Whole Room Water Cooling Part 5a

[Smashy]

While the sludge being bacterial is a possibility, it shouldn't be ruled out that the sludge may be the result of the inhibitor from the glycol reacting with zinc (galvanised surfaces) in the loop.  The reservoir is likely galvanised which is totally fine for potable water applications but not well-suited for glycol cooling systems.  Information on this reaction is a bit tough to come by but the following links may shed some light on your situation:

 

from Raypak (boiler manufacturer):

http://www.raypak.com/support/tech_corner/anti_freeze - from "Special Design Considerations" (which is written for boiler systems):

 

Do not use galvanized pipe in the system. The zinc coating can react with the glycol to form sludge.

• Do not use an automotive type glycol. Automotive antifreeze is formulated with silicates which tend to gel, reducing heat transfer efficiency. Use an inhibited glycol designed for heat transfer applications.
• A strainer, sediment trap, or some other means for cleaning the piping system must be provided. It should be located in the return line ahead of the boiler and pump. This must be cleaned frequently during initial operation.

from Dow Chemical:

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_0032/0901b80380032677.pdf - from page 7:

 

 

"The zinc in the galvanized coating could react with inhibitor components, thus precipitating out of the fluid and causing fouling as well as inhibitor depletion."

[A93nt47]

Lets look at the possible root cause.  I for one am wondering why they are running antifreeze in the first place. The average low in Vancouver gets to about 34F. Ok so if it gets colder you want to prevent the water from freezing and destroying your radiators. I get it. Can you just eliminate the issue all together? Do you turn off the loop at night when people go home? Why not design a bypass in the copper loop so when everyone goes home you flip a valve and the water bypasses all the computer systems and just goes outside then back to the reservoir? Sure this might be a small waste of power overnight, but a system can be designed in a way that you can save on power by not turning on all the pumps you have in the series (2 right?) Even if someone were to forget to flip the valve manually, you can put in an electronic valve control to do it for you. You worry for the cold for what maybe 4 months out of the year?  Seems like a lot of cost for the antifreeze to me, whereas valves are cheap and you don't lose them to contamination.

 

I want to see this work guys, I really do. Good luck.

 

P.S. I hate that reservoir. 

[ProKoN]

@LinusTech

 

Im  guessing the contamination was causes by the antifreeze

 

I used to run automotive antifreeze in my water loop when doing extreme overclocking. I also experienced the Biological build up \ sludge \ scaling.

 

I have switched my fluid to

 

automotive Windshield Wiper Fluid.  less viscosity and seems to be less build up in the loop. it is rated for -36c. this stuff is also flammable so it might not be ideal for your application.

 

Havent played around with mixtures. I run 90% wiper fluid and 10% water. Im sure you could dilute the wiperfluid a fair amount ( maybe 70% water -30% wiper fluid). something like that would make it less flammable but effective enough to prevent loop from freezing. my loop runs 100% speed at -30c with the wiper fluid.

 

the antifreeze \ glycol is a very heavy liquid and will "gel"  when cold and become even heavier

 

your crazy for doing this btw. get some valves to isolate your pumps when you gotta service them

[mackncheesiest]

I knew 5a was coming, but seriously, what's next? Part 5a₁ and 5a₂? Part 5aa? Part 5ai, 5aii? Part 5a+1?

 

You guys should do part 7 and skip 6, just to make people butthurt.

[riawoias]

You already have what you need to clean the system of the sludge but you will have to heat the loop above 65degC for a prolonged period of time. (Make sure your plastics/tubing/pumps can take this temperature) Just add a particulate filter to make sure you catch stuff that gets dislodged.

 

A thermal cleaning is probably the best method for your system as it has mixed metals and extensive contamination problems. (It won't sterilize it but it should kill the sludge build-up) Its the same reason you should never let your hot water tank be below 60degC.

 

This set of steps is simple and possible that you can even keep using the systems during the high temp run. (Reduce the number of fans on the external rad till the loop temperature is correct and thermal tagets set so that loop temperature reaches >65degC)

 

Just heat method (will work ok)

 

0) Get a filter to catch the goop.

1) Flush the system, clean any large parts.

2) Run the system for min 8 hours >65 degC.

3) Flush the system, clean any junk from filter.

4) Heat the system again to >65degC for at least 8 hours. 

5) Rinse and repeat until it is clean. (Add tiny amount of a low foaming soap will speed cleaning)

 

(If you check and everything can take higher temperatures getting the loop as hot as possible is better for cleaning)

 

I'd just burn it with liquid fire (concentrated bleach) but that will damage things quickly if not done perfectly. (Don't use bleach basically it will kill everything including the metals)

 

Ideally you would want to add a lot of soap like tergazyme (a enzymatic foaming soap which is compatible with soft metals like copper) it would help penetrate the biofilms and break up any mats. Note this is not intended for mechanical cleaning (with a pump) but it should work fine. (Do not use tergajet or other strongly alkaline cleaners) 

 

When soaking loop temperature will drop but this doesn't matter. Also you can use the GPU's temperature target to set the water temperature. (Disconnect the fans on the external setup. (You may want to somehow plumb in the individual computer rads)

 

http://www.alconox.com/Resources/StandardDocuments/TB/techbull_tergazyme.pdf

 

Clean everything (Soap + Heat)

 

1) Get a particulate filter to prevent clogging during cleaning.

2) Flush the system so that it mostly water leaving ~4L for the soap to be added (Be generous use 1 lb of it or as much as will dissolve in 4L)

3) Heat the loop to 50degC 

4) Dissolve the teragsyme powder into hot water stirring slowly till it is all dissolved making as few bubbles as possible.

5) Add the dissolved soap solution into the system slowly and let it run for a bit to ensure the soap is mixed into the water.

6) Wait 8 hours with the pump off, don't let bubble build up it will foam like crazy if you do. 

7) Drain the system by replacing the water rinse it twice. (I would recommend you get an adapter so you can use the hot water from)

8) Run the system a ~65degC for a day it should kill a lot of stuff. 

9) Add soap again and leave to 8 hours soak.

10) Rinse 3 times

11) System should be perfectly clean, clear plastic tubing discolouration may be permanent.

12) Use a UV filter and biocide after system is cleaned. (Remember at 30-40degC is the perfect zone for stuff to grow)

 

Any water cooled system can probably get contaminated if it never gets hot enough periodically.

 

Doing a high temperature decontamination cycle daily or weekly for a shorter duration would also kill most bacteria/mold/viruses. An in-line heater would do this well when the systems are all off the power to the external fans can be cut off and then. An hour daily would probably work fine when combined with a biocide. (You should also have a vent filter instead of just a open tube to keep mold spores and dust out, it could be as simple as some filter paper rubber banded around the fill tube) 

 

When a system is very contaminated the water will turn black with tergazyme breaking down all the biological stuff including itself. This means it is working. (It will turn brown then darker as it eats up everything. After you rinse it should be all nice and shiny clean. 

[Xsinar]

Linus should probably get a reservoir that is transparent (Maybe Plastic or Glass) so that he could notice if there are any new nasty organisms growing.

[SMURG]

This is really the crux of everything.

 

It would be worth the investment to pump DI water through the loop.  

Deionised water would only really help in terms of cleaning it - for long term use you still need something to kill what gets in there after the fact - unless you have the loop completely sealed anyway.

[d3sl91]

Hey @LinusTech Have you guys looked into Shure's wireless LAVs? I have used them many many times in the past, for years, and have yet to have them break.

[sgloux3470]

Deionised water would only really help in terms of cleaning it - for long term use you still need something to kill what gets in there after the fact - unless you have the loop completely sealed anyway.

Well ideally that would be the case. Flush it, then add DI water and maybe some chlorine as a biocide and dOn't touch it. if they had ptoper valves to disconnect the system from the computers it shouldn't need to be touched like an AIO.

[tsk]

Hello

Very nice project this is!

I'm a process technician and would like to give you some tips.

1.Ditch the steel reservoir and see if you can find a plastic one.

2. Disconnect the computers and flush the tubing from start to end using a 15ppm~ chloride in water solution, flush at maximum flow for 10 mins then fill tubing and leave it for 6 hrs.

3. Add a UV-sterilisator to the loop.

4. Add inlet filter to pump.

5. Add a small ammount of bicode every other month.

This is basically how we treat water systems and drainage to keep them organism free.

[exe5108]

NCIX: http://bit.ly/1zA0MDW

Amazon: http://geni.us/F6y

 

After some noticeable performance drops, we decided to investigate our whole room water cooling loop, and what did we discover? Watch to find out...

 

http://youtu.be/R7sIgBpe6Co

Slug wich is showing up is due to wrong usage of Antifreeze.

1) industrial antifreeze as any antifreez is supposed to be mixed with distilled water.

2) there was used tap water wich is full of bacteria and chemicals which allow to react with Antifreez.

As solution should need to use appropriate cleaning liquid and rinsed with neutraliser.

When filling system should need to premix distilled water with antifreez and only after that fill up system.

As well any antifreez will give you this sludgy growth if not mixed with distilled water.

By the way I can not say what better to use Distilled water or Dionized water, but water cooling system should need to have removable open view filter which would be possible to remove at any given time from system to clean out and keep system running smoothly.

Hope this helps.

[CaseloadGaming]

I'm sure this has been said before, but what about a UV light? it should kill everything that passes under it.http://www.amazon.com/TetraPond-UVC-9-GreenFree-Clarifiers-9-watt/dp/B00474FI48/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423200903&sr=8-1&keywords=tetra+pond+uv this should do the trick.

[Shadow-R]

Terve!

I do not want to complain or anything.

But did you really think that car coolant has something in it that kills living stuff?

I mean: A normal car runs his water anywhere from 90°C to 120°C, which is enough to kill the organic stuff anyway.

Interesting video though. Looking forward to more of it.

Sayonara!
Shadow

[JTB123]

After watching these videos I am constantly having to redefine what a nightmare of a PC problem is. The hits just keep coming! 

[Tam3n]

I hope that all these setbacks won't discourage you from completing the setup (be it ultimately in the new office or the current one). Even though we all want to already see the final results of the loop system, I don't personally mind that there are so many parts, since it's interesting to follow you battling this task along the way.

 

Good luck!