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AMD CEO Lisa Su interview, from A(PUs) to Z(en)

Bouzoo
By Bouzoo
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During Computex last week, small number of journalist had the opportunity to have a discussion with the most important person at AMD atm. She talked about quite a few things, from HBM and Carrizo to Zen and smartphones (that I am not gonna talk about now).

 

 

HBM and graphics
Probably the most hyped topic atm is the new Fury card. It's based on the new HBM design that should increase bandwidth and thus increase the performance per watt while reducing power consumption (if the leaks about Fury using 300W are true, this is still open for discussion). For people that still don't know what that is.

 

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Su teased an HBM APU but hasn't said when we should expect it, nor did she want to comment on other HBM implementations. Also as we know, this is the first gen of HBM so things are gonna improve in the future, especially with HBM2 on the way and there are no technology limitations, at least according to her. She also added that they are confident in the new launch. Since Fury is gonna be announced at E3 and E3 is the biggest game expo, she said it seemed fit. Also as VR is on the way, our discrete cards are gonna play a big role in it.

Su would not comment on when we would see other HBM implementations, nor on which products, but she said that there are neither production nor technology limitations, just decisions to be made "based on the company's overall product roadmap, and individual market decisions." AMD has said that there would eventually be an APU with a high-bandwidth memory implementation. It just hasn't said when.
"We've been experimenting and running quite a bit of hardware," Su said about AMD's testing of HBM, meaning beyond graphics, but she added that "[AMD is] very confident in the new launch." Su also said that this is just the first generation of HBM, and that its design is sure to improve over time.
As to why AMD chose to announce the new graphics flagship at E3 instead of Computex, she pointed to the fact that Carrizo was the right move for last week's trade show because of the heavy hardware OEM involvement. Because E3 is all about gaming, and gaming is a big focus of the next graphics launch (and for AMD overall), E3 makes more sense as a launch vehicle.
She said that we would soon hear how that technology fits into the company's overall graphics roadmap, implying perhaps—the inference is our own—that we'll hear about a family of technologies, and that HBM will be part of some products, but not others. OEM sources have indicated as much to me, but it's difficult to put much stock in those given the bounty of leaks.
Su specifically pointed to VR as another reminder about the importance of discrete graphics capabilities, but I asked her when VR would have a material influence on AMD's graphics sales. She said that it's "an exciting enough application that you'll see graphics cards being driven by it" starting as early as the next year or two, but that because the content is still evolving (she called this the year of enabling developers), it might be a few years before it has a heavy impact.

 

Carrizo

AMDs new gen of APUs that's gonna be based on Excavator, their newest core. It's also gonna be based on the existing 28nm process node. They said it has 17x the compute performance and 2x the graphics performance of Kaveri. In laptops that cost $400-$700, which they think is the next largest market opportunity, they say it will handle heavy multitasking and graphically intensive tasks such as video and photo editing, video playback, and gaming.

 

AMD-Carrizo-APU_Excavator-Core-Architect

 

 

Lisa said the area that AMD wants to be different and innovate is the process manufacturing. They rely on third-party process technology so they can "invest more in design libraries and tools" to improve basically everything. Sadly, based on the new Iris 6200 benchmarks, Intel might be heading in the better direction, so I hope this turns out as a success, or they are gonna be in problems. Then she continued on AMD vs Intel.

At a lower level, Carrizo features Excavator, the newest core, but one that's built on the same 28nm process node. AMD packed in the performance, but also the efficiency, and it includes HVEC decoding, a larger L1 cache, and HSA 1.0 support. AMD said it has 17x the compute performance and 2x the graphics performance of Kaveri.
At an even lower level, AMD made some important design choices, in particular teaming up the CPU and GPU groups, with the CPU engineers borrowing from the GPU team's use of high-density libraries to maximize the space on the die, which allowed the engineers to add better graphics and multimedia decoding.
Intel differentiates in process manufacturing, whereas AMD has relied on third-party process technology, choosing instead to "invest more in design libraries and tools" in order to improve efficiencies, performance and processes, according to Su. This is where AMD wants to innovate, she said, not on standard process technology.
She added that density and performance were important goals for any chip manufacturer, but that 28nm has done well over several generations. On the other hand, AMD has been public about moving its APU to FinFET technology next, she said, adding that AMD "can be competitive in IPC as well as graphic density."
"Even though Carrizo is on 28nm, versus Intel at smaller process nodes, our graphics performance is substantially better," she said, referring to AMD's internal numbers showing Carrizo compared to current Intel Core i3 technologies within the same target price range.

 

ZEN
Now for their future and probably the most important topic of all. Since nowadays AMD CPUs are not that good for gaming, they realised they need to improve things a bit. Their goal is to improve the IPC by 40% with the new cache system bandwidht and latency. Go AMD.

 

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Zen CPUs are gonna use AM4 platforms (socket) and will support DDR4. Su said that Zen's success is the key. The key for what? Everything. They realize their 1 core performance is bad and that something has to be done there. Unfortunately, we didn't get much info on Zen, except that it's gonna be first in a family or processors. Will it be 14nm? I sure hope so.

I pressed Su for the one thing on AMD's roadmap where she felt the company absolutely had to succeed, either because a misstep might be harmful, or because success might help the company hit its financial targets faster. The answer, in a word, is Zen.
"In the short term, how we do in the PC market is very important," she said, pointing to share losses in the PC market that have knocked AMD around a bit.
AMD is making a big bet, she said, on servers and on high-performance desktops. It is "very deliberate, and we have to execute," she said.
Without much detail, we'll have to wait. But my colleagues at the roundtable pressed Su on some of the failures of the past, specifically around AMD's poor single-threaded performance.
Su said, about Zen, that it was important to get everything right. That single-threaded performance was important, but so too was overall system architecture, and power performance. She said the two fundamental pillars in the future AMD roadmap included improving IPC across all applications, and performance per watt in graphics.
She also reiterated that "Zen is first in a family of processors," adding that "you can't be a one shot wonder."

 

So where does that leave us? With much talk that has a lot of opportunities, but is all in the future. We are gonna find out more about Carrizo and Fury very soon and see what's what. Zen? She is right, it's gonna be the key.

 

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The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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You got a typo in the zen section, that's a CPU not a GPU. But good article otherwise.

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Jokes aside... i hope ZEN is comparable to Sandy Bridge IPC gains... at least we would have a decent CPU then.

AMD Phenom II B55 Quad / unlocked dual core 4.3ghz CB R15 = CB 422
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Any day now AMD

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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You got a typo in the zen section, that's a CPU not a GPU. But good article otherwise.

Ty for correction and ty  :)

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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Its a long wait to Quarter X 2016 when its going to release, a long wait, what my mind is wondering about is what will Intel do if AMD's Zen is decent and delivers for cheaper, will they finally give us 6 core i5/i7's or keep creating 5% IPC new ahtitectures each year with OC locked every year.

 

I miss OC so much,fuck intel bastards making i5 unlocked 30% more expensive(at least in my country), i hope AMD Zen comeback with all chips unlocked and sandy/ivy bridge ipc and 14/16nmFinFet <95Watt TDP 8 cores hyperthreaded that trades blows with i7's at 50$ cheaper then AMD Zen is golden.I would probably upgrade too but i would need to wait for DDR4 to drop price first sigh.

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not too shabby, 2016 seems to be a collision point of various different technologies coming together: VR, DX12, DDR4, 14/16nm finfet (intel has an early start), wide-spread HBM implementation (curious if Nintendo NX will use HBM...) and lots of shiny next gen games. 

 

AMD appear to be going all in. Where the chips fall by next year at this time may be very interesting.

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An APU with its own HBM huh? That sounds like a pretty good idea  :lol:

Given how Intel's eDRAM puts the 5775C in direct competition with the 4790K even in CPU performance, I would say so! I just can't believe AMD didn't jump on the eDRAM train as well to help boost their CPU and APU performance in the immediate term, because clearly it helped their biggest competitor.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Its a long wait to Quarter X 2016 when its going to release, a long wait, what my mind is wondering about is what will Intel do if AMD's Zen is decent and delivers for cheaper, will they finally give us 6 core i5/i7's or keep creating 5% IPC new ahtitectures each year with OC locked every year.

 

I miss OC so much,fuck intel bastards making i5 unlocked 30% more expensive(at least in my country), i hope AMD Zen comeback with all chips unlocked and sandy/ivy bridge ipc and 14/16nmFinFet <95Watt TDP 8 cores hyperthreaded that trades blows with i7's at 50$ cheaper then AMD Zen is golden.I would probably upgrade too but i would need to wait for DDR4 to drop price first sigh.

In the U.S. the difference in price between locked and unlocked is maybe $10 on a bad day. I think it's your retailers who are the problem.

 

DDR4 is as cheap as DDR3 now in the U.S.. I get updates from PCPartpicker daily, and DDR4 2800 kits are officially cheaper than DDR3 2800 kits by about 15% in the same configurations.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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not too shabby, 2016 seems to be a collision point of various different technologies coming together: VR, DX12, DDR4, 14/16nm finfet (intel has an early start), wide-spread HBM implementation (curious if Nintendo NX will use HBM...) and lots of shiny next gen games. 

 

AMD appear to be going all in. Where the chips fall by next year at this time may be very interesting.

No way. Best case, they use GCN 1.0. Nintendo only uses tech which is several years old and proven.

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Given how Intel's eDRAM puts the 5775C in direct competition with the 4790K even in CPU performance, I would say so! I just can't believe AMD didn't jump on the eDRAM train as well to help boost their CPU and APU performance in the immediate term, because clearly it helped their biggest competitor.

I don't think Intel eDRAM do much for the CPU side, to be honest. I also believe a 4790k would pull ahead, if the software scales with frequency.

There might not had been the right deal for AMD. Why would they invest, when they are already investing in pushing HBM out?

Drive cost up, which is not really preferable, for their price targets.

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I don't think Intel eDRAM do much for the CPU side, to be honest. I also believe a 4790k would pull ahead, if the software scales with frequency.

There might not had been the right deal for AMD. Why would they invest, when they are already investing in pushing HBM out?

Drive cost up, which is not really preferable, for their price targets.

Go look at the 5775C CPU benchmarks. It keeps up with the 4790K despite running at 3.7GHz in CPU tests as well.

 

Because AMD needs sales now and really can't afford to give Intel the iGPU crown too?

 

It's $7 for Intel to manufacture Crystalwell. AMD could have made a deal.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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How I think an interview with AMD usually goes:

 

-Interviewer: What are you going to do to get better and desperately needed floating point performance?

-Lisa Su: APU

-Interviewer: That...doesn't really answer my question. In fact it limits overall CPU die size which you desperately need to compete with intel in raw performance

-Lisa Su: APU! Apu apu when APU apu? Of course APU, You apu apu that APU apu when APU henceforth APU!

-Interviewer: .....riiight

-Richard Huddy: You gotta remember, Nvidia is intentionally locking AMD out of any optimization of gameworks titles!

-Interviewer: Mr Huddy I never even mentioned (gets cut off)

-Richard Huddy: Yeah you did, subtextually, anyway we encourage everybody to avoid closed solutions that are there to unfairly favor the competition NVIDA and we encourage you to use open source alternatives......that are incidentally not open source at all until we completely abandon the fucking project as in mantle

-Lisa Su: APU APU APU APU APU APU APU!!!!!!

 

Well there you have it folks!

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Given how Intel's eDRAM puts the 5775C in direct competition with the 4790K even in CPU performance, I would say so! I just can't believe AMD didn't jump on the eDRAM train as well to help boost their CPU and APU performance in the immediate term, because clearly it helped their biggest competitor.

 

Probably this... I guess... Wasn't it mentioned that they might fit something like a 290 in an APU? 290 + HBM might be nice since system ram is way slower 

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No way. Best case, they use GCN 1.0. Nintendo only uses tech which is several years old and proven.

Habits and trends can be broken. Never say never.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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No way. Best case, they use GCN 1.0. Nintendo only uses tech which is several years old and proven.

And that can't change because...? They need a game breaker.

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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Go look at the 5775C CPU benchmarks. It keeps up with the 4790K despite running at 3.7GHz in CPU tests as well.

 

Because AMD needs sales now and really can't afford to give Intel the iGPU crown too?

 

It's $7 for Intel to manufacture Crystalwell. AMD could have made a deal.

I have, and it ranges to be on pair with 4790k to be below haswell I5s.

If the software isn't scaling well with frequency, you are not going to see any differences in the outcome.

 

Well, they would have to push back the carrizo launch, spend more on the carrizo launch, and have less profit.

They are in total different price ranges.

 

Yes, it is $7 for Intel to manufacture, but that doesn't say what it will cost to actually make a deal. It would increase the cost of processors who are supposed to be landing in dirt cheap laptops. Would the gain, even be worth it?

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I have, and it ranges to be on pair with 4790k to be below haswell I5s.

If the software isn't scaling well with frequency, you are not going to see any differences in the outcome.

 

Well, they would have to push back the carrizo launch, spend more on the carrizo launch, and have less profit.

They are in total different price ranges.

 

Yes, it is $7 for Intel to manufacture, but that doesn't say what it will cost to actually make a deal. It would increase the cost of processors who are supposed to be landing in dirt cheap laptops. Would the gain, even be worth it?

I'd argue they'd get more profits because both their CPU and iGPU performance would be drastically improved, and it would certainly help PR a ton.

 

Carrizo-L is for dirt-cheap laptops. Carrizo is not.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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I'd argue they'd get more profits because both their CPU and iGPU performance would be drastically improved, and it would certainly help PR a ton.

 

Carrizo-L is for dirt-cheap laptops. Carrizo is not.

Where are we seen drastically better CPU performance?

Even AMDs lack of L3 cache on their APUs, have an almost negligible effect, outside a few workloads.

 

I might have overreacted on the "dirt cheap laptop", however they still remain in the budget zone, and increase of individual component cost is not a good idea.

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Where are we seen drastically better CPU performance?

Even AMDs lack of L3 cache on their APUs, have an almost negligible effect, outside a few workloads.

I might have overreacted on the "dirt cheap laptop", however they still remain in the budget zone, and increase of individual component cost is not a good idea.

I don't think you're looking at the same CPU benchmarks the rest of us are. The eDRAM seems to help across the board to a very large effect.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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I don't think you're looking at the same CPU benchmarks the rest of us are. The eDRAM seems to help across the board to a very large effect.

I'm looking at multiple sites, and nothing really shows that the implementation of eDRAM is the reason of increased IPC.

Why don't you link it, then?

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How I think an interview with AMD usually goes:

 

-Interviewer: What are you going to do to get better and desperately needed floating point performance?

-Lisa Su: APU

-Interviewer: That...doesn't really answer my question. In fact it limits overall CPU die size which you desperately need to compete with intel in raw performance

-Lisa Su: APU! Apu apu when APU apu? Of course APU, You apu apu that APU apu when APU henceforth APU!

-Interviewer: .....riiight

-Richard Huddy: You gotta remember, Nvidia is intentionally locking AMD out of any optimization of gameworks titles!

-Interviewer: Mr Huddy I never even mentioned (gets cut off)

-Richard Huddy: Yeah you did, subtextually, anyway we encourage everybody to avoid closed solutions that are there to unfairly favor the competition NVIDA and we encourage you to use open source alternatives......that are incidentally not open source at all until we completely abandon the fucking project as in mantle

-Lisa Su: APU APU APU APU APU APU APU!!!!!!

 

Well there you have it folks!

you know basically all intel make is apus

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you know basically all intel make is apus

 

Yeah but they don't spend half their conferences bragging about their crappy integrated graphics performance.

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Current Rig

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