Ireland Government intend to appeal EU/Apples Tax Ruling

[Master Disaster]

The Irish cabinet met twice last week, on Tuesday they decided to leave the decision to later in the week but after another parliamentary session on Friday they decided to launch an appeal in Brussels against the ruling. 

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The Republic of Ireland's cabinet has agreed to appeal against the European Commission's ruling that Ireland granted undue tax benefits of up to €13bn (£11bn) to Apple.

 

Taoiseach Enda Kenny said he made no apology for defending the Irish government's right to appeal.

 

The decision to appeal was agreed by the Irish cabinet on Friday morning.

Tim Cook has said he is confident the ruling will be overturned on appeal

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Apple chief executive Tim Cook said he was "very confident" the ruling would be overturned on appeal.

 

He called the European Commission's decision "maddening" and "political".

The EU are standing firm and saying they'll do everything they can to ensure the ruling stands

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European Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager rejected Mr Cook's claims.

 

"The is a decision based on the facts of the case, looking into Apple Sales International, how they are arranged within Ireland, and the profits recorded there," she said.

Irish Parliament still have to meet again on Wednesday in order to secure the agreement of the Irish opposition party before they can launch the appeal. The opposition have said they want to see the decision appealed. 

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This is a minority Fine Gael government that includes independents.

 

It is dependent on the support of the main opposition party, Fianna Fáil.

 

Fianna Fáil has indicated that it wants to see an appeal of the commission's ruling, if only to see who is right - Brussels, or Dublin - on whether or not the Irish government had a secret deal with Apple.

A government official said this is about protecting Irish sovereignty 

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Speaking after the cabinet meeting, Mr Kenny said: "This is about Ireland, it is about our people, it's about us as a sovereign nation, actually setting out what we consider our appropriate policies".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37251084

 

If you don't want it Ireland then I'll take it, 13b Euros would do me well for a while

 

Oh and can I clear something up (incase you didn't watch WAN yesterday), Ireland (Eire) are NOT leaving the EU with the UK. Northern Ireland are as they're a member of the UK but Eire are not and will stay if/when we leave. 

[PRTI]

1 minute ago, Nicholatian said:

You can tell something is terribly wrong when private corporations are dueling with and winning against Unions like the EU. The power of money is really taking hold in this world.

Good,since the EU sucks ass anyway

[Master Disaster]

Just now, keNNySOC said:

Good,since the EU sucks ass anyway

Not as much as Apple do... 

[PRTI]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

Not as much as Apple do... 

Apple is a normal firm making money,nothing wrong about that

[Master Disaster]

Just now, keNNySOC said:

Apple is a normal firm making money,nothing wrong about that

Apple paid less tax than my mum who runs a business employing less than 10 people. FTR there is something wrong with that. 

 

It might not have been there fault but that doesn't make it right. 

[Deli]

1 hour ago, keNNySOC said:

Apple is a normal firm making money,nothing wrong about that

Tax evasion is nothing wrong. That's new for me.

[Centurius]

12 minutes ago, keNNySOC said:

Apple is a normal firm making money,nothing wrong about that

I'm sure you think BP was just a normal firm making money during the oil spill or Shell in Africa and that there was nothing wrong with those things. A company that pushes itself into a position where it puts the local population(or with taxes in fact the population of the country the company was founded in) at an unreasonable disadvantage is inherently wrong. 

[Deli]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Apple paid less tax than my mum who runs a business employing less than 10 people. FTR there is something wrong with that. 

 

It might not have been there fault but that doesn't make it right. 

To be more precise. Apple paid 1% or less.

 

If Apple paid 12.5%(already very low), same for other businesses in Ireland. Then I'm ok with that.

[Volbet]

It will be intersting to see how the CJEU will side on this. 

Traditionally, the have sided with the Comission. But doing so in this case would set a potentially dangerous president, where EU's member states can no longer determine their own tax policies.

Ruling in favour of the Comission would probably also further strain the already tense relationship between the EU and the US. 

 

2 minutes ago, Deli said:

Tax evasion is nothing wrong. That's new for me.

It's technically not tax evasion.

The Comissions ruling only apply to the deal made between Ireland and Apple.

It doesn't declare anyone guilty of tax evasion. 

[Centurius]

2 minutes ago, Deli said:

To be more precise. Apple paid 1% or less.

 

If Apple paid 12.5%(already very low), same for other businesses in Ireland. Then I'm ok with that.

It's even worse than that, the 1% was actually deemed somewhat acceptable. They essentially paid 0.005% or 50 for every million made.

 

[Deli]

1 hour ago, Volbet said:

It will be intersting to see how the CJEU will side on this. 

Traditionally, the have sided with the Comission. But doing so in this case would set a potentially dangerous president, where EU's member states can no longer determine their own tax policies.

Ruling in favour of the Comission would probably also further strain the already tense relationship between the EU and the US. 

 

It's technically not tax evasion.

The Comissions ruling only apply to the deal made between Ireland and Apple.

It doesn't declare anyone guilty of tax evasion. 

Officially Japan, South Korea and tons of other countries do not have a Nuclear weapon program. Yeah, sure.

 

The intention of the deal was tax evasion. It is tax evasion.

 

 

[LeChef]

I don't get how people approve of this deal. This is more tax exemption than tax reduction.

[Volbet]

4 minutes ago, Deli said:

Officially Japan, South Korea and tons of other countries do not have a Nuclear weapon program. Yeah, sure.

 

The intention of the deal was tax evasion. It is tax evasion.

I fail to see what nuclear weapons have to do with anything...

 

The intention was not tax evasion. Tax evasion is when a person, legal or physical, use a tax loophole or illegal means to pay less taxes.

What Apple did in Ireland is making a deal with the Irish government. Apple payed. 0,005% taxes, but they also bought thousands of jobs to Ireland. 

Both the Irish governent and Apple were in on this deal, so no evasion took place. 

[PRTI]

37 minutes ago, Centurius said:

I'm sure you think BP was just a normal firm making money during the oil spill or Shell in Africa and that there was nothing wrong with those things. A company that pushes itself into a position where it puts the local population(or with taxes in fact the population of the country the company was founded in) at an unreasonable disadvantage is inherently wrong. 

There's nothing wrong with avoiding tax

 

Firms do it and its a standard nothing new,EU etc...just take money from the people to pay up there mistakes and there loses and they are suppose to protect us? Nato bombed my country back in 99 and everything was fine to that,you know what,just killing people...that is wrong,avoiding tax is no where near that...you know germany called my people monsters,but the thing is...you know...they were the monsters for killing children and raping them and putting guns in peoples faces....

Edited September 3, 2016 by wkdpaul
Language

[Master Disaster]

3 minutes ago, RikvE said:

I don't get how people approve of this deal. This is more tax exemption than tax reduction.

I think that Ireland are happy with it simply because Apple employ lots of people in Ireland so while they're not taking tax from Apple directly Apple are paying a lot of wages to Irish citizens and if Apple left Ireland it would have a huge impact the Irish economy. 

[Centurius]

26 minutes ago, keNNySOC said:

-snip-

You mean when NATO launched military operations to prevent a massacre in Kosovo? You had your government to blame for that one.

 

There is also something ironic in not being against a tax deal and opposing capitalism in the same post.

[Master Disaster]

5 minutes ago, Volbet said:

I fail to see what nuclear weapons have to do with anything...

 

The intention was not tax evasion. Tax evasion is when a person, legal or physical, use a tax loophole or illegal means to pay less taxes.

What Apple did in Ireland is making a deal with the Irish government. Apple payed. 0,005% taxes, but they also bought thousands of jobs to Ireland. 

Both the Irish governent and Apple were in on this deal, so no evasion took place. 

And is creating a deal with the government to pay an illegal amount of tax not exploiting a loophole? 

[Deli]

1 hour ago, RikvE said:

I don't get how people approve of this deal. This is more tax exemption than tax reduction.

There are so many die hard free market believers, that the "only" purpose of a company is to create profit for its shareholders. Any way that helps a company to make more money is good.

 

So a company does not have social responsibility, no obligation to its stake holders, etc. Just make money.

[SirRoderick]

26 minutes ago, keNNySOC said:

-snip-

This IS Capitalism. The thing you are currently cheering is the most Capitalist thing imaginable. They made an illegal tax deal to grant Apple basically a total exemption from taxes in the EU. That is including proceeds from your own region, because they get funneled through Ireland.

[PRTI]

1 minute ago, Centurius said:

You mean when NATO launched military operations to prevent a massacre in Kosovo? You had your government to blame for that one.

 

There is also something ironic in not being against a tax deal and opposing capitalism in the same post.

And what did my government do?

[Volbet]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

And is creating a deal with the government to pay an illegal amount to of tax not exploiting a loophole? 

Time will tell of the deal is illegal. 

In Irish law the deal is definitly not illegal. But obviously the Comission disagrees.

 

1 minute ago, Nicholatian said:

What is legal isn’t alwas right, Mr. Technical. Nice go, though.

 

Apple shouldn’t be covered in gold for creating jobs. They pretty much need to do that anyway; it’s expected… or at least should be. Lol, everyone’s standards for corporations are so far down in the shitter that we can’t even see them anymore.

I never argued morality in this.

Non leges morales is one of the corner stones of moral discussions.

[PRTI]

1 minute ago, SirRoderick said:

This IS Capitalism. The thing you are currently cheering is the most Capitalist thing imaginable. They made an illegal tax deal to grant Apple basically a total exemption from taxes in the EU. That is including proceeds from your own region, because they get funneled through Ireland.

I am against Capitalism,but there is nothing wrong with it,YOU KNOW WHY? its a fucking standard adopted by US,why don't we gather up and fight? you know why not? because we can't...we just let them drown us,we just complain but won't do a dang thing about it...its normal,its not wrong,because we make it seem like its right...

[Centurius]

3 minutes ago, keNNySOC said:

And what did my government do?

A nearly decade-long campaign of oppression to undermine the local Kosovar Albanian population culminating in the Racak massacre after several times before showing the inclination to commit war crimes and even genocide in other Balkan states.

 

But we're going off topic. 

[Volbet]

Just now, Nicholatian said:

Regardless of what’s going on in your world, morality is a cornerstone of this discussion. It matters a lot here.

Not to me. 

Morality is something I use to make decision in my day to day life. Not something I can apply to companies that aren't my own. 

My own personal opinion on this whole debacle shouldn't really matter. 

What should matter is whether or not the deal Ireland made with Apple is against the current legislation in the EU. 

[PRTI]

Just now, Centurius said:

A nearly decade-long campaign of oppression to undermine the local Kosovar Albanian population culminating in the Racak massacre after several times before showing the inclination to commit war crimes and even genocide in other Balkan states.

 

But we're going off topic. 

Where was that operation launched? - Kosovo

 

If it was happening in my country,the Nato would just say "No,lets let them just kill themselves"