Windows 10 now actually losing market share

[divito]

7 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Plus, you cannot actually disable everything we don't like, and you cannot remove all the bloatware it ships with. 

Do you have an example? I haven't delved too far into my Windows 10 experience; just curious what I might run into if I can't disable certain things.

[NavyCuda]

The part that really pissed me off was that signed drivers for win7/8 have to be used as unsigned in win10... Everytime win10 updated it would eliminate my unsigned drivers... that I need.  I would certainly give win10 a go again if MS respected my privacy and the fact that I paid for the hardware in my computer.

 

I really want to switch to ubuntu as my primary OS, but the CAD/CAM software I use is proprietary and windows only.  Almost all of the games I play have Linux versions.

[r00tH4cK3r]

I agree on a lot of this article. The only OS I dislike more then Windows 10 is Windows Vista. 8 wasn't the best, but 10 is worse. Microsoft needs to rediscover what made people love Windows 7 and integrate that into a new operating system that is less restrictive, less invasive on privacy, and more versatile across different users and platforms.

 

Windows 10, to me, seemed rushed. The finished product wasn't much different then the beta. They seem to be moving towards the end-to-end control format that Apple has been using for years, and that disturbs me.

[r00tH4cK3r]

32 minutes ago, divito said:

Do you have an example? I haven't delved too far into my Windows 10 experience; just curious what I might run into if I can't disable certain things.

One example is Cortana. You have to do a registry edit to get rid of it

[divito]

1 minute ago, r00tH4cK3r said:

One example is Cortana. You have to do a registry edit to get rid of it

But that means it can be disabled. He said there were things that can't be disabled.

[Sauron]

On 2/10/2016 at 9:47 AM, rattacko123 said:

Windows 8.1 is the best IMO, the only good thing about windows 10 is the virtual desktops thing and the universal apps

... it's worse in every way. literally.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

2 minutes ago, divito said:

But that means it can be disabled. He said there were things that can't be disabled.

It still means it can't be disabled "in two clicks" as claimed.

Besides that, there are a number of "apps" deemed core to windows now, like skype, which is not normal skype, but one that only works if you link your skype account to your microsoft account (and you have to check some footnote style option not to link your Windows account to your microsoft account as well int he process). So if you don't feel like making the merge, you have to install normal Skype besides the builtin one, but still cannot remove the builtin one at will, same as many other "apps" that come with it.

 

It's a shame, really, I even joined Windows Insider before release to test it, I was so sure this was going to be a Vista/7 kind of thing: i never was a fan of 8, but I had trust 10 would just become "what 8 should have been". Such a disappointment. I don't know, I guess the trend in device sales is such that it justifies software companies not focusing on desktop users anymore. To an Android or iOS user there's probably nothing wrong or worrying about Windows 10, nothing they are not used to, but I still want to run my desktops as such. And is not just Microsoft, I tired Ubuntu around the same time, and with its unity GUI and all it just felt like an oversized Android.

Anyway, I digress, maybe it's an age thing: I guess those of us who grew up with DOS and literally controlling every line of a system file don't feel too attracted to all these HALs telling us "I'm sorry, Dave, I can't let you do that"  

[AresKrieger]

9 hours ago, kuddlesworth9419 said:

I really don't get all the hate for Windows 10. It's the best OS out there easily. All the stuff people complain about is easily turned off.

It has glaring bugs that can require reinstalling to fix, and the only benefit is dx12 which is essentially akin to a windows 10 exclusive sticker without it there is no purpose in upgrading as all of it's other features are replaceable or not wanted.

 

Claiming it's the best while ignoring its stability and compatibility issues is simply foolish

[divito]

15 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

It still means it can't be disabled "in two clicks" as claimed.

Besides that, there are a number of "apps" deemed core to windows now, like skype, which is not normal skype, but one that only works if you link your skype account to your microsoft account (and you have to check some footnote style option not to link your Windows account to your microsoft account as well int he process). So if you don't feel like making the merge, you have to install normal Skype besides the builtin one, but still cannot remove the builtin one at will, same as many other "apps" that come with it.

 

It's a shame, really, I even joined Windows Insider before release to test it, I was so sure this was going to be a Vista/7 kind of thing: i never was a fan of 8, but I had trust 10 would just become "what 8 should have been". Such a disappointment. I don't know, I guess the trend in device sales is such that it justifies software companies not focusing on desktop users anymore. To an Android or iOS user there's probably nothing wrong or worrying about Windows 10, nothing they are not used to, but I still want to run my desktops as such. And is not just Microsoft, I tired Ubuntu around the same time, and with its unity GUI and all it just felt like an oversized Android.

Anyway, I digress, maybe it's an age thing: I guess those of us who grew up with DOS and literally controlling every line of a system file don't feel too attracted to all these HALs telling us "I'm sorry, Dave, I can't let you do that"  

Disabling is disabling; whether I can click a button or edit the registry, it accomplishes the same thing. For inexperienced users, I can see that being a factor, but as an older guy that also grew up with DOS on DEC's, doing a little registry edit is hardly an issue.

I've never understood the hullaballoo around "data collection" or having to tweak things. That's one thing to enjoy being a power user, is all the customizability.

I've been with Windows 10 since the Insider program on my laptop, and when it was released, put my desktop on it. I've experienced no issues with any performance and while I didn't test it against my old Windows 7 setup, it doesn't feel any slower. I've had zero crashes, I run 4 monitors, play games, just general computing.

Anecdotally, it doesn't amount to much, but I can say that compared from DOS to Windows 10, it's an OS that has taken the least amount of configuration and changes upon installation for me personally. Every other OS, I've needed to adjust several things right away, and Windows 10 hasn't had that affliction. That's not to say I won't poke around the system in the future, but it's been a breeze otherwise.

 

[NavyCuda]

MS-Dos 6.22 - The pinnacle of PC OS's.  MacOS 8 was the last MacOS I had, I didn't want to transition to OSX. 

[LAwLz]

9 hours ago, kuddlesworth9419 said:

I really don't get all the hate for Windows 10. It's the best OS out there easily. All the stuff people complain about is easily turned off.

Here are a few things I complain about. Can you pleases explain to me how these things can easily be turned off/fixed?

 

1) The entire update process. I want to be able to filter which updates I install, so that I can install the ones that doesn't require restarts as soon as they come out, but wait with the ones that do (because I need to have my PC on for months in a row, since I use it as a server).

 

2) All the data harvesting. Not just the telemetry (which is not easily turned off) and the stuff they use the advertising ID for. I am talking about all the other, more hidden data harvesting they got, like how it contacts Bing every time you start trying something in the search field, even when you have everything related to online searches turned off.

 

3) How it reinstalls a bunch of programs every time a major update comes out. I've had to uninstall things like 3D Builder and photos like 3 times now, and they keep coming back. It even installs the "Get Office" app when I have Office installed.

 

4) It ignores certain host file entries.

 

5) Every update seem to have a rather large risk of breaking dual-boot systems.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

21 minutes ago, divito said:

Disabling is disabling; whether I can click a button or edit the registry, it accomplishes the same thing. 
 

And disabling easily is disabling easily, because all this nonsense started with a reply to:

Quote

I really don't get all the hate for Windows 10. It's the best OS out there easily. All the stuff people complain about is easily turned off.

and with that I'm done derailing this thread.

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

[...] I tired Ubuntu around the same time, and with its unity GUI and all it just felt like an oversized Android.

Anyway, I digress, maybe it's an age thing: I guess those of us who grew up with DOS and literally controlling every line of a system file don't feel too attracted to all these HALs telling us "I'm sorry, Dave, I can't let you do that"  

Did you try KDE?

there's always FreeDOS

 

[Okjoek]

The only reason I even use an OS by Microsoft is because I like to play Planetside 2 which is only for Windows and I'm not savvy enough to figure out how to emulate Windows on another OS.

[HalGameGuru]

9 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

"don't feel too attracted to all these HALs telling us "I'm sorry, Dave, I can't let you do that"  "

What's that supposed to mean??

 

I see what you're saying but I think you missed it when you discounted 10 being what 8 was supposed to be. If you think about... it is...

 

It takes all the directions MS wanted to go in with 8, slaps a nice shiny "more like 7" facade on it, and now its further down the rabbit hole while being the compromise from 7 people clamored for. Most all of the issues we have with it have to do with the corporate direction rather than the OS' operation itself.

[Donut417]

Well if they actually tested updates properly, did not force install new OS and did not spy on their users then they wouldn't have this issue. Microsoft Market share has went from like 96% at one point in time down to 89%. I have a feeling this trend will continue. 

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

On 06/10/2016 at 1:42 AM, klh2000 said:

It runs faster and smoother, and also boots faster than Windows 7. My copy of Windows 8 doesn't have any data collection in it, like Windows 10.

Running faster and smoother than Win7 is hardly an achievement.  Fully updated fresh install vs fully updated fresh install on the same hardware, even Vista runs faster and smoother than Win7 nowadays (and uses less resources).

 

As for your copy of Win8 not having data collection : a lot of it was backported to 8.1 and 7.  The updates that did this are well known and people tend to block them, which is why MS is rolling out their new update system next Patch Tuesday (in a few days).  You can either install all of it, or none of it.  No more cherry-picking updates, no way to uninstall a single one that bricks your OS. 

Sure, they say you'll be able to only install security updates and ignore the other updates, but we all know that they put Win10 adware in a security update before so I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with telemetry stuff.

And that brings me back to Vista, where you don't have to worry about any shenanigans being backported at all.

 

On 06/10/2016 at 1:10 PM, kuddlesworth9419 said:

All the stuff people complain about is easily turned off.

With almost every big update, there are reports of user settings being overridden.  What's the point of being able to turn something off if they just turn it on again behind your back? 

 

Also, just because it has a slider with an "off" position on it, doesn't necessarily mean it actually turns off.  It may very well phone home anyway and say "here's a bunch of data, FYI the user doesn't want us to use it". 

And before you say that's tin-foil-hat stuff, Facebook has been documented doing exactly that kind of stuff and storing the data anyway.  MS is determined to turn datamining into a major part of their revenue, so they are VERY likely to pull the same kind of shady tricks. 

[klh2000]

16 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Running faster and smoother than Win7 is hardly an achievement.  Fully updated fresh install vs fully updated fresh install on the same hardware, even Vista runs faster and smoother than Win7 nowadays (and uses less resources).

 

As for your copy of Win8 not having data collection : a lot of it was backported to 8.1 and 7.  The updates that did this are well known and people tend to block them, which is why MS is rolling out their new update system next Patch Tuesday (in a few days).  You can either install all of it, or none of it.  No more cherry-picking updates, no way to uninstall a single one that bricks your OS. 

Sure, they say you'll be able to only install security updates and ignore the other updates, but we all know that they put Win10 adware in a security update before so I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with telemetry stuff.

And that brings me back to Vista, where you don't have to worry about any shenanigans being backported at all.

 

With almost every big update, there are reports of user settings being overridden.  What's the point of being able to turn something off if they just turn it on again behind your back? 

 

Also, just because it has a slider with an "off" position on it, doesn't necessarily mean it actually turns off.  It may very well phone home anyway and say "here's a bunch of data, FYI the user doesn't want us to use it". 

And before you say that's tin-foil-hat stuff, Facebook has been documented doing exactly that kind of stuff and storing the data anyway.  MS is determined to turn datamining into a major part of their revenue, so they are VERY likely to pull the same kind of shady tricks. 

Windows update doesn't even exist on my copy of windows. I got rid of all of that garbage on mine, no backported adware for me.

[LAwLz]

4 hours ago, klh2000 said:

Windows update doesn't even exist on my copy of windows. I got rid of all of that garbage on mine, no backported adware for me.

That might be even worse than letting Microsoft install their spyware on your computer. 

Security updates are extremely important (which is why putting spyware inside a security update like Microsoft did should be a really serious crime. It's like putting nicotine in a flu shot). 

[Delicieuxz]

13 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That might be even worse than letting Microsoft install their spyware on your computer. 

Security updates are extremely important (which is why putting spyware inside a security update like Microsoft did should be a really serious crime. It's like putting nicotine in a flu shot). 

I've had more and bigger system troubles due to accepting updates from Microsoft in the past year and a half than I've ever yet had from not accepting any updates from Microsoft. Maybe if Microsoft were capable of developing good updates, that argument be valid, but continuing to receive Microsoft's updates has already proven to be the real threat to my OS, resulting in multiple OS re-installations, and I think the same is also true for many other people:

 

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/kindle-crashes-and-broken-powershell-something-isnt-right-with-windows-10-testing/

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3107306/microsoft-windows/microsoft-admits-to-distributing-windows-printing-bugs-in-kb-3177725-and-kb-3176493.html

https://redmondmag.com/articles/2016/06/16/june-patch-breaks-group-policy-settings.aspx

http://windowsreport.com/partition-disappears-windows-10-anniversary-update/

http://superuser.com/questions/1022063/windows-10-default-programs-keep-changing

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/16-windows-10-anniversary-update-issues-fix/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/08/15/microsoft-warns-windows-10-anniversary-update-crashes-problems/

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/717115/Windows-10-Anniversary-Update-Install-Problems-Fail

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/76719/microsoft-broken-millions-webcams-windows-10-anniversary-updat

[Delicieuxz]

There were some previous posts in this thread that speculated the gain in Windows 7 market share, proportionate to Windows 10 market share, could be explained by companies buying bulk Windows 7 licenses, before they lose the ability to do so, and because Windows 10 isn't quite ready for many business applications.

 

However, the Steam hardware survey also shows a decrease in the number of gaming systems running Windows 10, and an increase in systems running Windows 7, and Windows 8. So, even without a business factor, Windows 10 is losing market share to previous Windows OSes.

[dlink377]

Unless you need to use some old hardware or old software, I don't see any problem upgrading to Windows 10.

 

We upgraded around 50+ PCs to Windows 10 (we don't need to use old software, all is web based nowadays, some some workstation still have some old software), and practically not much problem encountered. Hardware incompatibilities is easily fixable in my case, and it is faster (upgraded to SSD last year for more future-proofing). I do encounter higher freeze and lock up problem in recent weeks though, probably because of the SSD, since it is reported when saving files and copying some files.

 

Also the Windows Update is so annoying now since it is automatic (we don't have proper business setup on Windows, as we don't need it). It literally sucked the whole bandwidth when it is downloading updates (I don't see much problem when Windows 8.1, probably because we disabled the Windows Update). Some automatic updates even makes few computer unusable. We already disabled forcefully the Windows Update by using some registry tweak, and do manual update every end of the month.

[Carrie0520]

After updated to Win10, my computer crashed down. That is absolutely frustrating.

[Donut417]

44 minutes ago, Carrie0520 said:

After updated to Win10, my computer crashed down. That is absolutely frustrating.

If you did the in place upgrade that is the reason. Once you did the in place upgrade and got your licence converted you had to do a full reinstall. It was the only way to get Windows 10 to work right. I had to use a borked Windows 10 install for a semester, my issue was it wouldn't connect to One Drive. Which I use because my school uses MS office. When I upgraded my laptop. I did the in place upgrade, then did a reformat reinstall after Windows 10 was activated. This way I knew it was going to work more correctly then it would have with out the full reinstall. 

[Mihle]

I would say W7=W10>W8 in how good they are.

 

I havent had one single problem with W10 on my dekstop.

On my laptop, I have had 3 problems, 2 of them was caused by programs, and not w10 in it self.

 

Avast broke the start menu.

 

A program that I use at school broke in a way that I had to re install W10 to get the re install to work.

 

And the last one is that after the last Anniversary update, it failed to log in too my laptop, and I tried to fix it in some way, but like 1,5 hours after it happened, it said a new update was going to get downloaded when I restarted. If I would actually click the check for updates thingy, it would have probably happened much faster (I didnt think of that, because it had just gotten an update) after that update, the problem got fixed.

 

So what I guess happened is that it failed installing the hole update, and therefore broke. then after a while it noticed that there were more parts of the update left, and then installed it at the next time computer turned off.