Apple admits in open court to reuse old parts from damaged phones, in new ones

[Noctus]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

I mean it's fine, I'm not the one who gets reamed up the ass in upfront purchasing costs. 

For example ?

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, Noctus said:

For example ?

Mac pricing for example. GPUs, CPUs, and the list goes on. I'm sure at least part of the higher cost has to do with regulations put on these companies. 

[Noctus]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Mac pricing for example. GPUs, CPUs, and the list goes on. I'm sure at least part of the higher cost has to do with regulations put on these companies. 

So you're saying you've never bought something full price? Pretty sure that's the "reamed up the ass" purchasing cost you're spending.

[Doobeedoo]

Not surprising.

[79wjd]

17 minutes ago, Noctus said:

So you're saying you've never bought something full price? Pretty sure that's the "reamed up the ass" purchasing cost you're spending.

Except no. Full price in the US is generally less than full price in most European countries. A lot of that comes from taxes, but a portion also likely comes from companies having higher overhead costs in other countries. 

[Sakkura]

1 hour ago, Volbet said:

Source?

 

Case numbers?

 

By the letter of the law and in practice, repairs and redeliveries are seen as the least intrusive methodes and are therefor the prefered methode.

The consumer has, by the letter of the law in §78, no say in what methode will be used untill the item has been redelivered or repaired a number of times (spanning from 3-7 times). 

 

They don't want to abide by the law because they think the law is unclear. 

If they were certain that they were breaking the law, then they wouldn't have dragged this case to court. 

http://ekstrabladet.dk/kup/elektronik/mobil/live-nu-gaar-apple-i-kamp-mod-david-og-den-danske-koebelov/6372421

 

Case numbers? All the various cases where the consumer complaints board has decided on an exchange (omlevering).

 

That's not the letter of the law. Here it is:

 

Quote

§ 78. Lider salgsgenstanden af en mangel, har køberen valget mellem

1) afhjælpning af mangelen,

2) levering af en anden genstand, der stemmer overens med aftalen (omlevering),

3) et passende afslag i købesummen eller

4) ophævelse af købet, hvis mangelen ikke er uvæsentlig.

Stk. 2. Køberen kan ikke kræve omlevering eller afhjælpning, hvis gennemførelse af den valgte beføjelse er umulig eller vil påføre sælgeren uforholdsmæssige omkostninger. Der skal herved tages hensyn til salgsgenstandens værdi uden mangler, mangelens betydning, og om anden beføjelse kan gennemføres uden væsentlig ulempe for køberen.

Stk. 3. Tilbyder sælgeren afhjælpning eller omlevering, kan køberen ikke kræve et passende afslag i købesummen eller ophævelse af købet.

Stk. 4. Sælgeren skal opfylde krav eller tilbud om afhjælpning eller omlevering inden for rimelig tid, uden udgift og uden væsentlig ulempe for køberen, jf. § 79. Sker dette ikke, kan køberen kræve et passende afslag i købesummen, ophævelse af købet, omlevering eller, for så vidt dette kan ske uden uforholdsmæssige omkostninger, lade mangelen afhjælpe for sælgerens regning.

Stk. 2 covers situations where the seller would prefer to refund. Stk. 2 covers situations where the seller would prefer to repair or exchange.

 

Also, the buyer certainly does have a say in this matter. I mean that's explicitly what the section starts out by establishing (køberen har valget = the buyer has the choice). There are just some limitations. As for the number of attempts at repair or exchange that are allowed, it's not 3-7. It's generally 1, but in certain cases can extend to 2 or (more rarely) 3+. It's also time-dependent, so they can't take months repairing your phone (the time limit will be particularly strict if they haven't given you a loaner phone). More details here.

 

And yes, Apple says they think the law is unclear. But nobody else does. The industry representatives thought it was so crystal-clear that they concurred with the consumer rights representatives. The Danish Competition and Consumer Authority (part of the Ministry of Business and Growth) also concurs.

[AresKrieger]

4 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

I don't see a problem with this. Most other companies do what Apple does. But if Apple does it, all of you guys ride the bandwagon and drag them down.

It has to do with the price premium and profit margin, ie if apple charges so much for their products and makes such a large profit margin then they should provide the best in customer service and part replacement.

[Sakkura]

36 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I mean it's fine, I'm not the one who gets reamed up the ass in upfront purchasing costs. 

Aside from the very high 25% VAT, consumer electronics prices in Denmark are pretty decent.

[Noctus]

17 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Except no. Full price in the US is generally less than full price in most European countries. A lot of that comes from taxes, but a portion also likely comes from companies having higher overhead costs in other countries. 

Umm pretty sure the US jacks prices just like anywhere else lol. You can't say you've payed full price, then go onto say you've never "been reamed up the ass" as you put it. You've either never payed full price for anything or have been the "victim" of "purchasing costs".

[79wjd]

Just now, Noctus said:

Umm pretty sure the US jacks prices just like anywhere else lol. You can't say you've payed full price, then go onto say you've never "been reamed up the ass" as you put it. you've either never payed full price for anything or have been the "victim" of "purchasing costs".

Except that your purchasing costs are relatively higher. So yes, I also have to pay the "purchasing costs", but mine are still lower than yours. 

[Noctus]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Except that your purchasing costs are relatively higher. So yes, I also have to pay the "purchasing costs", but mine are still lower than yours. 

Not really, pretty much everything i buy, convert that to US dollars and the price is roughly the same +/- 10 dollars or so..... 

[79wjd]

Just now, Noctus said:

Not really, pretty much everything i buy, convert that to US dollars and the price is roughly the same +/- 10 dollars or so..... 

6700k - $340 vs. £310 ($380~)

GTX1080 - $640 vs. £584 ($711)

13" MBP - $1930 vs. £1750 ($2130)

 

just to name a few 

[Noctus]

1. 30quid difference

2. 50quid ....

3. 80....

 

You much be cheap as fuck to say thats getting "totally reamed" lmao.

 

That's also like the US complaining when they don't get the features the UK based Triumph motorcycles get, then complain about paying extra to get it ...

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Noctus said:

1. 30quid difference

2. 50quid ....

3. 80....

 

You much be cheap as fuck to say thats getting "totally reamed" lmao.

10% extra for the same product. Apply that to everything and it adds up. 

[Noctus]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

10% extra. Apply that to everything and it adds up. 

See my edit, we pay that 10% basically because of the "cost" to get it to us from the US. Basic economics. Can't go "haha i r pay cheepz" based off that.

[Volbet]

1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

http://ekstrabladet.dk/kup/elektronik/mobil/live-nu-gaar-apple-i-kamp-mod-david-og-den-danske-koebelov/6372421

 

Case numbers? All the various cases where the consumer complaints board has decided on an exchange (omlevering).

And all those cases have numbers that you can refere to. 

 

1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

Also, the buyer certainly does have a say in this matter. I mean that's explicitly what the section starts out by establishing (køberen har valget = the buyer has the choice). There are just some limitations. As for the number of attempts at repair or exchange that are allowed, it's not 3-7. It's generally 1, but in certain cases can extend to 2 or (more rarely) 3+. It's also time-dependent, so they can't take months repairing your phone (the time limit will be particularly strict if they haven't given you a loaner phone). More details here.

I would suggest you look up case number U 2009.1278 V, where the court accepted 7 repair attempts before granting the consumer a return. 

And sure, there is a time limit (usually 3 weeks give or take), but that wasn't what we were discussing. 

 

The buyers choice is also pretty illusory since the seller is ultimatly the one that choses. 

 

1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

And yes, Apple says they think the law is unclear. But nobody else does. The industry representatives thought it was so crystal-clear that they concurred with the consumer rights representatives. The Danish Competition and Consumer Authority (part of the Ministry of Business and Growth) also concurs.

Luckily, it isn't the industry representaives that make laws nor are they the ones that interpret laws. 

And neither does the ministry (atleast not in the traditional sense).

Even Forbruger Ombudsmandens ruling isn't legally binding. 

 

What you seem to fail at is look at this from an objective point of view, The court hasn't spoken yet, so the question is still up in the air. 

Even if Apple has acted completly out of bounds, they still haven't done anything illegal. We'll have to wait untill December 9th to find that out.

And even they they'll probably appeal it to a higher court. 

[Dabombinable]

8 hours ago, Enderman said:

1) good for them, that's called reusing and that is better than recycling or disposing.

 

2) if it works, why the hell are you complaining... it's not like it's worse because it doesn't have new parts.

 

3) this guy should stop buying apple products if he disagrees with their reuse methods.

Its like replacing blown/swollen caps on a motherboard with ones from a dead motherboard-sure it may work, but the chance of the repaired motherboard failing completely skyrockets. Also, with what is paid for Apple's devices, and the fact that with nearly all cheaper phones you get an outright new replacement, why should Apple be given a free pass to use parts from dead phones in new ones without also doing a partial refund due to the device being worth less?

[Enderman]

13 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Its like replacing blown/swollen caps on a motherboard with ones from a dead motherboard-sure it may work, but the chance of the repaired motherboard failing completely skyrockets. Also, with what is paid for Apple's devices, and the fact that with nearly all cheaper phones you get an outright new replacement, why should Apple be given a free pass to use parts from dead phones in new ones without also doing a partial refund due to the device being worth less?

Uh, no?

If you replace them with working caps instead of dead caps, they still have decades of usable lifetime.

 

If it works, it will keep working.

[79wjd]

10 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Uh, no?

If you replace them with working caps instead of dead caps, they still have decades of usable lifetime.

 

If it works, it will keep working.

Give up. The entitlement in this thread is ridiculous. 

[suicidalfranco]

4 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

2.9 year old

already out of warranty 

[VerticalDiscussions]

But this was a phone that was considered safe to use and was refurbished right? Its not like theyr using reused parts in new phones.........?

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

already out of warranty 

3 year warranty, so no. 

[Dabombinable]

44 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Uh, no?

If you replace them with working caps instead of dead caps, they still have decades of usable lifetime.

 

If it works, it will keep working.

Caps from a dead motherboard. Not a working one. And yes it does increase the chance of failure as its impossible to know if the caps have sustained any damage internally.

[QBtech]

5 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Caps from a dead motherboard. Not a working one. And yes it does increase the chance of failure as its impossible to know if the caps have sustained any damage internally.

This is not how any of this works

 

We are talking phones here, so think more about dividing up the screen, camera, motherboard, casing, battery etc. Throwing away the stuff that causes any trouble, making sure the rest works and make a new phone from those parts. 

 

Viola you have made a new remanufactured phone

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, QBtech said:

This is not how any of this works

 

We are talking phones here, so think more about dividing up the screen, camera, motherboard, casing, battery etc. Throwing away the stuff that causes any trouble, making sure the rest works and make a new phone from those parts. 

 

Viola you have made a new remanufactured phone

And those themselves could have hidden problems.