Google ready to publically shame OEM who don't upgrade their Android devices

[Trixanity]

I just wish Google would fix the update problem already. I had high hopes for this Google IO but they didn't present any solution. 

 

The problem with going custom is that most devices have a lot of closed source code meaning you'll lose a lot when installing Cyanogenmod for example.

 

So the developers will have to use open source alternatives and they are often quite generic and lack optimization. The best example is the camera: they are all very proprietary in their software, so you will end up with horrible photos because the camera is running generic open source code instead of a highly tweaked both device and camera specific software which has been thoroughly optimized to perform as best as it can. 

[Energycore]

Is there a way for me to install marshmallow on my G3?

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Notional said:

How about you update your own crap instead of being lazy Google?

 

What if Microsoft started shaming Lenovo for not updating Windows? Makes no sense. Why is it that Linux stuff always sucks so badly in the consumer space?

Google is making updates.

You can't compare Windows (desktop) and Android because they work in completely different ways. Each OS for phones has to be specifically tailored to work on that particular phone. You can't make a generic image that can be installed on multiple phones. It just does not work (not even on Windows Phone).

 

2 hours ago, Notional said:

Only because Google allowed that to be an option. I mean why is that even possible? Again, Microsoft just updates Windows directly. Lenovo cannot and will not prevent that.

Why is it even possible? Because in order to get an update to work the manufacturer has to modify the version released by Google.

Lenovo can't prevent updates because anyone can download the update straight from Microsoft and install it. Try doing that with a mobile OS and you will brick your phone because the generic image will not work without modifications.

 

Just look at the Cyanogenmod download page. Each device has its own unique build which is tailored to work on that specific piece of hardware.

 

 

It's not OEMs blocking updates. It is OEMs not putting in the work needed to make updates work on the handsets they manufacture.

 

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

edit: android is not owned by anyone and i love android for its custom rom community, xposed modules, etc and if it wasnt linux based and open source none of those would exist so i would disagree with you on linux based stuff sucks

Android is owned by Google.

Just because something is open source doesn't mean nobody owns it.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

I just wish Google would fix the update problem already. I had high hopes for this Google IO but they didn't present any solution.

Don't hold your breath for a fix, because it basically impossible.

What people don't realize is how complex it is to make an OS work on an ARM device. People just assume that it is like on a desktop or laptop, where you can download a generic ISO and install it on basically any set of hardware. It does not work like that in the ARM world. Everything has to be custom tailored.

Just going to repeat that so that everyone understands the problem. The problem isn't that manufacturers or Google are blocking updates. The problem is that the updates released by Google has to be modified to work on each individual handset, and the OEMs can't be bothered to do that.

 

Let's say you are Samsung and you are releasing 15 devices every year (it is probably more). If you want to support all your devices for 3 years then that adds up to 45 devices. That's 45 devices that need to have each Android update specially tailored to their particular set of hardware. Some code can be reused, but not all of it.

If Google releases 4 major updates during that time then that's 180 custom tailored OS images you need to code and test.

 

23 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

So the developers will have to use open source alternatives and they are often quite generic and lack optimization. The best example is the camera: they are all very proprietary in their software, so you will end up with horrible photos because the camera is running generic open source code instead of a highly tweaked both device and camera specific software which has been thoroughly optimized to perform as best as it can. 

Sadly, the blame is on the chipset manufacturers. In Lollipop Google updated the camera APIs. They went from being crap, to being pretty fantastic. It should be possible to develop really good camera apps using the new "camera2" APIs. Steve Kondik explained why this isn't the case in this post:

Quote

+Mohamed Raanym Mentioned this elsewhere, but the chip maker isn't supporting HAL3 for msm8974. We did an independent port that's almost done, but the tradeoff is the loss of the custom features like Clear Image. The initial 12S release won't have HAL3, but it's not off the table for later.

 

Basically, chip manufacturers are fucking it up by:

1) Not providing documentation for their implementations.

2) Not following Google's guidelines.

3) Are implementing their own proprietary solutions instead.

 

It seems like things have gotten better though. I just checked on my LG G4 and it supports all the Camera2 features. That means an app like FV-5 (which is a really good third party camera app) should work flawlessly on it.

[themctipers]

Rather have os and security updates for 5 years on iOS than for 2 years and leave it a mess like the iPhone 3G. 

 

[SansVarnic]

Another reason the Windows series of Phone OS is superior, they update directly not through the carrier.

As @GoodBytes mentions Google should take a page and learn from it. Google is being lazy about this, there is no reason the OS updates should be this way its shody in my opinion.

[suicidalfranco]

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

• EVERYTHING is an app. Like everything. From SMS/MMS, to phone, to camera, gesture system, glance screen (that is when the phone is off/sleeping, you see the date and time and notifications, consuming very little power, especially for devices with OLED screens), everything.

already does that ever since ice cream sandwich (link)

 

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

All OS updates are managed by Microsoft servers like Windows updates, and not manufactures or carriers.

technically google also does that with it's personal line up: Nexus. But people simply won't accept the fact the fact that Touchwiz =/= Google Android, Optimus =/= Google Android or TouchWiz, MIUI =/= Google Android or Optimus or TouchWiz, FireOS =/= Google Anroid or MIUI or TouchWiz or Optimus and so on, so forth. Every manufacturers as it's own distribution, every manufacturers as it's Android base code tweaked to fit whatever the want to put in, every manufacturer's skin isn't just an overlay that stays on top of Android without touching what's under the hood and calling it a day. The only thing that MS does different here is, as you stated, to give the middle finger to carriers and not having to wait their approval.

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

OS and firmware can upgraded with plugging the phone to your computer and using Microsoft Device Recovery Tool, so if somehow things are blocked, you can by-pass it all.

Also a feature available on Android for as long as i can remember, some just use ADB others make an App out of it (Samsung has Skies, LG has LG mobile support tool etc etc), plus the recovery partition on the phone itself if you really are too lazy to plug it to the PC

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

already does that ever since ice cream sandwich (link)

Hmm, not to the same extent form what I can see... Windows 10 Mobile has: Network service, miracast, motion data, gesture & Touch, print dialog, ringtone, start screen, account login system, and more. But I guess you are right, I pulled my Android and I see that indeed they started doing this. Now, I don't know about the latest and greatest Android, as it seems that I need to buy a new Android phone due to blocked updates.

 

Quote

technically google also does that with it's personal line up: Nexus. But people simply won't accept the fact the fact that Touchwiz =/= Google Android, Optimus =/= Google Android or TouchWiz, MIUI =/= Google Android or Optimus or TouchWiz, FireOS =/= Google Anroid or MIUI or TouchWiz or Optimus and so on, so forth. Every manufacturers as it's own distribution, every manufacturers as it's Android base code tweaked to fit whatever the want to put in, every manufacturer's skin isn't just an overlay that stays on top of Android without touching what's under the hood and calling it a day. The only thing that MS does different here is, as you stated, to give the middle finger to carriers and not having to wait their approval.

With Nexus yes. But outside of that, Google doesn't package anything. Each company needs to get the source code, modify it to their needs, develop and compile the drivers, test, package, and distribute. Vanilla Android phone still has to go through this. Android is not being distributed like Windows. The main reason for this, is that doing so, consume a lot of space (I mean look how many drivers Windows has built-in, and has an entire structure it worked with companies/industry over many years to create "generic drivers" for the OS so that you get something working while not having the right drivers, plus you have the whole structure to manage all this. Heck Windows 10 Mobile doesn't go that far. Not to mention that it cost performance as well, as you have additional layers to this, including security. But Windows 10 Mobile does support many devices, but in result, while Android runs on anything, Windows 10 Mobile actually doesn't. If a manufacture wants to use unsupported CPU, they have to work/wait/push Microsoft for support. Witch Android, the manufacture has the source code, and can modify it to make it work with a certain type of CPU and go around its limitations.

 

So while having to do all this, manufactures goes: Might as well do our own GUI experience.

Which they want to, as else, why would pick a Samsung phone, over say, an LG (for example) with identical specs? There is no reason. Manufacture wants to differentiate themselves. Now, personally, I don't know why they freak out on this. I mean, you don't see Dell, HP, Acer, etc. do the same with their system, beside a few apps here and there that they include (and probably would be nice, if they didn't outsource it all on the cheap, or hire qualified and experience developers, which ever they do things).

 

Quote

Also a feature available on Android for as long as i can remember, some just use ADB others make an App out of it (Samsung has Skies, LG has LG mobile support tool etc etc), plus the recovery partition on the phone itself if you really are too lazy to plug it to the PC

Yea, but not all manufacture has that (beside the recovery part), and each manufacture is different. Here in Microsoft case, they cover phone not made by them. So you have 1 tool for everything. It is all part of the arrangement in selling Windows 10 Mobile device, if I am not mistaken.

[M4st4M1nd]

Honestly I don't see why people are so worried about this. Android phones are generally updated for as long as they last, only a few crappy manufacturers don't do this. If they continued to upgrade the phones beyond this point they'd end up becoming bogged down and slow just like old Apple devices do. I'd much rather my phone still works properly than be a slow piece of crap then upgrade to a new device which'll come with the latest software. This all makes total sense and I don't see it as an issue at all.

[Misanthrope]

14 hours ago, Notional said:

How about you update your own crap instead of being lazy Google?

 

What if Microsoft started shaming Lenovo for not updating Windows? Makes no sense. Why is it that Linux stuff always sucks so badly in the consumer space?

Umm, you do realize that it was carriers and phone makers that insist on their own autonomy to deliver updates right? In fact I venture to say part of the success of Android is that Google left that up to carriers and phone makers, something Apple doesn't do, because ultimately they like to control when those updates happen.

[Bouzoo]

33 minutes ago, M4st4M1nd said:

Honestly I don't see why people are so worried about this. Android phones are generally updated for as long as they last, only a few crappy manufacturers don't do this. 

Iirc, Galaxy S3,  which is one of all time greats, had official support for 2 years max? If not only for 1.5 year. My G2 stopped getting updates a year ago iirc as well. The phone is less than 3 years old. It might get 6.0 but nothing is official. If it gets it, I think that might be the record for the longest official Android support. And those were best phones from their era from some of biggest manufacturers. Now imagine less popular devices. It's not that good, android support is pretty bad in general. And we have to wait months for our carriers to release updates. Not talking 1-2 months, but 4+.

[suicidalfranco]

13 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

Iirc, Galaxy S3,  which is one of all time greats, had official support for 2 years max? If not only for 1.5 year. My G2 stopped getting updates a year ago iirc as well. The phone is less than 3 years old. It might get 6.0 but nothing is official. If it gets it, I think that might be the record for the longest official Android support. And those were best phones from their era from some of biggest manufacturers. Now imagine less popular devices. It's not that good, android support is pretty bad in general. And we have to wait months for our carriers to release updates. Not talking 1-2 months, but 4+.

if there's record holder i think it's the galaxy S2 who go support from gingerbread up to kit kat

[zacRupnow]

The last version of KitKat was the last good version of Android. New shit versions are still better than iOS though. Last good iOS was 6, last good OSX was Snow Leopard.

[spellmanuk]

15 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

snip

htc are propbably one of the best since there skins are so light dont qutoe me on this but im pretty sure my m8 is still receiving updates (i dont use it any more)  im also considering getting the htc 10 since its such a solid android phone. as for if this tactic will work? i dont think so to be honest its kind of pointless in my eyes samsung dgaf so that cuts out like 80% of the market the only people that care about them doing this will more than likly have a  device that is well updaded such as a nexus or 1+2 ect.

[Trixanity]

25 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

if there's record holder i think it's the galaxy S2 who go support from gingerbread up to kit kat

False. I had one. It stopped at 4.1.2 Jelly Bean. That was in 2013. 

10 minutes ago, zacRupnow said:

The last version of KitKat was the last good version of Android. New shit versions are still better than iOS though. Last good iOS was 6, last good OSX was Snow Leopard.

On what grounds? 

[Bouzoo]

34 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

if there's record holder i think it's the galaxy S2 who go support from gingerbread up to kit kat

According to Sammobile the last official one was 4.1.2.

[zacRupnow]

16 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

On what grounds? 

The grounds of opinionated statements. 

[Trixanity]

8 minutes ago, zacRupnow said:

The grounds of opinionated statements. 

I see. Well, an unsubstantiated opinion is of no value. 

Obligatory: 

[suicidalfranco]

21 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

According to Sammobile the last official one was 4.1.2.

 

28 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

False. I had one. It stopped at 4.1.2 Jelly Bean. That was in 2013. 

oh yeah you're both right, i used the S3 ported rom back then. Completely forgot i had done that.

[zacRupnow]

12 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

I see. Well, an unsubstantiated opinion is of no value. 

I can provide reasons, but they are almost all reasons that come down to opinion.

For example: UI Navigations are faster in KitKat, you can go to the home screen from the tabs screen by touching the background, text can be smaller, more UI elements can be onscreen (up to 20 emails can be displayed on gmail in Kitkat, in new OS only 5-10), everything is bigger, all UI is lighter in colour and Opinion - UI colour pallet is trash, Opinion- the newer versions material design makes it awful to use when compared to KitKat.

[Trixanity]

27 minutes ago, zacRupnow said:

I can provide reasons, but they are almost all reasons that come down to opinion.

For example: UI Navigations are faster in KitKat, you can go to the home screen from the tabs screen by touching the background, text can be smaller, more UI elements can be onscreen (up to 20 emails can be displayed on gmail in Kitkat, in new OS only 5-10), everything is bigger, all UI is lighter in colour and Opinion - UI colour pallet is trash, Opinion- the newer versions material design makes it awful to use when compared to KitKat.

That's all I wanted. 

 

 

The UI scaling is stupid - that I agree on. They continue to use higher and higher resolution displays but maintain ever larger DPI numbers on UI scaling, although it's up to the developer, especially the ROM developer (including OEMs) to lower the DPI; some are worse than others.

Android should implement a working universal UI scaling option (possibly with fine-grained control) and on that note: they should develop a color management system, so everything respects different color spaces, so wide gamut displays actually work properly. 

 

Not sure what you refer to when you say tabs screen. 

 

I'm generally a fan of Material design, although there are bad things. I guess in many ways I'm actually just a fan of a unified UI/UX. 

[spartaman64]

14 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

Another reason the Windows series of Phone OS is superior, they update directly not through the carrier.

As @GoodBytes mentions Google should take a page and learn from it. Google is being lazy about this, there is no reason the OS updates should be this way its shody in my opinion.

except google cant do that because its open source so they phone manufacturers decide how to distribute the version they made