Hifiman HE-500 + Objective2

[BenTan]

Hey guys,

 

I've had my eyes set on the Hifiman HE-500 for a while now and I've found a place where I can get a brand new Hifiman HE-500 for about 500 USD. However, it's the last one in stock, so I have to make my decision quickly.

 

I'm currently using the Desktop Objective2 + ODAC combo from Mayflower Electronics and the Sennheiser HD 598 which I just recently picked up.

 

I've been reading a lot of mixed opinions on the HE-500 and Objective2 combo. I've read in a few threads from Head-Fi that it takes a better amp than the Objective2 to get the best out of these pair of headphones and that it sounds better with a tube amp such as a Hifiman EF-5 or a speaker amp. I also read that the HE-500 benefits a lot from current from an amplifier and the Objective2 doesn't meet those requirements. There were many others who said the O2 has enough power and was "sufficient" for the HE-500 but didn't really elaborate on that.

 

A brand new HE-500 for 500 USD seems like a good deal but it's still a lot of money to spend on headphones, so I wanna make sure that I'm making a good decision. If I do end up getting the HE-500, I'm hoping to be done with audio upgrades.

 

What do you guys think? Is there anybody who've had experience with the HE-500 and the Objective2 amp? Is the Objective2 a good enough amp to pair the HE-500 with? Should I get the HE-500 or should I stick with what I have?

 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[SSL]

The O2 is more than enough.

 

If you want to garbage up the signal chain with harmonic distortion from an outmoded form of voltage gain technology, then get a tube amp.

 

Edit:

 

To expand on this point: The HE-500 needs 400mW of power to reach 115dB, which is about as loud as it is safe it listen, let alone comfortable. That translates to 3.9V/103mA, well within the capabiliites of the O2.

 

As to whether it is worth upgrading to the HE-500; sure, it's probably an upgrade but that doesn't mean that you'll like the sound signature.

[ShearMe]

Head-Fi loves their tube amps, and will spout as many lies as it takes to convince people they serve a purpose.

 

If I do end up getting the HE-500, I'm hoping to be done with audio upgrades.

 

Ha!

 

[creatip123]

Lays in this forum had the exact same setup. He sold it all tho.

 

It's true that Hifiman's planars could be considered 'old skul' planar, which is low efficiency, low impedance, bad combo for a headphone. Compared to newer gen planars like audezes, which are very efficient. But O2 should also got lots of juice inside it. 

[BenTan]

Thanks so much for the replies so far guys. I'm a lot more convinced now that the O2 has enough power for these headphones. 

 

My only question is, will the O2 be able to reach the HE-500's "full potential"? The reason I ask is because a lot of people have mentioned that higher end amplifiers can give better sound out of the HE-500s. I was also watching Barnacules' review of the HE-500s and he mentioned that he was getting a Woo Audio WA7 specifically for these headphones and the HD 800. Then in his O2 review, he said he could not tell the difference between the Woo Audio and Objective2. He never mentioned whether he compared the HE-500s or the HD800s on these 2 amps and people in the comments were asking about that.

[BoredErica]

It powers a headphone. Headphone has enough power.

 

Barnacules knows nothing about audio. He was blown away by the Wa7 but realized later it sounds the freakin' same as other amps. Headfi is a great place to go for the religious and superstitious. I just want to ask people, what "potential" is actually being squandered with a cheaper amp? What spec isn't being met exactly? I can never get a serious answer.

[creatip123]

Thanks so much for the replies so far guys. I'm a lot more convinced now that the O2 has enough power for these headphones. 

 

My only question is, will the O2 be able to reach the HE-500's "full potential"? The reason I ask is because a lot of people have mentioned that higher end amplifiers can give better sound out of the HE-500s. I was also watching Barnacules' review of the HE-500s and he mentioned that he was getting a Woo Audio WA7 specifically for these headphones and the HD 800. Then in his O2 review, he said he could not tell the difference between the Woo Audio and Objective2. He never mentioned whether he compared the HE-500s or the HD800s on these 2 amps and people in the comments were asking about that.

 

'Full potential' in headphone context, is an abstract. Speakers and headphone drivers don't work like a PC processor, in the way that if you pump more juice in it, it will perform better and better, until the voltage literally fry it. Speakers and headphones need a certain threshold of voltage and current to function properly. More juice = louder performance, not better.

 

Different amps gives different sounds, due to the amps' coloration. A perfect and ideal amp should have no sound coloration at all, but there are none like that. 3 things to note:

 

- there are bad amps, and there are decent/good amps. Bad amps for example got very high detrimental output impedance, low SNR (signal to noise ratio, basically means noise floors), etc. But most decent headphone amps in the market are already addressing this issue, so no need to worry about it too much. 

- the differences are minuscule, and sometimes astronomical, that not everyone can hear it

- it's different, not necessarily better or worse. You can say, 'this one sounds better suited to my preference', but not objectively better.  

 

As such, the only 'proper' way to pick a new amp is to try before buy. Or, if that's not possible, buy one, sell it if you don't like it, buy another one, repeat until you find the one you like. It's a gamble. You could either find one that you like the most, or you could find that all of those sounds practically the same. 

[BenTan]

It powers a headphone. Headphone has enough power.

 

Barnacules knows nothing about audio. He was blown away by the Wa7 but realized later it sounds the freakin' same as other amps. Headfi is a great place to go for the religious and superstitious. I just want to ask people, what "potential" is actually being squandered with a cheaper amp? What spec isn't being met exactly? I can never get a serious answer.

That's just what I read from different forums. Many people saying Bass, soundstage, etc were better on this amp than the other. Not saying I believe or agree with what was being said but considering that I'm spending 500 dollars on a pair of headphones I just wanted to be sure if there was a benefit to using a better amp.

 

Thanks for clarifying though.

[Lays]

That's just what I read from different forums. Many people saying Bass, soundstage, etc were better on this amp than the other. Not saying I believe or agree with what was being said but considering that I'm spending 500 dollars on a pair of headphones I just wanted to be sure if there was a benefit to using a better amp.

 

Thanks for clarifying though.

 

 

I wouldn't pay much attention to head-fi, 90% of the crap they say is literal crap.

 

Most of what they say is "the more it costs, the better it is" when in actuality, many expensive amps actually do more to distort the sound than cheaper solutions, so arguably you could say they're worse.

[BoredErica]

That's just what I read from different forums. Many people saying Bass, soundstage, etc were better on this amp than the other. Not saying I believe or agree with what was being said but considering that I'm spending 500 dollars on a pair of headphones I just wanted to be sure if there was a benefit to using a better amp.

 

Thanks for clarifying though.

Often I also like to ask them to explain to me how bass would suffer if I get a $500 amp instead of a $150 one. I'm not looking for sighted listening tests. A serious technical explanation would clear the air. But I suspect the people over there don't uh... deal with technical explanations but just rather regurgitate their sighted feelings back to each other.

 

Be careful out there, the audio forum world is a dangerous place. Out of all the electronics-related-stuff, the audio forums probably require the most stringent BS filters. Grab a headphone you like (this is something you need to try out to really decide), possibly grab a dac/amp that is known to be up to par in specs, and you're done. It's simple, there's no mixing and matching. I've always been a fan of the Odac/O2 because once you're at that level I'm typically pretty confident in calling any complaints about sound quality placebo-induced BS. However, reasonable people have argued that much less is needed (in terms of dac/amps) and I don't really object.

 

I also feel that people exaggerate differences between different gears. It seems like some people expect to hear the voice of God with their $2000 amps or something, lol. And I've been there, and I can definitely afford one, but I came back to my O2/Odac because there's really not much to see there.

 

Creatip's gonna say but maybe tube amps? These are amps that distort the sound the hopefully make everything sound better - but they are not without their... in my opinion, long list of caveats, and it's really only ideal for a small percentage of people.

[Michael McAllister]

I wouldn't pay much attention to head-fi, 90% of the crap they say is literal crap.

 

Most of what they say is "the more it costs, the better it is" when in actuality, many expensive amps actually do more to distort the sound than cheaper solutions, so arguably you could say they're worse.

 

I would say the only real benefit to a more expensive amplifier/DAC is possibly more connectors if you are looking to hook up some speakers, but other than that, spending more is not worth it.

[Michael McAllister]

The O2 is more than enough.

 

If you want to garbage up the signal chain with harmonic distortion from an outmoded form of voltage gain technology, then get a tube amp.

 

Edit:

 

To expand on this point: The HE-500 needs 400mW of power to reach 115dB, which is about as loud as it is safe it listen, let alone comfortable. That translates to 3.9V/103mA, well within the capabiliites of the O2.

 

As to whether it is worth upgrading to the HE-500; sure, it's probably an upgrade but that doesn't mean that you'll like the sound signature.

 

Not very safe for your hearing. 

[creatip123]

Creatip's gonna say but maybe tube amps? These are amps that distort the sound the hopefully make everything sound better - but they are not without their... in my opinion, long list of caveats, and it's really only ideal for a small percentage of people.

 

Actually people looking for tube devices are looking for the tubes' distortions, knowing or unknowingly. It's not better, it's different sounding, due to the distortions and sound coloration. 

[BoredErica]

Not very safe for your hearing. 

Dude, based on the text and the emoticon I thought you posted a link to something that's going to wake up my neighbors. I muted my computer and clicked the link and all I see is a chart, lol. In related news, I don't always listen to music, but when I do, I listen at 194dB. 

 

Actually, I prefer 200dB. Shockwaves causing internal bleeding but it hurts so good!

 

Do keep in mind though, that 115dB figure is more for peaks. If you're listening to well-recorded classical that has a large dynamic range... You can have a less-ridiculous volume at like, 100dB, and then 15dB peak. Well, the figure could also be for people that are absolutely insane, but when I think of this stuff I look at the worst-case scenario. 

[BenTan]

I wouldn't pay much attention to head-fi, 90% of the crap they say is literal crap.

 

Most of what they say is "the more it costs, the better it is" when in actuality, many expensive amps actually do more to distort the sound than cheaper solutions, so arguably you could say they're worse.

Thanks, I'll stay away from head-fi from now on. Btw, creatip123 here, mentioned that you used to have the O2 and HE-500. How are the HE-500s in your opinion? There aren't any shops around here that have samples for me to try, so I have to rely on reviews to decide whether or not to buy them.

[SSL]

Not very safe for your hearing. 

 

Assuming an average loudness of 85dB ("safe" according to OSHA standards), high dynamic range music would produce peaks of about 115dB. Personally I listen to music at much lower levels; there is some argument that OSHA standards are extremely borderline and that the ideal safe level for prolonged listening is more like 60-70dB; that is what is recommended for instrument practice, for example.

 

[BenTan]

Often I also like to ask them to explain to me how bass would suffer if I get a $500 amp instead of a $150 one. I'm not looking for sighted listening tests. A serious technical explanation would clear the air. But I suspect the people over there don't uh... deal with technical explanations but just rather regurgitate their sighted feelings back to each other.

 

Be careful out there, the audio forum world is a dangerous place. Out of all the electronics-related-stuff, the audio forums probably require the most stringent BS filters. Grab a headphone you like (this is something you need to try out to really decide), possibly grab a dac/amp that is known to be up to par in specs, and you're done. It's simple, there's no mixing and matching. I've always been a fan of the Odac/O2 because once you're at that level I'm typically pretty confident in calling any complaints about sound quality placebo-induced BS. However, reasonable people have argued that much less is needed (in terms of dac/amps) and I don't really object.

 

I also feel that people exaggerate differences between different gears. It seems like some people expect to hear the voice of God with their $2000 amps or something, lol. And I've been there, and I can definitely afford one, but I came back to my O2/Odac because there's really not much to see there.

 

Creatip's gonna say but maybe tube amps? These are amps that distort the sound the hopefully make everything sound better - but they are not without their... in my opinion, long list of caveats, and it's really only ideal for a small percentage of people.

Thanks for the tip, appreciate it. Just out of curiosity, what headphones do you use?

 

EDIT: Nvm checked your profile. You're using the HD 800 right?

[BoredErica]

Thanks for the tip, appreciate it. Just out of curiosity, what headphones do you use?

I use the HD800s right now.

[Michael McAllister]

I use the HD800s right now.

 

Oh, Mr. Fancy Pants. 

 

Did you buy used or new?

[BoredErica]

Oh, Mr. Fancy Pants. 

 

Did you buy used or new?

I bought it used like-new from Amazon for like $300 off. Should've bought from Headfi though. That's what Headfi is good for... buying secondhand stuff you were gonna buy anyways.

[Michael McAllister]

I bought it used like-new from Amazon for like $300 off. Should've bought from Headfi though. That's what Headfi is good for... buying secondhand stuff you were gonna buy anyways.

 

For some things, maybe.  I prefer to use Amazon whenever possible assuming prices are equal or slightly more expensive.  I find Amazon's return policy to be excellent, so if a product I'm planning on buying is like $10 more expensive on Amazon than somewhere else, I'll just buy it through there.  Amazon Prime is pretty awesome as well.

[xtroria]

I bought it used like-new from Amazon for like $300 off. Should've bought from Headfi though. That's what Headfi is good for... buying secondhand stuff you were gonna buy anyways.

Yep, I'm probably never gonna buy BNIB audio gears anymore. $360 for HD600, O2 amp and iBasso D-zero!

As for OP, HE-500 is pretty heavy, bear that in mind. HE-400i is actually pretty good alternative, OR just go straight to HE-560 and stop thinking you need a better headphone

[NannerBeans]

Assuming an average loudness of 85dB ("safe" according to OSHA standards), high dynamic range music would produce peaks of about 115dB. Personally I listen to music at much lower levels; there is some argument that OSHA standards are extremely borderline and that the ideal safe level for prolonged listening is more like 60-70dB; that is what is recommended for instrument practice, for example.

 

According to this sound meter app I downloaded on my phone, I listen to music at 80 dB...Maybe I should turn it down lol. 

[kuhchuk]

I know I'm late to the party, but I've got a pair of HE-400 and an O2/ODAC.  Trust me, the O2 can deliver WAAAY more power than you need.  I know that the HE-400's are about 5db/mw more sensitive than the 500's, but I've NEVER even come close to hitting the high gain switch, except out of curiosity and with the headphones removed from my person. 

 

Also, the O2 measures as good or better than the majority of the top-tier amps out there.  If you think the distortion of a tube amp might be your thing, then go ahead, but don't believe for a second that you're missing anything by going with an O2.

[BenTan]

Yep, I'm probably never gonna buy BNIB audio gears anymore. $360 for HD600, O2 amp and iBasso D-zero!

As for OP, HE-500 is pretty heavy, bear that in mind. HE-400i is actually pretty good alternative, OR just go straight to HE-560 and stop thinking you need a better headphone

Lol, HE-560 is beyond my budget, and besides, I'm afraid that I might not be able to hear the difference. There aren't any shops nearby that even sell high end headphones. So I can't try them out and have to rely on reviews and opinions from other people. The shops that do sell them are situated far from my place.

 

Any idea how the HE-400i compares to the HE-500? The HE-400i seems to be significantly cheaper than the HE-500.

 

$500 for a new HE-500 seems like a good deal but I need to decide quickly as there's only one left in stock.