for powerusers". This might be true, but you know who really knows who buys their products? Apple. They pay their data scientists, at the junior level, over 120k a year to figure this out. Their senior level data scientists get paid 300k a year.

 

I am continually astonished by the arrogance of this community when talking about apple products.

 

So I dont think my perspective is universal, obviously, but perhaps I'll give you guys some insight into what I use a macbook for.

 

I am a computational geophysicist. The problems I research cannot be solved on any single computer, I have to use a cluster, and thousands of cores over many many hours to find solutions to my equations. These clusters ( the one i use https://www.tacc.utexas.edu/stampede/)  tend to interface with my macbook via the terminal. As long as a computer can do that, I can do my job. So what do I need from the computer beyond that? Long battery life, and great build quality. The macbook is one of the best at that. It's also nice that they are relatively thin, and I can do some matlab computations on them, and some decent visualization on them. But to really get a large improvement in performance beyond the macbook pro in a laptop form, I would have to get a laptop with a desktop cpu and a gtx 1070/1080. Other than that, the minor improvemnts from slightly faster hardware doesn't really make a difference like it would with gaming: the difference between sometihng taking 15 minutes and 30 minutes doesn't matter much because i can do other things while programs are running. It's not like playing a video game where slight performance decrease/increase cna make the the difference between smooth gameplay and jittery. 

 

For what its worth, Apple and Linux dominates almost all basic research labs (basic in terms of the type of research, not in terms of simple). I realize this is a different world than Linus tech tips. But before you go on bashing apple, calling their decisions stupid, maybe stop and think about if there are any people who would like this?

 

Perspective is what saves us from looking like idiots in both life and the internet. 

 

Keep talking people... it only serves further illuminate who the "pros" are. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

This is the kind of crap I expect from an HP, Acer, or any other mainstream consumer Windows laptop where there is less time used for optimization and validation.