MSI GTX 960 4GB or MSI R9 380?

[don_svetlio]

But the game was being run at console settings at best. Video sucked so I couldn't tell that much. It's after the Godrays and shadow distance cross medium you'll see a massive bottleneck. That and the lower CPU load because of the Nvidia drivers also make the video a poor example.

OP also has an option for a cheap 960 but people seem to ignore it.

[Majestic]

Yes, lets buy another new GPU when he already has a GPU that's too fast for it's CPU.

 

You just never stop giving out bad advice huh.

[App4that]

OP also has an option for a cheap 960 but people seem to ignore it.

No, that's not being ignored. But having a realistic expectation on the performance of that 960 is important.

[UCG_Gaddafi]

R9 290, is it the reference cooler? Or is it from a brand such as MSI/XFX/Sapphire, etc or no? The r9 290 stock cooler is very hot, 92c+. It will out perform a 960 easily. Just make sure hte case fits.

[Shoob]

Oh boy, an 8 page topic topic comparing two different category GPUs?!?

 

How did it derail that much? Isn't the choice obvious?

[don_svetlio]

gee thanks mate.

 

now, sorry but i am busy calling out @Majestic on being a kneejerk in every single conversation he enters.

he is almost as toxic to this forum as Nena360 is to factual discussions...

You missed the part where he spend 2 pages arguing with the mods whether they should remove me due to "bad advice"

[Majestic]

-snip-

 

Mate, i've also been there. And through making mistakes I've learned that iterative upgrading is the worst possible thing you can do. You buy a new GPU and get bottlenecked by your CPU. Then when you upgrade the GPU is already outdated again. Especially when you have to wait a year for said upgrade.

 

He already has a GTX 950, how can you posssibly rationalize buying a new card when that will in no way provide any tangible upgrade from that card, since both the 950 and 290 would be bottlenecked. The 290 even more so in games like fallout 4. 

 

YOu are advising him to spend $250 on a card which will not help him gain performance at all. Now do you finally realise how terrible your advice is?

[Prysin]

Mate, i've also been there. And through making mistakes I've learned that iterative upgrading is the worst possible thing you can do. You buy a new GPU and get bottlenecked by your CPU. Then when you upgrade the GPU is already outdated again. Especially when you have to wait a year for said upgrade.

 

He already has a GTX 950, how can you posssibly rationalize buying a new card when that will in no way provide any tangible upgrade from that card, since both the 950 and 290 would be bottlenecked. The 290 even more so in games like fallout 4. 

 

YOu are advising him to spend $250 on a card which will not help him gain performance at all. Now do you finally realise how terrible your advice is?

i will give you, that in this case you are right.

 

he is better off getting something better, like a i3 6100, or FX 6300 if he want to save on the RAM expenses.

[App4that]

Leave him, he's not worth the time and effort.

I'm not saying this happened because you advised a Nvidia product.

[Majestic]

i will give you, that in this case you are right.

 

he is better off getting something better, like a i3 6100, or FX 6300 if he want to save on the RAM expenses.

 

And that's all i've been saying. But he relentlessly persisted in saying it's a good idea. For pages on end. And OP was still listening and undecided.

 

That is really frustrating.

 

And you can't just drop in at the very end, and start laying down judgement. Beause you missed the prelude.

[don_svetlio]

Mate, i've also been there. And through making mistakes I've learned that iterative upgrading is the worst possible thing you can do. You buy a new GPU and get bottlenecked by your CPU. Then when you upgrade the GPU is already outdated again. Especially when you have to wait a year for said upgrade.

 

He already has a GTX 950, how can you posssibly rationalize buying a new card when that will in no way provide any tangible upgrade from that card, since both the 950 and 290 would be bottlenecked. The 290 even more so in games like fallout 4. 

 

YOu are advising him to spend $250 on a card which will not help him gain performance at all. Now do you finally realise how terrible your advice is?

Thing is he can get a 960 for pocket change when he sells the 950 to his friend ._.

 

i will give you, that in this case you are right.

 

he is better off getting something better, like a i3 6100, or FX 6300 if he want to save on the RAM expenses.

[don_svetlio]

I'm not saying this happened because you advised a Nvidia product.

No shit >.<

[Morgan MLGman]

-snip-

I had an Athlon X4 750K + GTX 660, swapped to a GTX 970 after the 660 died and saw MASSIVE performance improvement in ALL games I played, have you ever ran a high end GPU + low end CPU combo? In some games the performance was limited by the CPU pretty heavily (Witcher 3) but in some games (Tomb Raider) it was flawless.

To conclude, if he can afford a faster GPU, he should get a faster GPU. He can upgrade his CPU down the road when he only gets the money, he still will only benefit from the faster GPU.

[Prysin]

He WILL gain performance in some games and not in others. At the end of the day he gets a better card for literally a few dollars.

indeed he will, however it is better to aim at gaining performance in ALL games, not just some.

 

therefore, a new CPU is a better idea.

Sure it may not be explicitly needed for the titles he play today. But time moves on, and new games comes out. It is better to be prepared, then assume you still got the grunt.

Yes the Q61xx whatever WILL bottleneck even a 950. Not by huge amounts. a 950 is just a cut down 960, so it will bottleneck a 960 for sure.

 

What OP needs is a stronger, budget CPU. In which case, his 200 ish USD is better spent on a new motherboard and CPU. Not because he must, but because that is the only thing that will truly make any improvements.

 

you also forget that graphics cards get driver optimizations, they "can get better over time". A CPU just does what it does from day one. Rarely if ever do we see chipset or bios updates causing increases in CPU performance, and when we do, those increases are usually really small. So a more potent CPU will do him better for now. The 950 is more then capable of playing games at decent settings for a while longer

 

EDIT: The CPU is also responsible for general performance "perception". A faster CPU will reduce loading times in games, make opening browsers faster, make booting up slightly faster.

The GPU will only help in TWO tasks. And it will only successfully help in ONE of those two.

GPU can accelerate programs, but given how weak the current CPU is, it isnt going to do that much.

GPU will drastically increase FPS to a point.

 

 

Also, weaker CPU + stronger GPU works great, but the lagspikes are REALLY bad. This is the same reason why i say DO NOT USE A G3258 FOR GAMING. Because, while it CAN produce high average FPS, it has abysmal minimums. Any dual core or low powered quad core will be in the same boat as the G3258. just FINE for light gaming. Horrible once you try to push it.

[MEC-777]

The fact that you cannot comprehend how poor people upgrade is the very reason I continue to give the same advice - HE DOES NOT HAVE THE FUNDS YOU HAVE. Get that through your skull and let people who've been there give advice

 

Except @Majestic wasn't saying anything about cost. He was simply saying that it's not ideal to upgrade the GPU from what the OP has at this time. 

 

Also, @Majestic, can you please calm down? This isn't a life or death situation. We're talking about PC hardware. I don't see the need to get so upset to the point of name calling and slinging insults. Just keep it civil please. Whether don is right or not is irrelevant to the fact that your are (or are very close to) breaking the CoC.

[airdeano]

ok, some may have missed our update links at the top of all forum pages:

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/965477-community-standards/

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not all has really changed from the elder Code of Conduct, just streamlined.

so we'll have to ask those that still believe attacking others is ok, it is not.

you can easily discuss, but once you start down the road on personal attacks,

then you now know how these will be dealt with..

[Prysin]

I had an Athlon X4 750K + GTX 660, swapped to a GTX 970 after the 660 died and saw MASSIVE performance improvement in ALL games I played, have you ever ran a high end GPU + low end CPU combo? In some games the performance was limited by the CPU pretty heavily (Witcher 3) but in some games (Tomb Raider) it was flawless.

To conclude, if he can afford a faster GPU, he should get a faster GPU. He can upgrade his CPU down the road when he only gets the money, he still will only benefit from the faster GPU.

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/22?vs=1284

 

Athlon 750k vs OPs Phenom X4 9750...

 

look at single thread. IF a bulldozer based Athlon, which already has abyssmal single core performance is THAT much better. Imagine how that thing will struggle?!

Even OCd to 2.7GHz, that CPU will have issues

 

look...

Phenom X4 9950 (2.6GHz version of 9750) vs 750k

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/21?vs=1284

 

even then. STILL getting crushed.

 

now, lets do a FX 6300 vs 9750

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/22?vs=699

 

look, we are talking nearly double the single core and 60% higher multi core.... from

 

an i3 6100 would be even better.

 

It is not that his hardware isnt up to snuff. Its just that this time. you are better off with a new CPU.

 

The x4 9750 uses the AM2 socket... look at the feature set of his board:

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gama78lms2h

DDR2

No Sata 3 (6GB/s)

NO VRM HEATSINK

 

 

@glitchmaster0001

this is what you should buy:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($114.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Motherboard: ASRock Z170 Pro4S ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($82.98 @ Newegg)

Memory: GeIL EVO POTENZA 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($49.99 @ Newegg)

Total: $247.96

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-20 14:15 EST-0500

 

OR

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor  ($98.89 @ OutletPC)

Motherboard: ASRock 970M PRO3 Micro ATX AM3+/AM3 Motherboard  ($63.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 Memory  ($39.99 @ Newegg)

Total: $202.87

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-20 14:16 EST-0500

 

The first option is the "better". It will be faster despite being a dual core with hyperthreading.

The second option is the "cheaper". It will work just fine but there is no real way to upgrade it. So if you decide to go for the second option, you will be stuck with it. In terms of performance, the FX setup will be equal to a Intel i3 4170.

The Intel i3 6100 is superior to BOTH the FX and the i3 4170.

 

Read the part above your name to see WHY you should get a new CPU rather then new GPU.

[MEC-777]

I had an Athlon X4 750K + GTX 660, swapped to a GTX 970 after the 660 died and saw MASSIVE performance improvement in ALL games I played, have you ever ran a high end GPU + low end CPU combo? In some games the performance was limited by the CPU pretty heavily (Witcher 3) but in some games (Tomb Raider) it was flawless.

To conclude, if he can afford a faster GPU, he should get a faster GPU. He can upgrade his CPU down the road when he only gets the money, he still will only benefit from the faster GPU.

 

The 750k is arguably quite a bit more powerful than the CPU the OP is using. Those Athlon X4's (750, 760, 860k's) are arguably the best entry-level gaming CPUs currently available for the money. They are also what I (and many others) would consider as the bare minimum for modern gaming and paring with modern mid-range GPUs (960's, 970's etc.). So that comparison doesn't really apply.

[glitchmaster0001]

It totally depends on the games you play and at what resolution/settings as well whether or not you will see gains from going to a 380. I have a q6600 @3.0 and a 270. In DOTA 2 for example, I get the same FPS @ 1080p minimum settings/no AA as I do @ 1440p max settings/with AA. 100% cpu bottlenck.

 

I could test it with my 7950, but I'm sure I'd see exactly the same FPS with that card because I am so far below 100% usage on the 270 and the driver overhead would be exactly the same (both GCN 1.0). FWIW, I run my 270 @800/1200mhz/-20% power because it bottlenecks so hard.

 

 

OP, check your usage with the 950 in a bunch of different titles. If you are seeing full GPU usage in some of them, you might see better performance from a 380 in those titles (I say might because there is still the driver overhead issue which shifts the bottleneck even further on the cpu with an AMD card). If you aren't getting 100% (99%) usage in the games you like playing there is no reason to change cards without upgrading the cpu IMO.

 

ive used MSI afterbuner to test all my games and i come to the conclusion that in fallout 4 and minecraft my cpu heavily bottlenecks the SH*T out of my gtx 950. although i got my 950 knowing there would be a huge bottleneck in the system. the rest of my games used the GPU (GTX 950) at around the 90 percents and the cpu at around 50 or 60 percent. in fallout 4 and minecraft it was vise versa. CPU was hanging at 99 to 100 percent while the GPU hung at 15 to 36 percent.  in fallout 4 at lowest setting. were asin minecraft with high settings plus shaders ultra it was hanging at 60 fps max and 15 fps min with cpu load at 50 to 80%  and gpu from 40 to 78%. in cpu bound games the bottleneck becomes very imminent and in GPU bound games it's barely noticeable. 

[don_svetlio]

Except @Majestic wasn't saying anything about cost. He was simply saying that it's not ideal to upgrade the GPU from what the OP has at this time. 

 

Also, @Majestic, can you please calm down? This isn't a life or death situation. We're talking about PC hardware. I don't see the need to get so upset to the point of name calling and slinging insults. Just keep it civil please. Whether don is right or not is irrelevant to the fact that your are (or are very close to) breaking the CoC.

I also speak from a cost standpoint. if hew as paying full price I'd not be advocating a 960

[Prysin]

ive used MSI afterbuner to test all my games and i come to the conclusion that in fallout 4 and minecraft my cpu heavily bottlenecks the SH*T out of my gtx 950. although i got my 950 knowing there would be a huge bottleneck in the system. the rest of my games used the GPU (GTX 950) at around the 90 percents and the cpu at around 50 or 60 percent. in fallout 4 and minecraft it was vise versa. CPU was hanging at 99 to 100 percent while the GPU hung at 15 to 36 percent.  in fallout 4 at lowest setting. were asin minecraft with high settings plus shaders ultra it was hanging at 60 fps max and 15 fps min with cpu load at 50 to 80%  and gpu from 40 to 78%. in cpu bound games the bottleneck becomes very imminent and in GPU bound games it's barely noticeable. 

see my previous post.

these would be the best solution for you!

[KeltonDSMer]

ive used MSI afterbuner to test all my games and i come to the conclusion that in fallout 4 and minecraft my cpu heavily bottlenecks the SH*T out of my gtx 950. although i got my 950 knowing there would be a huge bottleneck in the system. the rest of my games used the GPU (GTX 950) at around the 90 percents and the cpu at around 50 or 60 percent. in fallout 4 and minecraft it was vise versa. CPU was hanging at 99 to 100 percent while the GPU hung at 15 to 36 percent.  in fallout 4 at lowest setting. were asin minecraft with high settings plus shaders ultra it was hanging at 60 fps max and 15 fps min with cpu load at 50 to 80%  and gpu from 40 to 78%. in cpu bound games the bottleneck becomes very imminent and in GPU bound games it's barely noticeable. 

 

This is exactly what we needed to know. Forget total CPU usage, that doesn't really mean anything as you can still be CPU limited without all 4 cores showing 100% usage. Your 950 never running at full usage says to me there is no reason to upgrade video cards, your money is best spent on a CPU upgrade. Remember, the NV driver overhead is less than when using an AMD card so you are already in a "best case scenario" if that makes any sense.

 

In the mean time, pump up AA and other graphical settings (DSR too!) in the games you don't see 100% gpu usage and you'll at least be able to play better looking games until you can afford a better performing CPU Some graphical settings do take extra CPU cycles to run, but for the most part you should be able to crank up the eye candy without noticing any significant drop in framerates until you are hitting 100% GPU usage.

[MEC-777]

This is exactly what we needed to know. Forget total CPU usage, that doesn't really mean anything as you can still be CPU limited without all 4 cores showing 100% usage. Your 950 never running at full usage says to me there is no reason to upgrade video cards, your money is best spent on a CPU upgrade. Remember, the NV driver overhead is less than when using an AMD card so you are already in a "best case scenario" if that makes any sense.

 

In the mean time, pump up AA and other graphical settings (DSR too!) in the games you don't see 100% gpu usage and you'll at least be able to play better looking games until you can afford a better performing CPU Some graphical settings do take extra CPU cycles to run, but for the most part you should be able to crank up the eye candy without noticing any significant drop in framerates until you are hitting 100% GPU usage.

 

This. 

[glitchmaster0001]

This is exactly what we needed to know. Forget total CPU usage, that doesn't really mean anything as you can still be CPU limited without all 4 cores showing 100% usage. Your 950 never running at full usage says to me there is no reason to upgrade video cards, your money is best spent on a CPU upgrade. Remember, the NV driver overhead is less than when using an AMD card so you are already in a "best case scenario" if that makes any sense.

 

In the mean time, pump up AA and other graphical settings (DSR too!) in the games you don't see 100% gpu usage and you'll at least be able to play better looking games until you can afford a better performing CPU Some graphical settings do take extra CPU cycles to run, but for the most part you should be able to crank up the eye candy without noticing any significant drop in framerates until you are hitting 100% GPU usage.

 

but in some games my gpu would just hang at 98% when the cpu hangs at 56% like heroes and generals and unturned. 

[glitchmaster0001]

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/22?vs=1284

 

Athlon 750k vs OPs Phenom X4 9750...

 

look at single thread. IF a bulldozer based Athlon, which already has abyssmal single core performance is THAT much better. Imagine how that thing will struggle?!

Even OCd to 2.7GHz, that CPU will have issues

 

look...

Phenom X4 9950 (2.6GHz version of 9750) vs 750k

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/21?vs=1284

 

even then. STILL getting crushed.

 

now, lets do a FX 6300 vs 9750

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/22?vs=699

 

look, we are talking nearly double the single core and 60% higher multi core.... from

 

an i3 6100 would be even better.

 

It is not that his hardware isnt up to snuff. Its just that this time. you are better off with a new CPU.

 

The x4 9750 uses the AM2 socket... look at the feature set of his board:

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gama78lms2h

DDR2

No Sata 3 (6GB/s)

NO VRM HEATSINK

 

 

@glitchmaster0001

this is what you should buy:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-6100 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($114.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Motherboard: ASRock Z170 Pro4S ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($82.98 @ Newegg)

Memory: GeIL EVO POTENZA 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($49.99 @ Newegg)

Total: $247.96

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-20 14:15 EST-0500

 

OR

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor  ($98.89 @ OutletPC)

Motherboard: ASRock 970M PRO3 Micro ATX AM3+/AM3 Motherboard  ($63.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 Memory  ($39.99 @ Newegg)

Total: $202.87

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-20 14:16 EST-0500

 

The first option is the "better". It will be faster despite being a dual core with hyperthreading.

The second option is the "cheaper". It will work just fine but there is no real way to upgrade it. So if you decide to go for the second option, you will be stuck with it. In terms of performance, the FX setup will be equal to a Intel i3 4170.

The Intel i3 6100 is superior to BOTH the FX and the i3 4170.

 

Read the part above your name to see WHY you should get a new CPU rather then new GPU.

if i go the intel route and up the mobo then would i be able to later on upgrade to an i7? the downside to rebuilding my system now is that im now stuck with using win 10 and i have no more gpu. i dont mind using win 10 but the thing is can i just use my old win 8 disk and install it then upgrade it to 10? plus im stuck at buying parts from frys electronics because i dont like dealing with the hassle to return items from online vendors.