Does Nvidia Gameworks actually work on a positive note?

[WynLore]

I honestly can't trust YouTube comments regarding Nvidia Gameworks being crap because majority of them aren't constructive. I just want to know if that is just YouTube commenters just talking shit, or if YouTube content creators like Joker Productions, CultOfMush, and the likes are right about it. I'm just curious and I guess it doesn't hurt to know if any of you guys who have Nvidia GPU's would enlighten me if its true that Gameworks is craptastic, blown out of proportion (like the 970 scandal, which I think is a bit exaggerated), or just false.

[Enderman]

linus talked about it about a year ago, he said it actually works very well for him

 

puts his settings almost to what he would do himself, and its very convenient for him because sometimes he just wants to play a game instantly instead of spending time messing with the graphics settings

[Najuno]

I honestly can't trust YouTube comments regarding Nvidia Gameworks being crap because majority of them aren't constructive. I just want to know if that is just YouTube commenters just talking shit, or if YouTube content creators like Joker Productions, CultOfMush, and the likes are right about it. I'm just curious and I guess it doesn't hurt to know if any of you guys who have Nvidia GPU's would enlighten me if its true that Gameworks is craptastic, blown out of proportion (like the 970 scandal, which I think is a bit exaggerated), or just false.

I guess it is like it is with all controverse things. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Gameworks isn´t totaly terrible and not as good as nVidia wants it to be. But the innovation behind it is something that I personally like. Because it means that nVidia as GPU manufacturer actively tries to help developers make a better game. There are some things that could be done better IMHO, like a more open way, but this could become even more interesting the more it gets developed.

Pretty much the same with AMD´s Mantle. Very good and innovative idea, that will hopefully with Vulcan become a competitive API to Direct X12.

[techguru]

[WynLore]

linus talked about it about a year ago, he said it actually works very well for him

 

puts his settings almost to what he would do himself, and its very convenient for him because sometimes he just wants to play a game instantly instead of spending time messing with the graphics settings

Well, I dunno about last year, but this is what I saw this year though

(though this one isn't about gameworks, but mostly about Nvidia's practices)

I'm just really curious, though, if Linus' opinion about Gameworks still holds up today, or if anyone who shares the same opinion he has at that time would still have the same opinion today.

[WynLore]

Well, I'm more concerned about performance. Visually, they both look the same except that there's more smoke with Gameworks on than off.

[techguru]

Well, I'm more concerned about performance. Visually, they both look the same except that there's more smoke with Gameworks on than off.

personally I like the extra effects

also if you look closer you will notice other things

[ivan134]

linus talked about it about a year ago, he said it actually works very well for him

puts his settings almost to what he would do himself, and its very convenient for him because sometimes he just wants to play a game instantly instead of spending time messing with the graphics settings

Gameworks =\= geforce experience

[Enderman]

Gameworks =\= geforce experience

my bad, read the title wrong

[Najuno]

Of course he has to show us an Nvidia marketing video on the best PC port to date. It owes to its fantastic stability and performance to Gameworks.

Like it or not, but I doubt, because of certain people hating it (like you i.e.), nVidia and game developers are going to stop using and working on and with Gameworks. It didn´t state that it´s perfect or that every developer should use it. So don´t just tear my posts apart to prove your point next time, thank you.

[WynLore]

my bad, read the title wrong

I thought I was lost for a moment. I thought Gameworks existed last year or something . But oh well.

[Enderman]

I thought I was lost for a moment. I thought Gameworks existed last year or something . But oh well.

it did exist last year though...

its been here for quite a while

[WynLore]

it did exist last year though...

its been here for quite a while

So whats with all the crap that Gameworks is getting today?

[xAcid9]

The developer is more at fault but who doesn't want something that could cut your game dev time and cost with extras.

[HKZeroFive]

So whats with all the crap that Gameworks is getting today?

 

Basically how it doesn't run as well on AMD cards since its closed source and propriety tech of NVIDIA. Honestly, besides a few select effects, it really offers nothing new (godrays does nothing, TressFX > HairWorks etc.). That's why everyone is excited for GPUOpen because it pretty much guarantees unbiased performance while also producing similar effects to NVIDIA's GameWorks.

 

Where GameWorks really gets its bad name from is just from games that have it:

 

AC Unity, Watch_Dogs, Arkham Knight, Just Cause 3, Fallout 4 (although this only applies because of godrays)...

 

You see where this is going?

[Theo]

For me they work fine but i have a 980ti so theres that.

[WynLore]

The developer is more at fault but who doesn't want something that could cut your game dev time and cost with extras.

I don't know about that, In all honesty, its been common to see games released that aren't polished enough and waiting for patches has become somewhat of a norm these past few years. I'd like to say its a mix because no matter how small AMD is compared to Nvidia, developers have to make sure that their games run on as many platforms as they can or allowed to run on. AMD has an open source version of Gameworks called GPUOpen. I have no knowledge or news about it, though other than I know it exists.

So, yeah, I mean, its been quite a mixed ride as I understand that developers only have a handful of things that they can work on, but not all developers are dedicated enough to get a game running with zero bugs, glitches, optimization issues at day one or even at day 2 after cooking up a patch.

[SkilledRebuilds]

I don't care too much either way... but. Had an AMD card, wanted Gameworks, ran some, depending on the HIT, don't really care that much, I like the Gameworks Smoke and Debris though and will enable it (given the choice) in all games that use it.

 

Annoying things...

 

Devs use Gameworks for Detailed & Directional Smoke Plumes/HBAO+ (amongst other tech), if gameworks was not a thing, devs could use/create a GPU agnostic Smoke Plume & HBAO+ for everyone's GPU to use. (Like Havok Physics, but think of multi-platform Smoke/HBAO types in games instead of GW's)

(And similar technologies not "common standard")

 

Non-Annoying things...

You could just say Maximum details "Gameworks Disabled" is the way it was intended as PROPER Maxed out the devs wanted, & Gameworks is just a bonus set of fidelity for Nvidia users layered on top, which AMD users would either be locked out from using (and still getting a Maxed out game as intended without gameworks) but people don't see it this way... they feel hard done by because they wanna use HBAO+ after seeing it, and not SSAO, but they can't if its locked out, or has a bigger than normal performance penalty.

 

If only GPU tech was more agnostic.

[WynLore]

Basically how it doesn't run as well on AMD cards since its closed source and propriety tech of NVIDIA. Honestly, besides a few select effects, it really offers nothing new (godrays does nothing, TressFX > HairWorks etc.). That's why everyone is excited for GPUOpen because it pretty much guarantees unbiased performance while also producing similar effects to NVIDIA's GameWorks.

 

Where GameWorks really gets its bad name from is just from games that have it:

 

AC Unity, Watch_Dogs, Arkham Knight, Just Cause 3, Fallout 4 (although this only applies because of godrays)...

 

You see where this is going?

So... effectively... Nvidia's being a massive asshole to AMD to that degree? Seems like they are grabbing AMD by the neck and the consumers by the balls. One move seems logical while the other seems way too much.

For me they work fine but i have a 980ti so theres that.

I'm curious as to how Gameworks works for cards like the 980 and bellow.

[WynLore]

I don't care too much either way... but. Had an AMD card, wanted Gameworks, ran some, depending on the HIT, don't really care that much, I like the Gameworks Smoke and Debris though and will enable it (given the choice) in all games that use it.

 

Annoying things...

 

Devs use Gameworks for Detailed & Directional Smoke Plumes/HBAO+ (amongst other tech), if gameworks was not a thing, devs could use/create a GPU agnostic Smoke Plume & HBAO+ for everyone's GPU to use. (Like Havok Physics, but think of multi-platform Smoke/HBAO types in games instead of GW's)

(And similar technologies not "common standard")

 

Non-Annoying things...

You could just say Maximum details "Gameworks Disabled" is the way it was intended as PROPER Maxed out the devs wanted, & Gameworks is just a bonus set of fidelity for Nvidia users layered on top, which AMD users would either be locked out from using (and still getting a Maxed out game as intended without gameworks) but people don't see it this way... they feel hard done by because they wanna use HBAO+ after seeing it, and not SSAO, but they can't if its locked out, or has a bigger than normal performance penalty.

 

If only GPU tech was more agnostic.

At some point, I can see why Nvidia's vilified by even some of its own customers.

[SkilledRebuilds]

So... effectively...

I'm curious as to how Gameworks works for cards like the 980 and bellow.

First part All IMO of course.

It's annoying that AMD users have to disable normal shit an equally capable card can enable.....to get a playable game at times... (Or be forced using SSAO instead of HBAO due to Nvidia performance penalty applies) even when they have a card capable of powering it, I think its also that if devs give HBAO via Gameworks, their not gunna give HBAO in a non-gameworks way (Which AMD users would no doubt like/love) cos if it did the same, and performed better,... gameworks would suffer, and whatever contract was signed would be looked over thinking... why did we bother.?

 

Second part

If the game is a good PC port, GTX 970 runs all gameworks games fine.

Batman 1+2 (Using Nvidia PhysX) and Planetside, Hawken, Assassins Creed Games (I have all of em pretty much) and all these games are fine and maxed out (cept AC Syndicate/Unity) which has reduced AA and Nvidia Shadows may be reduced to High, not Very High/Uberstupid levels.

 

But for the most part, PhysX games seem great, Gameworks games are decent, but the Witcher3 tessellation fiasco (Lets crank it to 11!!!) and Batman AK performance (if any) in general has skewed people into thinking gameworks is bad, when IMO its the DEVS that are being stupid with it.

[xAcid9]

I'd like to say its a mix because no matter how small AMD is compared to Nvidia, developers have to make sure that their games run on as many platforms as they can or allowed to run on. AMD has an open source version of Gameworks called GPUOpen. I have no knowledge or news about it, though other than I know it exists.

Yes, they make sure the game run but did they optimized it for both vendors? Nope. Bethesda on Fallout 4, Slightly Mad Studios on Project Cars.

[HKZeroFive]

So... effectively... Nvidia's being a massive asshole to AMD to that degree? Seems like they are grabbing AMD by the neck and the consumers by the balls. One move seems logical while the other seems way too much.

I'm curious as to how Gameworks works for cards like the 980 and bellow.

 

Pretty much. Performance takes a hit for both sides, its just that NVIDIA's isn't as bad. I'll give an example of why this closed-source stuff is bullshit. When Tomb Raider (I think) released, it was using AMD's TressFX. Now, although NVIDIA suffered in performance at the beginning, they were given the source code because it was open source and were able to perform relatively well in the game after a patch. AMD, on the other hand, can't. People have been saying shit like 'it's just competition, NVIDIA's just pressing their advantage' and all that does is encouraging a further segregation between both GPU brands. It sucks.

 

The Maxwell range performs relatively well with GameWorks, but like all cards, take a hit when using GameWorks, just not as bad. A while back, an infamous event called 'Keplergate' happened where NVIDIA basically 'gimped' their performance in the 700 series and below. I'm not sure if GameWorks had an involvement in it but it could be a possibility.

 

At the end of the day, although GameWorks is shit, it mostly falls onto the shoulders of the developers. You can still make a good game with GameWorks turned off and that should be the main priority, instead of half-arsing a game because NVIDIA came over and paid you to integrate the effects. I still hate GimpWorks though.

[BrightCandle]

The positive picture:

 

Gameworks is a collection of post processing effects and compute programs that are used commonly in games. It goes from the very basics like ambient occlusion all the way up to things like hair, wave and flames. It was created because despite Nvidia and AMD publishing code on how to do things on their websites the state of the art in rendering wasn't making it into games. Rather than continuing with its consultants constantly trying to get it embedded in games they decided to build a suite where all these things could live so it was easier for game developers to use it, hence gameworks. They took FX no one used made solid production code and hand it out for free. It works against the DX11 API, almost all of it works for all manufacturers except a few specific Nvidia technologies that don't work on AMD and contrary to common claim its optimised for both companies hardware.

 

The main problem is that theoretically Nvidia could use the API to harm AMD, it could purposely choose algorithms that would hurt AMD performance and that ran fine on Nvidia due to architectural differences or further add more and more propriety features that were really essential and basically crippled AMD. But the mitigating factor to that is that the developers of the game are the ones who control their code, they can test effects and change the settings to make it run well on the hardware available, they are in no way forced to do something that hurts performance, and because the ultimate decision is with them and in most cases Nvidia isn't even involved with the development in practice its not really Nvidia's fault when it goes wrong.

 

What we do know is that Nvidia uses tessellation in a few of the effects and AMD has much weaker tessellation hardware. But in some effects like HDAO+ AMD performs better than Nvidia because its a compute based effect. Contrary to popular belief we haven't really had a smoking gun that proves Nvidia is doing something nefarious, all the cases so far have been games that were released pretty broke and mostly just showed that AMD users need to turn down tessellation effects due to how anaemic the hardware is there compared to the competition. Since it was all in the hands of the developers of the games its kind of shocking they released them like that frankly and oddly enough almost all of them get fixed with a driver update from AMD later.

 

There are some negatives, AMD can't see the code so its harder for them to fix their drivers. Sometimes Nvidia does release updates close to game launch and this has caused issues with performance on day 1 where AMD was actually involved (although Nvidia gets involved in a lot more projects a lot earlier). But it remains a mostly theoretical threat, we have circumstantial evidence only and based on how poorly people actually compare the effects and the misleading pictures I consider most of the noise around gameworks to be the press stirring up controversy when there mostly isn't any.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

I'd say, you'll get the "full" experience if you have the top of the line geforce gpu.