overcloking Fun Idea For OverClocking a 6700k

[Legeis]

So I'm trying to OC my cpu in a.... not the most typical fashion... Why you ask? Why Not? also I saw on Reddit someone posted they got an extra 10% FPS jump using this method. 

 

So here is what i want to do. Rather than overclocing my cpu by adjusting the base clock multiplier i want to try raising the reference clock. 

 

Before i get into too much more detail here is my parts list > http://pcpartpicker.com/list/nrTdCy < although technically my graphics card is Nividia branded and not EVGA branded but that honestly shouldn't make a difference.

 

now for what I am attempting to achieve.

1. a reference clock of 112.5 MHz with a base clock multiplier of 40 for an over all base clock of 4.5 GHz. (A speed that is well established to be a good overclock for a 6700k using other methods)

2. Ideally a turbo clock multiplier of 44 for a turbo clock of 5 GHz. (while harder to achieve not out of the realm of possibility.)

3. some sort of system stability. (Yeah this one is hard I'm aware)

4. Not to fry my cpu. (Yeah technically intel lets me buy 2 cpus a year pretty cheap but I can't get another one from them until some time this fall and I was planning to use that opportunity to maybe try out a Broadwell-E not replace my skylake.)

 

now for the problem.

from what I can tell this method seems to cause some system instability I have gotten to 104 MHz reference clock fairly easily; However when i got to about 105 MHz (with the BC multiplier of 40) even with the voltage turned up i get some instability and I cant seem to get anywhere close to 112.5!

 

Now for some guidelines about responses.

 

I'm not a stickler about things like double posting or anything sometimes i forget and even do it myself but I would appreciate it if we could stay semi on topic and avoid comments like "this is stupid its a lot of risk to your cpu for very little benefit". I am aware this is not the best safest way to do things... I just kinda want to do it because i can.

 

Also I ask you include as much information about your solution as possible voltage, reference clock, base clock, turbo clock, multipliers, even stuff like wattage and the color or your mobo are welcome (who knows maybe having the color purple in your build helps or something. Cant rule it out!).

 

Debate is encouraged but please don't argue just to argue and please try to avoid a prolonged argument about facts... Opinions and ideas are a good thing but bickering over whether 1+1 = 2 or 3 is just spammy and you should just agree to disagree at that point.

 

Oh also i like to read things and respond from my phone when i'm not at home so don't make fun of all the typos okay

[Enderman]

1) you have no idea what the base clock actually is.

 

2) there is no such thing as a "reference clock"  

 

3) what you are calling a reference clock is actually the "base clock" aka BCLK

 

4) what you normally change for overclocking is called the "multiplier"

 

5) you should not change the base clock, that is an unsafe way of overclocking and will likely yield worse results than changing the multiplier.

 

6) the only reason to change the base clock is if you have a locked CPU like a xeon or non-K.

 

7) please watch a few more overclocking tutorials on how to overclock properly using the multiplier.

[Imakuni]

11 minutes ago, Enderman said:

5) you should not change the base clock, that is an unsafe way of overclocking and will likely yield worse results than changing the multiplier.

 

6) the only reason to change the base clock is if you have a locked CPU like a xeon or non-K.

Wrong. This is so very wrong...

• For starters, it's not "unsafe". It's as safe as multiplier OCing.
• Next, it won't yield lower results. Nor better, for that matter... if we ignore the fact that bclk OCing also OCs RAM and cache, there's no difference in performance when comparing the same frequency achieve only through the multiplier. Stability can also go either way, being both more or less stable depending on your specific parts.
• And there are multiple reasons to change Bclk. Mind you, it was one of the big features that K Skylake had going for: Bclk OCing was finnaly back, allowing you to get intermediate frequencies such as 4263mhz, rather than sticking to a slower 4200mhz or an unstable 4300 (my results). It also allows you to better balance RAM and cache, by carefully tweaking the Bclk and it's multipliers.

I do agree with the other 5 points you've raised, though.

[Enderman]

8 minutes ago, Imakuni said:

Wrong. This is so very wrong...

• For starters, it's not "unsafe". It's as safe as multiplier OCing.
• Next, it won't yield lower results. Nor better, for that matter... if we ignore the fact that bclk OCing also OCs RAM and cache, there's no difference in performance when comparing the same frequency achieve only through the multiplier. Stability can also go either way, being both more or less stable depending on your specific parts.
• And there are multiple reasons to change Bclk. Mind you, it was one of the big features that K Skylake had going for: Bclk OCing was finnaly back, allowing you to get intermediate frequencies such as 4263mhz, rather than sticking to a slower 4200mhz or an unstable 4300 (my results). It also allows you to better balance RAM and cache, by carefully tweaking the Bclk and it's multipliers.

I do agree with the other 5 points you've raised, though.

Clearly you do not understand what BCLK is. Research it and maybe you will understand a bit more.

 

It is unsafe because it doesn't just change your CPU frequency, it changes the frequency of everything, your PCIe bus, your north bridge, etc...

Stuff that you DO NOT want changed due to stability issues.

 

That's also why you usually cannot push BCLK very far, because you begin having issues with stability for stuff other than your CPU.

Changing the multiplier only changes the CPU frequency, and that way you can push your CPU to the max without affecting everything else on your motherboard.

 

If you want to overclock ram then use XMP or set the frequency manually, do not change the BCLK and try to overclock 7 things at a time and then not know where the instability is coming from.

[SnowyMus]

27 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Clearly you do not understand what BCLK is. Research it and maybe you will understand a bit more.

 

It is unsafe because it doesn't just change your CPU frequency, it changes the frequency of everything, your PCIe bus, your north bridge, etc...

Stuff that you DO NOT want changed due to stability issues.

Intel processors have lacked a northbridge, thus a FSB, for quite a while.

[Imakuni]

10 minutes ago, Enderman said:

It is unsafe because it doesn't just change your CPU frequency, it changes the frequency of everything, your PCIe bus, your north bridge, etc...

Stuff that you DO NOT want changed due to stability issues.

Welcome to Skylake, which had those decoupled from the Bclk, allowing you to have whatever Bclk value you want without affecting other devices.

10 minutes ago, Enderman said:

That's also why you usually cannot push BCLK very far, because you begin having issues with stability for stuff other than your CPU.

Again, welcome to Sklyake. You couldn't push stuff like Haswell far exactly because other things were tied to it. Not the case here, though.

10 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Changing the multiplier only changes the CPU frequency, and that way you can push your CPU to the max without affecting everything else on your motherboard.

As I've stated, my CPU is unstable at 4300mhz. So what am I going to do, run it at 4200? No, I've increased the Bclk and snagged myself 4263, for that extra performance boost.

10 minutes ago, Enderman said:

If you want to overclock ram then use XMP or set the frequency manually, do not change the BCLK and try to overclock 7 things at a time and then not know where the instability is coming from.

While I agree that you shouldn't try to blind OC multiple things at a time, this is not the point. The point is to say "hey, this is the absolute max of each component, which has all of those weirdo numbers... how can I tweak the Blck + ech of the multipliers to get as close to the limit as possible?".

[ttam]

Nothing in this thread is right. 

 

Just no..

[Imakuni]

2 minutes ago, ttam said:

Nothing in this thread is right. 

 

Just no..

Too many wrong turns gotta make a right one sometimes, right? 

[SnowyMus]

24 minutes ago, ttam said:

Nothing in this thread is right. 

 

Just no..

It would help if somebody elaborated on this. I don't have enough knowledge on the subject to go off on a tangent and correct anybody/everybody.

 

58 minutes ago, Legeis said:

So I'm trying to OC my cpu in a.... not the most typical fashion... Why you ask? Why Not? also I saw on Reddit someone posted they got an extra 10% FPS jump using this method. 

 

So here is what i want to do. Rather than overclocing my cpu by adjusting the base clock multiplier i want to try raising the reference clock. 

 

Before i get into too much more detail here is my parts list > http://pcpartpicker.com/list/nrTdCy < although technically my graphics card is Nividia branded and not EVGA branded but that honestly shouldn't make a difference.

 

now for what I am attempting to achieve.

1. a reference clock of 112.5 MHz with a base clock multiplier of 40 for an over all base clock of 4.5 GHz. (A speed that is well established to be a good overclock for a 6700k using other methods)

2. Ideally a turbo clock multiplier of 44 for a turbo clock of 5 GHz. (while harder to achieve not out of the realm of possibility.)

3. some sort of system stability. (Yeah this one is hard I'm aware)

4. Not to fry my cpu. (Yeah technically intel lets me buy 2 cpus a year pretty cheap but I can't get another one from them until some time this fall and I was planning to use that opportunity to maybe try out a Broadwell-E not replace my skylake.)

 

now for the problem.

from what I can tell this method seems to cause some system instability I have gotten to 104 MHz reference clock fairly easily; However when i got to about 105 MHz (with the BC multiplier of 40) even with the voltage turned up i get some instability and I cant seem to get anywhere close to 112.5!

 

Now for some guidelines about responses.

 

I'm not a stickler about things like double posting or anything sometimes i forget and even do it myself but I would appreciate it if we could stay semi on topic and avoid comments like "this is stupid its a lot of risk to your cpu for very little benefit". I am aware this is not the best safest way to do things... I just kinda want to do it because i can.

 

Also I ask you include as much information about your solution as possible voltage, reference clock, base clock, turbo clock, multipliers, even stuff like wattage and the color or your mobo are welcome (who knows maybe having the color purple in your build helps or something. Cant rule it out!).

 

Debate is encouraged but please don't argue just to argue and please try to avoid a prolonged argument about facts... Opinions and ideas are a good thing but bickering over whether 1+1 = 2 or 3 is just spammy and you should just agree to disagree at that point.

 

Oh also i like to read things and respond from my phone when i'm not at home so don't make fun of all the typos okay

 

Pretty much any overclock will cause some stability unless you can actually spend forever on verifying it. Did you also reduce your RAM multiplier after increasing your BCLK? Both the RAM and CPU are affected here. I'd also make sure you keep turbo boost off until you've verified that the turbo boost is also stable.

 

Also, I'm not entirely sure how changing the BCLK is going to make much of a difference in performance over changing the multiplier. You get more granular control, I guess? Certainly not a 10% improvement unless your game was CPU-bound.

[Lays]

53 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Clearly you do not understand what BCLK is. Research it and maybe you will understand a bit more.

 

It is unsafe because it doesn't just change your CPU frequency, it changes the frequency of everything, your PCIe bus, your north bridge, etc...

Stuff that you DO NOT want changed due to stability issues.

 

That's also why you usually cannot push BCLK very far, because you begin having issues with stability for stuff other than your CPU.

Changing the multiplier only changes the CPU frequency, and that way you can push your CPU to the max without affecting everything else on your motherboard.

 

If you want to overclock ram then use XMP or set the frequency manually, do not change the BCLK and try to overclock 7 things at a time and then not know where the instability is coming from.

Skylake's BCLK is C O M P L E T E L Y  different than past generations, on a 6700k for instance, changing BCLK only changes memory multiplier, and cache multiplier.   It doesn't effect anything else like PCI-E and things like older generations did.

 

You can  run 200+ BCLK on Skylake if you turn your multipliers down.

43 minutes ago, Imakuni said:

Welcome to Skylake, which had those decoupled from the Bclk, allowing you to have whatever Bclk value you want without affecting other devices.

Again, welcome to Sklyake. You couldn't push stuff like Haswell far exactly because other things were tied to it. Not the case here, though.

As I've stated, my CPU is unstable at 4300mhz. So what am I going to do, run it at 4200? No, I've increased the Bclk and snagged myself 4263, for that extra performance boost.

While I agree that you shouldn't try to blind OC multiple things at a time, this is not the point. The point is to say "hey, this is the absolute max of each component, which has all of those weirdo numbers... how can I tweak the Blck + ech of the multipliers to get as close to the limit as possible?".

Usually BCLK oc'ing is quite useless unless your CPU won't go to the next "notch" but it'll go halfway or 3/4 there.

OR when you run out of memory dividers, some boards only go to like 3866, so you may have to increase BCLK up a notch to get past that 3866 mhz mark if you have faster memory.

 

Occasionally it's used for "low clock challenge" benchmark competitions, where they'll say... No frequency greater than 5003 mhz can be on the CPU, so to get the highest score you may end up having to do 4000 mhz memory divider with ~102.1 BCLK and 49 cache & CPU multiplier, to get higher memory speeds for the benchmark.

[Simon771]

You can be happy if BCKL is stable at 104  

usually this thing will crash your PC if you turn it up just by a little bit.

[AlphaPolack]

23 hours ago, Enderman said:

Clearly you do not understand what BCLK is. Research it and maybe you will understand a bit more.

 

It is unsafe because it doesn't just change your CPU frequency, it changes the frequency of everything, your PCIe bus, your north bridge, etc...

Stuff that you DO NOT want changed due to stability issues.

 

That's also why you usually cannot push BCLK very far, because you begin having issues with stability for stuff other than your CPU.

Changing the multiplier only changes the CPU frequency, and that way you can push your CPU to the max without affecting everything else on your motherboard.

 

If you want to overclock ram then use XMP or set the frequency manually, do not change the BCLK and try to overclock 7 things at a time and then not know where the instability is coming from.

/sigh

 

The one that needs to educate is @Enderman.

 

The OP is specing an i7-6700k (Skylake) cpu. The Z170 chipset isolates the bclk so that it only affects the CPU frequency and the memory frequency.

 

Yes, older chipsets everything was tied into the bclk, but Skylake and Z170 don't.

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/guides/7481/tweaktowns-ultimate-intel-skylake-overclocking-guide/index.html

 

 

 

[Enderman]

10 minutes ago, AlphaPolack said:

/sigh

 

The one that needs to educate is @Enderman.

 

The OP is specing an i7-6700k (Skylake) cpu. The Z170 chipset isolates the bclk so that it only affects the CPU frequency and the memory frequency.

 

Yes, older chipsets everything was tied into the bclk, but Skylake and Z170 don't.

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/guides/7481/tweaktowns-ultimate-intel-skylake-overclocking-guide/index.htm

 

 

First of all, intel made ASrock remove that bios which allowed non-k CPUs to be overclocked.

Second, the CPU clock speed is BCLK*multiplier, so other than getting more specific values there is no reaosn why a BCLK overclock would get higher than a multiplier overclock.

 

3x4 is the same as 4x3 fyi, that's how math works.

[Imakuni]

30 minutes ago, Enderman said:

First of all, intel made ASrock remove that bios which allowed non-k CPUs to be overclocked.

And Gigabyte / MSI / Asus as well. Though those older Bios are still available around the web.

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Imakuni said:

And Gigabyte / MSI / Asus as well. Though those older Bios are still available around the web.

Would you download a modded bios from some file hosting site that someone uploaded?

I personally wouldn't risk bricking my PC with that.

 

If you want to overclock, pay for a K CPU. Or go with AMD if you're cheap.

[Imakuni]

6 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Would you download a modded bios from some file hosting site that someone uploaded?

I personally wouldn't risk bricking my PC with that.

 

If you want to overclock, pay for a K CPU. Or go with AMD if you're cheap.

There's a difference in "a moded bios from some file hosting site" and "a bios that was released on the official manufacturer's page, but was pulled down just because Intel is a jerk". There's a very big difference.

 

For convenience, here: http://overclocking.guide/intel-skylake-non-k-overclocking-bios-list/

 

Not that I recommend actually doing it. In fact, I agree: too many downsides to locked Skylake OCing, buy a K CPU if you want to do so. Still, I won't let people spread wrong info; if I know someone said something wrong, I'll make sure to correct them.

[Lays]

52 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Would you download a modded bios from some file hosting site that someone uploaded?

I personally wouldn't risk bricking my PC with that.

 

If you want to overclock, pay for a K CPU. Or go with AMD if you're cheap.

They aren't modded bios, they're legitimate BIOS that were at one point released on the manufactures website, or on the official motherboard threads on HWBOT and it's not from some random person either. 

 

The people uploading the BIOS are the people that actually helped make them in the first place, people that are sponsored by the vendors that have inside access with the hardware manufacturers that are very recognized names on HWBOT and in the overclocking industry.  People like Elmor with Asus, Peppenero with MSI, Steponz with Gigabyte and so on. 

 

Also, the Asrock BIOS for non K OC is still available on the website for Z170M and Z170 OC Formula.

[Jumper118]

I can't even.....  Imakuni and lays are correct. 

 

You can oc unlocked  z87 and z97 chips by bclk I have got over 190mhz bclk on a 4770k and tweak town ran one at 175mhz bclk with a high multi stable as well. 

 

Skylake you can bclk any chip and there are retailers that sell none k oc bundles with full warranties so it's prefect legit way to oc and safe. 

[FPS-Russia]

I found people speculate before type sometimes here.

[Jumper118]

3 minutes ago, FPS-Russia said:

I found people speculate before type sometimes here.

I found people with >20k post are just spammers who I have no clue what they are talking about most of the time and just reply to every single thread and then argue and wreck the thread when they are wrong. 

[Legeis]

1ST  of all @Enderman I understand exactly what the difference between a baseclock, a baseclock multiplier and a reference clock is. I'm actually Intel certified through Intel's RTE program and work with computers for a living. 

 

2nd  @Imakuni and @Enderman Yes I am aware that BCLKING is not as stable as using the base multiplier as I stated in my original post I just want to try it because I can no other practical reason.

 

3rd I don't remember who said this exactly but as for having all the time in the world to verify manually. I do....I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing but I do have all the time in the world atm.

 

4th I specifically mentioned in my original post this was not the normal way you would overclock a cpu and that I just wanted to go for it anyways.

 

The Point of this thread was to generate ideas about things like voltage, temps, reference and baseclock values that could serve as a guide for new ideas and discussion about an area there is very little documentation about for the newer skylake processors. The Point of this thread was NOT to debate the underlying concept as I had already stated was not the best easiest solution in 99% of scenarios.

 

Also I had specifically asked that prolonged arguments over facts be avoided. Facts can be fairly easily looked up if someone says something you know to be wrong say "hey actually that doesn't apply here. here why (bla bla bla). you can even provide a reference link if you want. But don,t engage and encourage the argument.

[done12many2]

On 8/23/2016 at 5:50 AM, Jumper118 said:

I found people with >20k post are just spammers who I have no clue what they are talking about most of the time and just reply to every single thread and then argue and wreck the thread when they are wrong. 

 

This couldn't be more true.