Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

[Blackie Sheen]

Wow. The effect on temps is surprisingly huge

[Aibohphobia]

When you ship the case will you be including these filters or is it something the consumer will need to buy? 

 

Dust filters won't be included. I plan to do something like the M1, where there are custom filters available direct from Demciflex, though if feasible I'd like to also stock them ourselves so you guys can save on shipping.

 

 

I don't get why nearly everyone wants filters. I'd rather clean my Rig with compressed air every 3 month than tollerate less airflow/higher temps.

 

That's what I do, except I only dust it out every few years 

 

But I've had quite a few requests to accommodate dust filters and it doesn't take up any space so why not.

 

 

Wow. The effect on temps is surprisingly huge

 

It is, but talking with some other people that's normal for these filters. They catch lots of dust but are more restrictive to airflow. 

[MourningSouls]

While I use any filters I have available, I really only care about filtering the PSU intake. Too problematic to clean.

[ngaalex]

Are there going to be watercooling grommets (or a place they can be put in) on the back? This is basically my dream case, and watercooling it would be great but I can't see the res without the grommets to mount it on the outside.

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Are there going to be watercooling grommets (or a place they can be put in) on the back? This is basically my dream case, and watercooling it would be great but I can't see the res without the grommets to mount it on the outside.

 

Yes - on the prototype, on the back where it says "NOVA", we're planning to replace the lettering with watercooling cutouts.

 

We're also leaning towards mimicking the exact size and positioning for the cutouts as the NCASE M1, so as to support this particular reservoir, since it's a good low-profile one.

[ngaalex]

Yes - on the prototype, on the back where it says "NOVA", we're planning to replace the lettering with watercooling cutouts.

 

We're also leaning towards mimicking the exact size and positioning for the cutouts as the NCASE M1, so as to support this particular reservoir, since it's a good low-profile one.

 

That looks really good. When this launches, how long will I be able to order it for? Will it be a time window for orders or a limit to the number of orders?

[PlayfulPhoenix]

That looks really good. When this launches, how long will I be able to order it for? Will it be a time window for orders or a limit to the number of orders?

 

We'll be launching a crowdfunding campaign closer to the middle of the year, that will probably run for 30 days or so. But we'll announce when that begins as far ahead of time as possible - on our website, through our newsletter, and on forums such as here.

 

There won't be a limit to the number of orders we can accept, but there will be a minimum number of orders that we need to receive in order to do a production run. Manufacturers have a MOQ, or minimum order quantity, that we must meet in order for the work to be viable and profitable for them.

 

This potentially extends beyond just being able to make Nova, too - MOQ can come into play for variations such as different powder coatings. So it might be possible, for example, to offer more color options, if we reach certain quantities of orders.

[ngaalex]

We'll be launching a crowdfunding campaign closer to the middle of the year, that will probably run for 30 days or so. But we'll announce when that begins as far ahead of time as possible - on our website, through our newsletter, and on forums such as here.

 

There won't be a limit to the number of orders we can accept, but there will be a minimum number of orders that we need to receive in order to do a production run. Manufacturers have a MOQ, or minimum order quantity, that we must meet in order for the work to be viable and profitable for them.

 

This potentially extends beyond just being able to make Nova, too - MOQ can come into play for variations such as different powder coatings. So it might be possible, for example, to offer more color options, if we reach certain quantities of orders.

 

Awesome. What colours are most likely to be offered? Will mixing and matching (like having the side panels blue and the front red) be possible? Whichever way, I'm basically definitely going to get this case. This is a really well done case.

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Awesome. What colours are most likely to be offered? Will mixing and matching (like having the side panels blue and the front red) be possible? Whichever way, I'm basically definitely going to get this case. This is a really well done case.

 

We don't really know yet, beyond the fact that we'll probably offer black as the default.

 

The kinds of colors, quantity of colors, and combination of colors, all depend on the manufacturer we ultimately select, and the aforementioned MOQ they enforce. Once we have a sense of our options, though, we'll gauge interest in various colors from the community and select options at that point.

[Aibohphobia]

To be clear, the following is NOT a promise of ATX PSU support, it's just a possibility we're exploring.

 

 

The idea is to put the PSU over the motherboard where the side bracket is now. There are two ways to do this, each with pros and cons.

 

The first (which I'll be testing since it doesn't involve hacking up the prototype) is to have a bracket to mount the PSU to the side bracket. It's simple, doesn't involve any major modifications to the case, and you can unplug the modular connectors and swing the PSU out of the way to get easy access to the mobo. But it's questionable if the bracket will be strong enough, how practical it is to swing the PSU out, and we're not sure if we can get the internal cable in 16awg.

 

Here's what I've come up with, shown with a 160mm deep ATX PSU.

 

 

The other option would be to cut out the frame rear and have swappable plates for either the PSU or rear 92mm/AC inlet/water cooling holes. That allows for more space in front of the PSU and avoids the issue with the power cord gauge but it'll be more difficult to work inside the case and I'm concerned that cutting out such a large section of the frame will weaken it too much.

 

 

Either way we would add a second 120mm mount above the front 120mm to possibly allow a front 240mm rad if the video card is short enough or for a 120mm rad for the CPU.

 

Thoughts?

[TheTiger]

To be clear, the following is NOT a promise of ATX PSU support, it's just a possibility we're exploring.

 

 

The idea is to put the PSU over the motherboard where the side bracket is now. There are two ways to do this, each with pros and cons.

 

The first (which I'll be testing since it doesn't involve hacking up the prototype) is to have a bracket to mount the PSU to the side bracket. It's simple, doesn't involve any major modifications to the case, and you can unplug the modular connectors and swing the PSU out of the way to get easy access to the mobo. But it's questionable if the bracket will be strong enough, how practical it is to swing the PSU out, and we're not sure if we can get the internal cable in 16awg.

 

-snip-

 

Here's what I've come up with, shown with a 160mm deep ATX PSU.

 

 

The other option would be to cut out the frame rear and have swappable plates for either the PSU or rear 92mm/AC inlet/water cooling holes. That allows for more space in front of the PSU and avoids the issue with the power cord gauge but it'll be more difficult to work inside the case and I'm concerned that cutting out such a large section of the frame will weaken it too much.

 

 

Either way we would add a second 120mm mount above the front 120mm to possibly allow a front 240mm rad if the video card is short enough or for a 120mm rad for the CPU.

 

Thoughts?

 

Would be a great idea, exspecially with the swappable backplates! This would make you're case nearly perfect for every typ of customer!

I think you mean it like this (picture from one of our renders)? I'm just talking about the back!

The problem you mentioned above is, how to stabilize the ATX-PSU, we plan to extend the PSU to the back, just like @ the Elite 110.

 

[MourningSouls]

Much as I don't like having to use SFX/SFX-L PSU's (entirely based on the very limited selection), I am generally unwilling to use AiO's. And with this idea air cooling (with a good cooler) would be out the window.

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Would be a great idea, exspecially with the swappable backplates! This would make you're case nearly perfect for every typ of customer!

I think you mean it like this (picture from one of our renders)? I'm just talking about the back!

The problem you mentioned above is, how to stabilize the ATX-PSU, we plan to extend the PSU to the back, just like @ the Elite 110.

 

The bracket we're prototyping employs a method of supporting ATX that would not result in a swappable backplate, actually.

 

The first method (the one you mention and illustrate) cuts a hole out in the back (similar to your render) where an ATX supply can be mounted. When a SFX supply is used, that hole would be covered with a backplate that has A/C-inlet/92mm-fan/watercooling cutouts.

 

The second method, conversely, utilizes a simple bracket to mount the ATX power supply to the hinged side panel completely internally, avoiding any modifications to the case design. It isn't as ideal for the ATX unit since it must be recessed ~40mm from the back of the case (in order to clear the A/C inlet), but It uses the back-mounted 92mm fan as an active exhaust, lets the power supply draw cool air through the side vent, and has the existing internal extension cable re-route to the PSU plug.

 

Picking between these two options, then, you're essentially choosing which configuration should be more elegant by design: ATX (leaving SFX with a weaker chassis and an awkward backplate), or SFX/SFX-L (requiring that ATX use a bracket and be mounted internally, separated somewhat from the sides).

 

We're preferential to the latter, since it doesn't really compromise the case for any existing configurations, and since the compromises for using that internal bracket are pretty minor - plus, you'd potentially be able to swing the power supply out of the case to access internals, which is pretty neat.

 

Since the second option just enables even more flexibility, and even more configuration options, it's what we're testing.

 

 

Much as I don't like having to use SFX/SFX-L PSU's (entirely based on the very limited selection), I am generally unwilling to use AiO's. And with this idea air cooling (with a good cooler) would be out the window.

 

There would be ~49mm of clearance for CPU coolers in the current design (though this could increase a tad), so you could use a low-profile air cooler (like one of Noctua's own) if you were so inclined.

 

I personally would go the AIO route, though - you'd have the entire front of the case to mount a 120mm or (possibly) a 240mm radiator, or you could use the bottom of the case for a 120mm/240mm radiator if the bottom two PCI slots are unpopulated.

 

TLDR: It's all about options   If we can support ATX in a meaningful way without really compromising what Nova can already do, then we're all for pursuing that.

[Aibohphobia]

The problem you mentioned above is, how to stabilize the ATX-PSU, we plan to extend the PSU to the back, just like @ the Elite 110.

 

Is this a design you're working on? How will you be able to bend this?

[TheTiger]

Much as I don't like having to use SFX/SFX-L PSU's (entirely based on the very limited selection), I am generally unwilling to use AiO's. And with this idea air cooling (with a good cooler) would be out the window.

 

I think in such a small case it's better to get the heat out of the case as fast as possible, so an AIO would be a must have for me. Also you would be able to mount very low profil air-cooler.

 

- plus, you'd potentially be able to swing the power supply out of the case to access internals, which is pretty neat.

 

But to do so, you would have to use a modular PSU and disconnect every cable from the PSU (assuming you have tight cable management), or am I getting you wrong?  

 

Is this a design you're working on? How will you be able to bend this?

 

Yes, this is an early idea of our design.

The plan is to laser-cut one sheet of 2mm or 3mm thick metal/aluminium and then bend it. We might have to consider lager bends, but as far as a local business told us, it should be possible.

But to make clear, this should just be seen as a hobby and we don't even know if there will be more than one prototype.

 

That's why we're so interested to see your case develop!

[PlayfulPhoenix]

But to do so, you would have to use a modular PSU and disconnect every cable from the PSU (assuming you have tight cable management), or am I getting you wrong? 

 

Yes, if you took the shortest path with the cabling. Not the cleanest way to go about it, but still something if you wanted to get at the motherboard.

 

Although... I wonder. Given the length of most ATX cabling, and the small size of Nova, perhaps some cables would be long enough that you could wrap them back over the side bracket, across the back, and behind the motherboard? They'd have to be thin enough, however - the room behind the motherboard trey is very shallow, since it was designed with Silverstone's flat cabling in mind.

[Aibohphobia]

Yes, this is an early idea of our design.

The plan is to laser-cut one sheet of 2mm or 3mm thick metal/aluminium and then bend it. We might have to consider lager bends, but as far as a local business told us, it should be possible.

But to make clear, this should just be seen as a hobby and we don't even know if there will be more than one prototype.

 

That's why we're so interested to see your case develop!

 

Hmm...I'm curious how they plan to do that, from my limited knowledge of sheet metal forming it's not practical to do 4 90degree bends like that.

 

Best of luck to you though, designing a custom case can be difficult but it's rewarding when you get the finished product.

[Seefeldt951]

Hmm...I'm curious how they plan to do that, from my limited knowledge of sheet metal forming it's not practical to do 4 90degree bends like that.

Best of luck to you though, designing a custom case can be difficult but it's rewarding when you get the finished product.

I work at a sheet metal fabrication/welding shop, doing drafting and design, and I have never seen anything like that formed in a press brake in one piece. They would have to find another way to form it or make it in multiple parts and assemble it with fasteners or weld the pieces together etc...

[TheTiger]

Best of luck to you though, designing a custom case can be difficult but it's rewarding when you get the finished product.

 

Thanks a lot, it's very fun and interesting!

 

I work at a sheet metal fabrication/welding shop, doing drafting and design, and I have never seen anything like that formed in a press brake in one piece. They would have to find another way to form it or make it in multiple parts and assemble it with fasteners or weld the pieces together etc...

 

Thanks for the input. It wouldn't be difficult to change our current design to a 2 piece one, which we can assemble together, tho

Let's focus on the Nova again, I wasn't intended to lead this off topic

[Aibohphobia]

Thanks for the input. It wouldn't be difficult to change our current design to a 2 piece one, which we can assemble together, tho

Let's focus on the Nova again, I wasn't intended to lead this off topic

 

Oh, it's fine. I derail this thread as much as anyone.

 

I'd recommend having the rear panel as the separate piece since it's not as visible and it'll need extra forming anyway due to the PCI slot flange. Also, I highly recommend having a large cutout above the expansion slots like on the M1 and Nova to make it easier to clear motherboard components when inserting the video card.

[CatLovingCoder]

Freaking awesome case!!!!! Not really in the market for it, but if I was doing that kind of build I would be first in line to buy it!

Not that you asked, but my personal opinion is, maybe you should stop trying to make it perfect?

I say just do tweaks to make it easier to mass produce, other than that, focus on marketing, funding, and of course getting it produced. Leave the thermal optimizations and such for the 2.0 version. It did okay with a six core and sli right? As of now, I feel like your target market can worry about that type of thing themselves.

Maybe you have good reasons for further optimizing the case, but sometimes perfect is the enemy of good and I really want to see this case be successful!  

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Not that you asked, but my personal opinion is, maybe you should stop trying to make it perfect?

I say just do tweaks to make it easier to mass produce, other than that, focus on marketing, funding, and of course getting it produced. Leave the thermal optimizations and such for the 2.0 version. It did okay with a six core and sli right? As of now, I feel like your target market can worry about that type of thing themselves.

Maybe you have good reasons for further optimizing the case, but sometimes perfect is the enemy of good and I really want to see this case be successful!

Believe me when I say that we're just as eager to get a crowdfunding campaign started as anyone else! It's perhaps one of the biggest reasons Aiboh elected to have me team up with him, actually.

But we also don't want to make and sell a product that serves users poorly, just because we missed something important. You're absolutely right that being too fastidious can be detrimental, but we have a well-paced timetable and continue to work on a lot of things alongside these design changes. I'm not too worried about us perfecting things to oblivion.

The other thing, too, is that although a lot of the changes we're working on can seem minor, they're usually quite impactful - the ATX bracket is fairly self-explanatory, but another change (to illustrate) that we're looking at would increase the width of Nova by just 3mm, after reclaiming space elsewhere. That probably sounds very minor, but in practice it would noticeably increase support for bottom-mounted radiators, and (especially) expandable AIO's.

Consequently, these changes actually play a significant part in broadening Nova's appeal to potential buyers, which is critical for us since we need to meet a minimum order quantity (MOQ) before manufacturing becomes viable.

[Aibohphobia]

In addition to that Nova is a niche design and there's a real possibility there will never be a v2.

[CatLovingCoder]

In addition to that Nova is a niche design and there's a real possibility there will never be a v2.

I disagree, if you get this thing to market at a reasonable price I think it will sell like crazy 

[willemdoom1]

I disagree, if you get this thing to market at a reasonable price I think it will sell like crazy 

I mean, look at the NCASE that had multiple runs of production