An idea for AMD

[Sat1600]

I think that even the most optimistic outlooks put Zen performance at haswell/broadwell territory in terms of performance. If that's true AMD would have to price Zen cheaper than those cpus in order to be competitive and turn a profit

 

The thing is with all the money they spent developing Zen. I can't see how much cheaper they can go. The fx 8370 is priced around $210. 

 

So here is my idea.  (Not that I have any pull with AMD). AMD should cut a deal with Microsoft to include a windows licence with every AM4 motherboard. With volume licensing this would cost them $10 to $20 per board which they could include in the price of the chipset.

 

This would save the end user around $100. That could be enough of a savings to put them over the edge.

 

Could intel do then same?  Sure.  Would they?  No.  Because they're intel, they would not feel the need to. If the strategy would work and intel felt the pressure to do it to, that would mean that AMD had sold enough chips to right the ship.

 

This would not be great for Linux users of coarse because they would have to pay for an OS that they don't need. But for everyone else if would be great. 

 

So what do you think? If Zen has Haswell/ broadwell performance and was similarly priced, but came with a windows licence,  would that ne enough of a savings to entice you? 

[Taswell]

The Problem is AMD doesn't have the money to cut a deal with Microsoft,But seeing as Microsoft is in the hole right now with windows 10 and is expected to be in the hole for a couple years at this rate, they might consider it after the free upgrade period has expired.  

 

But very unlikely 

[mikat]

would be nice for the end consumer but doubt it's going to happen

[AshleyAshes]

The VAST majority of consumer computer component sales do not ACTUALLY go to those who build their machines al a carte like those on LTT typically do.  They are mostly all sold as preassembled computers which already include Windows.  So this idea has no effect on the largest portion of consumer sales.

 

Also, your idea is a basically a big 'Fuck You' to anyone who would already have Windows licenses that they would like to use or reuse in their builds.

[beach_boy98]

AMD need to go back to the old days. This is when they had the same performance/features as Intel For a lower cost and slights higher power consumption/ heat output.

[QueenDemetria]

I wouldn't want Microsoft Windows to be bundled with my... anything.

[Sat1600]

9 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

The VAST majority of consumer computer component sales do not ACTUALLY go to those who build their machines al a carte like those on LTT typically do.  They are mostly all sold as preassembled computers which already include Windows.  So this idea has no effect on the largest portion of consumer sales.

 

Also, your idea is a basically a big 'Fuck You' to anyone who would already have Windows licenses that they would like to use or reuse in their builds.

True, but whatever AMD has to do to get into more HPs and Dells probably has more to do with marketing.

 

The DIY market is still a big part of AMD'S business. Whatever they can do to improve that would go a long way to helping them

[2001jaden]

An idea for AMD, just sell server stuff and professional grade hardware by the bucket load

[Sat1600]

1 hour ago, QueenDemetria said:

I wouldn't want Microsoft Windows to be bundled with my... anything.

What OS do you use?

[QueenDemetria]

25 minutes ago, Sat1600 said:

What OS do you use?

Ubuntu on most of my machines, Windows 7 for when I need Windows(I have 8.1 on a couple machines, not by choice though).

[othertomperson]

1 hour ago, 2001jaden said:

An idea for AMD, just sell server stuff and professional grade hardware by the bucket load

Pretty much. Does anyone really think that Intel makes most of their profit through selling Pentiums and Celerons to plebs? Or Nvidia make a killing from 950s?

 

Ditching Opterons in favour of extremely low end APUs is possibly the most infuriatingly idiotic move AMD have made, and that's saying something.

[Paranoid Kami]

I don't want to have to buy a CPU and then go through the hassle of selling the Windows license that came with it. I would rather if it was just cheaper.

[Sat1600]

41 minutes ago, Paranoid Kami said:

I don't want to have to buy a CPU and then go through the hassle of selling the Windows license that came with it. I would rather if it was just cheaper.

If it was cheaper it would be $10 cheaper. Microsoft sells windows in volume for pennies on the dollar.

 

Most DIY builders use windows. And it costs $80 to $120 for that licence.

[Sat1600]

1 hour ago, othertomperson said:

Pretty much. Does anyone really think that Intel makes most of their profit through selling Pentiums and Celerons to plebs? Or Nvidia make a killing from 950s?

 

Ditching Opterons in favour of extremely low end APUs is possibly the most infuriatingly idiotic move AMD have made, and that's saying something.

I don't think AMD is spending all this money on Zen in order to put it in servers. It's coming to enthusiasts systems first for a reason. It's a niche market for sure. But that's where they are right now.

[othertomperson]

14 minutes ago, Sat1600 said:

I don't think AMD is spending all this money on Zen in order to put it in servers. It's coming to enthusiasts systems first for a reason. It's a niche market for sure. But that's where they are right now.

There's a reason the 3960X, 4960X and 5960X didn't have integrated graphics and were on the X79/X99 platform. They were modified Xeons. There's a reason the Titans up-to but not including the Titan X had good double precision performance. The enthusiast and prosumer markets cross over hugely. Instead of focussing on this tiny tiny niche, both Intel and Nvidia have focussed on big money applications, and then trickled that down to enthusiasts and consumers and as a result both companies are massively profitable, while AMD is in a very precarious position right now.

[BrinkGG]

3 hours ago, Sat1600 said:

I think that even the most optimistic outlooks put Zen performance at haswell/broadwell territory in terms of performance. If that's true AMD would have to price Zen cheaper than those cpus in order to be competitive and turn a profit

 

The thing is with all the money they spent developing Zen. I can't see how much cheaper they can go. The fx 8370 is priced around $210. 

 

So here is my idea.  (Not that I have any pull with AMD). AMD should cut a deal with Microsoft to include a windows licence with every AM4 motherboard. With volume licensing this would cost them $10 to $20 per board which they could include in the price of the chipset.

 

This would save the end user around $100. That could be enough of a savings to put them over the edge.

 

Could intel do then same?  Sure.  Would they?  No.  Because they're intel, they would not feel the need to. If the strategy would work and intel felt the pressure to do it to, that would mean that AMD had sold enough chips to right the ship.

 

This would not be great for Linux users of coarse because they would have to pay for an OS that they don't need. But for everyone else if would be great. 

 

So what do you think? If Zen has Haswell/ broadwell performance and was similarly priced, but came with a windows licence,  would that ne enough of a savings to entice you? 

Here's the problem. The price may go up some, but I haven't bought a key from Microsoft in YEARS. $35 is the most I've spent on a key, usually getting it from kinguin, G2A, or the Reddit software swap. And don't tell me its illegal. Its just a difference of Retail vs. an OEM key. If you know your way around regedit and command prompt, removing a key from one computer and reactivating it on another computer isn't a big deal. And with windows 10 supposedly being "the last Microsoft OS", I shouldn't need to buy a key again. 

[Prysin]

3 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

The VAST majority of consumer computer component sales do not ACTUALLY go to those who build their machines al a carte like those on LTT typically do.  They are mostly all sold as preassembled computers which already include Windows.  So this idea has no effect on the largest portion of consumer sales.

 

Also, your idea is a basically a big 'Fuck You' to anyone who would already have Windows licenses that they would like to use or reuse in their builds.

with windows 10, when you swap mobo/CPU, your windows license is invalidated and you must buy a new one. If you do not buy a new one, you wont get any updates to your system.

[Prysin]

1 hour ago, othertomperson said:

Pretty much. Does anyone really think that Intel makes most of their profit through selling Pentiums and Celerons to plebs? Or Nvidia make a killing from 950s?

 

Ditching Opterons in favour of extremely low end APUs is possibly the most infuriatingly idiotic move AMD have made, and that's saying something.

actually, APUs have made AMD a fucking ton of money, ironically.

I dont know how, but their own financial reports says so.

[Sat1600]

15 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

There's a reason the 3960X, 4960X and 5960X didn't have integrated graphics and were on the X79/X99 platform. They were modified Xeons. There's a reason the Titans up-to but not including the Titan X had good double precision performance. The enthusiast and prosumer markets cross over hugely. Instead of focussing on this tiny tiny niche, both Intel and Nvidia have focussed on big money applications, and then trickled that down to enthusiasts and consumers and as a result both companies are massively profitable, while AMD is in a very precarious position right now.

AMD tried to get into those markets. Intel bribed and threatened OEMs in order to keep AMD out. They got sued and payed fines for that but AMD never recovered.

 

Now AMD has made plenty of mistakes and maybe nothing can help them at this point. But to think that the enthusiast market is unimportant to them is silly. I think this is an idea that can help them in this market.

 

If course it's just pipe dreams though

[othertomperson]

5 minutes ago, Sat1600 said:

AMD tried to get into those markets. Intel bribed and threatened OEMs in order to keep AMD out. They got sued and payed fines for that but AMD never recovered.

 

Now AMD has made plenty of mistakes and maybe nothing can help them at this point. But to think that the enthusiast market is unimportant to them is silly. I think this is an idea that can help them in this market.

 

If course it's just pipe dreams though

OEMs have nothing to do with it. I'm talking about cloud compute services and supercomputers, servers and workstations -- I'm talking about the HP computers rendering for Pixar, not the HP computers you buy from Walmart or wherever.

 

Look at the Steam Hardware Survey. These are already enthusiasts. How many of these people are even using Fury X and X99 grade parts? Hardly any. You do not support your business by relying on the niche.

[AshleyAshes]

Who in their right mind would use AMD in servers?  Have you SEEN their TDPs?  Power consumption/distrobution and HVAC demands are a big cost concern for server farm operations.

[AshleyAshes]

21 minutes ago, Prysin said:

with windows 10, when you swap mobo/CPU, your windows license is invalidated and you must buy a new one. If you do not buy a new one, you wont get any updates to your system.

You actually just have to Call MS's activation support like and they'll activate your install on the new hardware.  (And deactivate it for any instance of the old hardware).  I've had to do it.  It's honestly not that hard.  But thanks for the make believe doom and gloom.

[Sat1600]

10 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

OEMs have nothing to do with it. I'm talking about cloud compute services and supercomputers, servers and workstations -- I'm talking about the HP computers rendering for Pixar, not the HP computers you buy from Walmart or wherever.

 

Look at the Steam Hardware Survey. These are already enthusiasts. How many of these people are even using Fury X and X99 grade parts? Hardly any. You do not support your business by relying on the niche.

We are talking about Zen though. This is going to be a consumer cpu and it is being released to enthusiast first. Maybe AMD is misplacing their efforts as you say. However my thought was "what if" they tried this?

 

Yes their lack of presence in the business market is ruining them, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about marketing to the enthusiast market. Which is something that is obviously important to them.

[BrightCandle]

The only way Zen survives is in being a good product, bundling Windows is just a price cut but only for the few people who need it and not universally. That is still a budget CPU for cheaper than Intel at that point. Launching with 2013 performance at the end of 2016 beginning of 2017 isn't going to work out well for them, they will go bankrupt if that is all AMD has. If they overdose on integer performance again and under-perform in floating point they may at least survive on the basis of server sales but it wont succeed in the desktop space as anything but a budget option, which is how AMD has been surviving just about for quite a long time.

 

I just don't see how a company like AMD survives, it already fired most of its R&D staff just to stay in business longer but that just reduces its ability to compete. This failure didn't start with the design of Zen it started over a decade ago with the strategies put in place by the CEO/CTO and the choices they made for AMDs future plans. They chose to pursue technical advances that didn't pay off and even at the time were risky plays on the future of the industry.

 

I hope Zen is awesome, I really want more cores and more per core performance for less money who wouldn't?! Wanting their to be competition isn't the same as actually having some. The best thing for the x86 part of the industry is for AMD to go under, because we genuinely do have a monopoly and the regulators can do something about it and people will be bothered by knowing only Intel exists, competition will fill the space. But while AMD still exists we all believe their is some amount of competition in the market where really there isn't, only true die hard fans can buy those CPUs and its been true for years. AMD can't survive purely on underdog status and its marketing strategy forever it needs an actual 2016 product.

[othertomperson]

3 hours ago, Sat1600 said:

We are talking about Zen though. This is going to be a consumer cpu and it is being released to enthusiast first. Maybe AMD is misplacing their efforts as you say. However my thought was "what if" they tried this?

 

Yes their lack of presence in the business market is ruining them, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about marketing to the enthusiast market. Which is something that is obviously important to them.

You don't get to quote a post of mine then dictate what "we" are talking about. If I say I am talking about their need for a presence in the business sector, then that's what I'm talking about. If you're talking about something else, you should probably be quoting someone else.