Apple 2016 keynote event and product release thread

[thehardwarehacker]

10 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

For every person I see who says the Earpods are uncomfortable and poorly shaped, I see someone for whom they work just fine.

 

... The way I phrased that sounds like I'm being nice to the Earpods... I shall rectify that...

Every single other mainstream company that produces earphones, with few exceptions (which are always unpopular), can manage to make their products comfortable and functional for more than 90% of their consumer base. Apple went with a hard plastic shell which will, by design, be highly uncomfortable for anyone whose ears aren't shaped a certain way, and they didn't compensate with anything except for aesthetics, which they then charged a hefty premium for. The Earpods are the very definition of a bad product.

 

When half the customers can't wear a company's earphones, it either means they're airline freebies or the company's engineers did a poor job.

i find the 1st gen ear pods to be comfy, and say highly usable. the only downside i have with them is they dont stay in some times because ether their a bit too small for my ears, or my ears are a bit too big for them. other than that their a fine product.

[Dash Lambda]

Just now, Kimmers said:

Lots of anecdotal and random ass numbers. 

While the 90% thing is in fact a random-ass number, which I usually avoid (overlooked it here, but I always try to say "vast majority" or something similar when I don't have actual data), the rest consists of a colloquialism and two things that are not numbers.

 

Either way, you don't need professionally collected, published, and peer-reviewed statistics to roughly judge the reception of a product.

[Bouzoo]

6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

There really isn't any benefit to a higher res screen. I've used the S7 Edge and the 6s+ and the resollution doesn't matter. 

They got rid of the 64gb model because then it would be 32, 64, 128 (and 64gb would be heavily undermined by 32gb model) at the same pricepoints. 

It looks like the dual camera is one lens for telphoto and one for wide angle? At least that's what I gathered from the spec page -- I didn't see the keynote. 

It's big.Little

There is benefit of a better (clearer) picture when you're watching a lot of series/videos on your phone. And the difference in noticeable, talking from experience. 

I still think that it's stupid to just ignore it. 32 costs $649, 128 is $749 and 256 is $849. Price it at $699 if you want. Just my opinion.

Yeah, one is wide as I understood, but they will work together or something like that? I'm interested in that.

Ah I see. 

[captain cactus]

Just now, nicolaj82 said:

I can understand going digital on the headphones, i don't mind that. Android just needs to follow with putting their usbc port on the bottom and not all over the place.

There's no such thing as digital headphones. Stop believing that there is.

[Agosto]

Wait a second

The guy said "the iphone 7 performs 100 billions operations in 25ms while taking a single photo"

That's bogus, how can you execute 4*10^12 operations per second if you have a 2GHz CPU? Even considering the GPU, that's 4TFLOPS, makes no sense

[79wjd]

11 minutes ago, Noctus said:

I remember having the 1st iPhone when i didn't know any better. It was jet black lol. U'd think they invented the colour they way i've seen people talk about it.

Jet black aluminum is pretty impressive. It's not as simple as making plastic or glass glossy black. 

 

7 minutes ago, Noctus said:

Yeah.... can't wipe the 32gb variant entirely and have the 64gb take over that and make less profits. That would eat into that 100bill in the bank, can't be having that, oh no, certainly not.

 

Lol.

How dare they want to maximize their profits. It would be moronic of them to put 64gb in the base model. 

4 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

There is benefit of a better (clearer) picture when you're watching a lot of series/videos on your phone. And the difference in noticeable, talking from experience. 

I still think that it's stupid to just ignore it. 32 costs $649, 128 is $749 and 256 is $849. Price it at $699 if you want. Just my opinion.

Yeah, one is wide as I understood, but they will work together or something like that? I'm interested in that.

Ah I see. 

Except no.... Considering the size of the screen and the viewing distance, the higher resolution is irrelevant. This is basically a generally accepted idea. Even Linus thinks anything over 1080p is stupid on such a small screen. All it does his negatively impact battery life and GPU performance. 

 

And I have no idea how they could work together....

[Dash Lambda]

1 minute ago, thehardwarehacker said:

i find the 1st gen ear pods to be comfy, and say highly usable. the only downside i have with them is they dont stay in some times because ether their a bit too small for my ears, or my ears are a bit too big for them. other than that their a fine product.

In a vacuum, sure.

A product that works fine for most people has no excuse, however, when dozens of other companies (often smaller) can manage to make a product that works well for a larger majority of people.

[Trixanity]

10 minutes ago, Agost said:

Wait a second

The guy said "the iphone 7 performs 100 billions operations in 25ms while taking a single photo"

That's bogus, how can you execute 4*10^12 operations per second if you have a 2GHz CPU? Even considering the GPU, that's 4TFLOPS, makes no sense

It's the ISP, not the CPU, doing the operations. Different beast entirely.

11 minutes ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

There's no such thing as digital headphones. Stop believing that there is.

Depends on how you look at it. Audio is inherently analog, but the connector will be digital that's the reason for the name. That obviously means there is a DAC + amp somewhere between the connector and the speaker unless it uses passthrough from the device's internal DAC which is supposedly not possible on a Lightning connector but is on USB-C.

[Dash Lambda]

10 minutes ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

There's no such thing as digital headphones. Stop believing that there is.

How 'bout Bluetooth headphones? Do they exist?

[Agosto]

2 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

It's the ISP, not the CPU, doing the operations. Different beast entirely.

 

And an image processor can execute 4TFLOPS? 

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

How 'bout Bluetooth headphones? Do they exist?

Sound is still analog. He's arguing a stupid technicality. 

[Trixanity]

3 minutes ago, Agost said:

And an image processor can execute 4TFLOPS? 

Apparently yes. Anandtech did not question it and in fact hinted that it's very plausible, so what exactly are we arguing here? That Apple is making this up?

 

Edit: and are you sure it's doing FP operations? I don't think you measure an ISP's performance in flops but I don't know enough about ISPs to dispute it.

[IIIBIYULIII]

4 hours ago, Crazy Ginger said:

My issue with Apple removing the headphone jack isn't because I want to get an iPhone.  Its that other device manufacturers will go and copy apple and start to remove the headphone jacks on Android phones as well.  I bet that because apple removed it, Samsung will also remove the audio jack on their phones as well, justifying it with "it makes it more waterproof", which will result in more asshats playing their music out loud on the train or bus through their phone speakers, justifying their behaviors with "Oh sorry I'm charging my phone so I can't plug in my headphone adapter so deal with it."  Heck, I bet in the near future, we are going to get a phone with no ports at all and charges wirelessly.  It will probably be an iPhone that does that.  Cause who needs to have a hole in their phone to charge it, we can do that wirelessly!  We also don't need it for data transfer since Bluetooth exists!  Our phone is as thin as a sheet of paper.  WE ARE SO INOVATIVE FOR EMPHASISING THINNESS OVER FUNCTIONALITY.  In essence, apple is about to screw over not only their customers, but also everyone else. 

Yeah man I literally bought my B&O Play 3i a few months back...

[Agosto]

Just now, Trixanity said:

Apparently yes. Anandtech did not question it and in fact hinted that it's very plausible, so what exactly are we arguing here? That Apple is making this up?

That just sound kinda PR math

[Dash Lambda]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

Sound is still analog. He's arguing a stupid technicality. 

Yeah, I know what he's arguing, it's just that... Well, he's wrong...

There's no such thing as digital speakers (well, the actual component), but headphones are a device, which includes whatever electronics they have onboard.

Though I guess that means I'm arguing a stupid technicality too...

I'll stop...

[captain cactus]

4 hours ago, Crazy Ginger said:

My issue with Apple removing the headphone jack isn't because I want to get an iPhone.  Its that other device manufacturers will go and copy apple and start to remove the headphone jacks on Android phones as well.  I bet that because apple removed it, Samsung will also remove the audio jack on their phones as well, justifying it with "it makes it more waterproof", which will result in more asshats playing their music out loud on the train or bus through their phone speakers, justifying their behaviors with "Oh sorry I'm charging my phone so I can't plug in my headphone adapter so deal with it."  Heck, I bet in the near future, we are going to get a phone with no ports at all and charges wirelessly.  It will probably be an iPhone that does that.  Cause who needs to have a hole in their phone to charge it, we can do that wirelessly!  We also don't need it for data transfer since Bluetooth exists!  Our phone is as thin as a sheet of paper.  WE ARE SO INOVATIVE FOR EMPHASISING THINNESS OVER FUNCTIONALITY.  In essence, apple is about to screw over not only their customers, but also everyone else. 

The S6 and S7 are already water-proof, WITH a headphone jack. If anything, they'll be the ones continuing to improve on the 3.5mm hack such as better on-board DAC, amp and sound processor, then watch how Apple does a 180 at light speed.

[thehardwarehacker]

6 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

In a vacuum, sure.

A product that works fine for most people has no excuse, however, when dozens of other companies (often smaller) can manage to make a product that works well for a larger majority of people.

the inherent descriptions of 'well' and 'fine' can differ from person to person, so i dont see how those can be use as the differentiation in that argument, a product that works 'fine' for me might be 'well' for you, and we could unknowingly place them in the same spot in the comfort and usability hierarchy. a company like apple, or any other company for that matter, takes whatever data they gather, finds what they believe to be the most common denominator in that data, and design a product around that. its not an 'excuse' is a 'reason'.

[Belgarathian]

I will be scoring myself a lovely new iPhone 7 and Apple Watch 2 because I am a sheeple. 

[Bouzoo]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Except no.... From the size of the screen and the distance you'll be viewing the screen from the higher resolution is irrelevant. This is basically a generally accepted idea. Even Linus thinks anything over 1080p is stupid on such a small screen. All it does his negatively impact battery life and GPU performance. 

It's also a generally accepted idea that human eye can't see more than 24 FPS.

Except it's not irrelevant. A simple Youtube video shows on my gf 6S and my G2 shows a noticeable difference from a normal viewing distance. A simple movie trailer shows a difference. If you think it's useless well... that's fine I guess? I disagree. Same how some people can't see a difference between 60 and 144 FPS yet some do. You said it yourself ,"A generally accepted idea", it doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. 

And I never said higher than 1080p. If you want higher, put it on 7 Plus as far as I care, I'm talking about "regular" 7. Since we're "quoting" Linus, I remember Linus said on some video (was it the S6 Edge?) that due to the quality of a screen he can notice the difference between 1440p and 1080p. It's not huge, but it's noticeable. I may have picked the wrong video. Huge chance I did. But I remember him saying that. 

And not to be rude... so what if he said it? He said many things and was proven wrong in many as well. It's his personal opinion and cool, everyone has one, but Linus said something so it must be like that? He said the camera on G5 is horrible in low light based on 1 picture, yet there is a proper, professional test, that shows it being better than 6S, S7 edge and HTC one. I don't agree with it but it exists.

And iPhones have the GPU and battery power to run it. If 6S Plus can have 1080p, so can the 7, with better GPU and better battery than 6S did, which lasted for a long time as it is. That's all I wanted to say.

[Trixanity]

1 minute ago, Agost said:

That just sound kinda PR math

That's a very common technique but to re-iterate from my edit (which I guess might have been missed): I don't think you measure ISP performance in flops as I don't think they do FP operations but I don't know enough about it to be sure. What I do know is that it is a very specialized chip so it should be able to do a lot more within its limited scope than a CPU.

[Agosto]

1 minute ago, Trixanity said:

That's a very common technique but to re-iterate from my edit (which I guess might have been missed): I don't think you measure ISP performance in flops as I don't think they do FP operations but I don't know enough about it to be sure. What I do know is that it is a very specialized chip so it should be able to do a lot more within its limited scope than a CPU.

Don't know, thery still sound like a lot. Maybe there's actually some PR math, like multiplying stuff that shouldn't etc

 

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

It's also a generally accepted idea that human eye can't see more than 24 FPS.

Except it's not irrelevant. A simple Youtube video shows on my gf 6S and my G2 shows a noticeable difference from a normal viewing distance. A simple movie trailer shows a difference. If you think it's useless well... that's fine I guess? I disagree. Same how some people can't see a difference between 60 and 144 FPS yet some do. You said it yourself ,"A generally accepted idea", it doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. 

And I never said higher than 1080p. If you want higher, put it on 7 Plus as far as I care, I'm talking about "regular" 7. Since we're "quoting" Linus, I remember Linus said on some video (was it the S6 Edge?) that due to the quality of a screen he can notice the difference between 1440p and 1080p. It's not huge, but it's noticeable. I may have picked the wrong video. Huge chance I did. But I remember him saying that. 

And not to be rude... so what if he said it? He said many things and was proven wrong in many as well. It's his personal opinion and cool, everyone has one, but Linus said something so it must be like that? He said the camera on G5 is horrible in low light based on 1 picture, yet there is a proper, professional test, that shows it being better than 6S, S7 edge and HTC one. I don't agree with it but it exists.

And iPhones have the GPU and battery power to run it. If 6S Plus can have 1080p, so can the 7, with better GPU and better battery than 6S did, which lasted for a long time as it is. That's all I wanted to say.

I'm not talking about in the general population. I'm talking about people who have used both (i.e. people like Linus, and not just Linus -- linus is a known example). And the key point there is the quality of the screen -- the quality of the screen is more important than the resolution. Once you have a high quality scren the reoslution doesn't make as much of a difference once you've reached a certain point.

 

That could also have to do with scaling or the specific applications being used. 

 

You're right, they have the power to easily handle it....but why? I'd rather have better battery life (and better gaming performance -- read: lasts longer) than an irrelevantly higher resolution screen. 

[Trixanity]

1 minute ago, Agost said:

Don't know, thery still sound like a lot. Maybe there's actually some PR math, like multiplying stuff that shouldn't etc

 

PR math is usually correct in one way or another but very skewed. With that being said: the vast majority of the journalists (and other viewers) there will probably just nod and say "ok" without knowing what it means anyway since they can't put it into any meaningful context (except the number sounds impressive to the layman), so Apple has very little reason to "lie". I agree, though, that it's probably like Nvidia's "10x performance*" claims and/or it's a useless metric. 

[Dash Lambda]

8 minutes ago, thehardwarehacker said:

the inherent descriptions of 'well' and 'fine' can differ from person to person, so i dont see how those can be use as the differentiation in that argument, a product that works 'fine' for me might be 'well' for you, and we could unknowingly place them in the same spot in the comfort and usability hierarchy. a company like apple, or any other company for that matter, takes whatever data they gather, finds what they believe to be the most common denominator in that data, and design a product around that. its not an 'excuse' is a 'reason'.

Good point (specifically about "well" and "fine")...

The reason I say the Earpods are poorly designed is because they put aesthetics above comfort in a product for which comfort is the most important factor. Other companies realize that a hard shape which relies on the user's ear to conform to it can not be comfortable for everyone, so they make earphones with inserts that conform to the shape of the user's ear (in various different flavors, of course). Apple sacrificed that comfort in favor of a 'clean' look, which resulted in a product which is inherently inferior to those of other companies in a very important way.

[thehardwarehacker]

1 minute ago, Dash Lambda said:

Good point (specifically about "well" and "fine")...

The reason I say the Earpods are poorly designed is because they put aesthetics above comfort in a product for which comfort is the most important factor. Other companies realize that a hard shape which relies on the user's ear to conform to it can not be comfortable for everyone, so they make earphones with inserts that conform to the shape of the user's ear (in various different flavors, of course). Apple sacrificed that comfort in favor of a 'clean' look, which resulted in a product which is inherently inferior to those of other companies in a very important way.

now, we are in agreement. yes we know apple to do this with dam near everything they do, though you would have to admit that when it comes to apples shit. all that can be done is to bite the bullet, and use it for what its worth.