Denuvo DRM DESTROYS SSD

[delanyinspiron6400]

I know, this may be a noob question at this point in this discussion, but why do so many people find piracy "okay" and "fair"?

I never got that, to be honest!

 

In my teens, I also pirated a few games, but never felt like it was the right thing to do!

Now I get my games from GOG.com or from steam and some rare games, like this one, from Origin.

 

If a DRM or Anti-Tampering-Solution would seriously hinder my gaming experience, I would understand the outrage, but this is one single post,

and as already some people posted, isn't even true?

 

So I kindly ask, will someone enlighten me on the whole piracy issue, why is this such a morally twisted topic?

 

Just my point of view, if I look at this game, there are countless man/woman hours spend making this game, people that put a lot of effort into making this beautiful game a reality.

Why would I want to pirate and thously not pay them soemthing for that! you can argue, that the money goes to some company, that then pays those employees, but if they earn less

money, the simply need to have a higher output frequency of games, so that they earn enough money, so each game gets less time to be developed!

 

I simply don't understand that, sorry!

[EChondo]

So I kindly ask, will someone enlighten me on the whole piracy issue, why is this such a morally twisted topic?

Honestly opinions vary widely. I only condone piracy if media you want to consume is not available to you legally. For example, there are people in third world countries that don't have access to Netflix or any other medium to consume content, so their only option is to pirate the content. Or there is an obscure TV show you used to watch as a kid that isn't available digitally nor physically legally anymore, but there are plenty of torrents online.

 

Oh and I also condone buying a video game, lets say Far Cry 4, but if you don't want to deal with DRM, just pirate/crack it after you bought it. You get the game in the form you want it in while the publisher/developer get their money.

 

 

If a DRM or Anti-Tampering-Solution would seriously hinder my gaming experience, I would understand the outrage, but this is one single post,

and as already some people posted, isn't even true?

There have been so many reports from Uplay, GFWL, SecuROM and so many other DRM's that cause performance issues, loss of save files, corrupted data, etc. etc. It can hinder your gaming experience, but that doesn't it mean it always does. This post is just adding onto that, and frankly I don't trust the Russion source, but I also don't trust that single screenshot of just DA:I monitoring, how do we know the DRM isn't a separate process? I would love it if Linus or Luke actually look into this and we get a factual answer.

[xAcid9]

Before: 1720GB

 

After: 1720GB

 

Game runs great on my system. It did utilized my CPU up to 50% while gaming tho, the only game i've play that did that.

[Syntaxvgm]

I know, this may be a noob question at this point in this discussion, but why do so many people find piracy "okay" and "fair"?

I never got that, to be honest!

 

In my teens, I also pirated a few games, but never felt like it was the right thing to do!

Now I get my games from GOG.com or from steam and some rare games, like this one, from Origin.

 

If a DRM or Anti-Tampering-Solution would seriously hinder my gaming experience, I would understand the outrage, but this is one single post,

and as already some people posted, isn't even true?

 

So I kindly ask, will someone enlighten me on the whole piracy issue, why is this such a morally twisted topic?

 

Just my point of view, if I look at this game, there are countless man/woman hours spend making this game, people that put a lot of effort into making this beautiful game a reality.

Why would I want to pirate and thously not pay them soemthing for that! you can argue, that the money goes to some company, that then pays those employees, but if they earn less

money, the simply need to have a higher output frequency of games, so that they earn enough money, so each game gets less time to be developed!

 

I simply don't understand that, sorry!

Well, normally I go on about how I'm pissed they are hurting real customers and foolishly thinking they can stop the pirates, who in the end get a better experience but, yah know what? I think this is the first instance of game drm I can call "successful" in the short term in the very least. 

The extreme SSD wear is reported by  a LOT of people, it isn't a fake issue. BUT I don't think it's happening for most players, and there are a lot of examples of it not happening. I think it must be some sort of issue, and not how it is supposed to work. 

 

Do I find piracy "fair"?

No, almost never. Not even in the Ubisoft case. If you pirate their game, you are giving them what they think are missed sales, and that just means they will try more of their ridiculous drm. Almost every Ubisoft single-player game I have bought in recent times I downloaded a crack for, it's ridiculous. I mentioned denuvo actually working because it's an important point in my argument: I hate drm because it just hurts paying customers. It's usually a ridiculous pursuit to try and stop piracy, and you really usually only end up hurting your customers. The same pursuit is what leads lawmakers, payed off by interests like hollywood, to pretty much try repeatedly ruin the internet and everything it essentially is. 

 

I could go on about intellectual rights and whatnot for pages, it's really an important issue to me. But I wont here.

What I will say is piracy is not stealing, and not even really defined in the law as such. I could really only properly explain my viewpoint using a really long write up about it. The way I look at it really makes sense, I've never had anyone be able to argue against it. 

 

And it's a fact of life. You aren't going to stop them, and trying damages the free web. 

The only place that piracy actually really angers me is those who pirate software to use in a commercial settings. If you are using software as a tool to operate a business or make money, then you owe the creator for the usage rights. 

 

 

Other piracy, well it's a fact of life. Right or wrong, it happens, and it's a grey area and a personal choice for me. 

I've said time and time again that an indie developer is no more due his money than a large corporation that spits out AAA games and makes hundreds of millions per year. There are a lot of people that make the "big company doesn't need the money" type of argument, but I've never believed that the size of the publisher should change anything. You either pay for the product or you don't, the wealth of who you are paying is not in any way a reasonable argument either way. I have a lot of reasons for that argument, but a quick way of thinking about it is it's similar to the reasons of believing in a flat tax percentage. Not matter who you are or what kind of money you have, "justice" should not be uneven like that. It's not right to tax the hell out of people and take 75%+ of their income just becuase they are well off, and it's no more right to just pirate games that large publishers make. Either one is typically not centered in a rational argument, but is "justice" based on picking who you like, and that's not right.

 

And this ties into what I think about the Ubisoft argument. You either boycott their products on moral grounds or you don't. Pirating is not boycotting. It's telling them you hate them but still want to play their shitty games, but want to avoid paying. So they will implement harsher and dumber drm tools. 

[Trik'Stari]

SSDs are always a wise investment to have, not just for gaming. But to some people on this site, they only think in "gaming" terms and not in "general" terms. 

 

My RAID 0 SSDs are perfect as scratch disks. Final Cut loves the speed afforded to it by a pair of drives that don't give a bottleneck when working with 4K files. Not to mention the general speed in doing, anything. 

The fact that I can load BF4 maps in a few seconds doesn't hurt either, of course. 

Cannot agree more. All of the people I play SWTOR with are seriously wondering how I always manage to load in faster than them, even though I have a significantly slower internet speed.

[Syntaxvgm]

.. and so another reason for gamers to not use SSDs LOL!  Glad I never bought one of these things and glad I openly speak against these being put in gaming rigs when they really don't add much.

I sure hope you are joking. They add a lot. And the only reason they should be left out is budget. They are ESSENTIAL for workstations processing large raw files, and really do improve the general gaming experience. I can't live preview a lot of video without them. Sure, no fps boost, but you do get plenty of other advantages. The whole computer feels snappier with an SSD. 

Laptops save a LOT of battery using an SSD. 

Load times in games are extremely diminished. 

Boot times are a snap. 

Things happen when you click on them. SSDs are worth the 60$ just for the improved experience of using your computer and simple tasks like browsing the web with one. 

They are a lot more drop proof and reliable than hard drives, and if money is available I STRONGLY encourage them in laptops. 

They are not yet ready for storage arrays or any max price/storage solution, but saying they are useless or dont add much is ignorant. 

 

 

That's more ignorant than the "no high end gaming machine should have an i7" argument that I used to see all of the time. 

[Speedbird]

Google Translate?

[Syntaxvgm]

Google Translate?

HAHA! I love the santa hat. Just squeezed that on in there

[delanyinspiron6400]

Well, normally I go on about how I'm pissed they are hurting real customers and foolishly thinking they can stop the pirates, who in the end get a better experience but, yah know what? I think this is the first instance of game drm I can call "successful" in the short term in the very least. 

The extreme SSD wear is reported by  a LOT of people, it isn't a fake issue. BUT I don't think it's happening for most players, and there are a lot of examples of it not happening. I think it must be some sort of issue, and not how it is supposed to work. 

 

Do I find piracy "fair"?

No, almost never. Not even in the Ubisoft case. If you pirate their game, you are giving them what they think are missed sales, and that just means they will try more of their ridiculous drm. Almost every Ubisoft single-player game I have bought in recent times I downloaded a crack for, it's ridiculous. I mentioned denuvo actually working because it's an important point in my argument: I hate drm because it just hurts paying customers. It's usually a ridiculous pursuit to try and stop piracy, and you really usually only end up hurting your customers. The same pursuit is what leads lawmakers, payed off by interests like hollywood, to pretty much try repeatedly ruin the internet and everything it essentially is. 

 

I could go on about intellectual rights and whatnot for pages, it's really an important issue to me. But I wont here.

What I will say is piracy is not stealing, and not even really defined in the law as such. I could really only properly explain my viewpoint using a really long write up about it. The way I look at it really makes sense, I've never had anyone be able to argue against it. 

 

And it's a fact of life. You aren't going to stop them, and trying damages the free web. 

The only place that piracy actually really angers me is those who pirate software to use in a commercial settings. If you are using software as a tool to operate a business or make money, then you owe the creator for the usage rights. 

 

 

Other piracy, well it's a fact of life. Right or wrong, it happens, and it's a grey area and a personal choice for me. 

I've said time and time again that an indie developer is no more due his money than a large corporation that spits out AAA games and makes hundreds of millions per year. There are a lot of people that make the "big company doesn't need the money" type of argument, but I've never believed that the size of the publisher should change anything. You either pay for the product or you don't, the wealth of who you are paying is not in any way a reasonable argument either way. I have a lot of reasons for that argument, but a quick way of thinking about it is it's similar to the reasons of believing in a flat tax percentage. Not matter who you are or what kind of money you have, "justice" should not be uneven like that. It's not right to tax the hell out of people and take 75%+ of their income just becuase they are well off, and it's no more right to just pirate games that large publishers make. Either one is typically not centered in a rational argument, but is "justice" based on picking who you like, and that's not right.

 

And this ties into what I think about the Ubisoft argument. You either boycott their products on moral grounds or you don't. Pirating is not boycotting. It's telling them you hate them but still want to play their shitty games, but want to avoid paying. So they will implement harsher and dumber drm tools. 

 

Thanks for the reply! Why would you say, that piracy isn't stealing? Someone did some work and made it available for purchase, not for free! Doesn't taking it, without paying for it, automatically make it stealing?

 

I've had this argument with a lot of people, and they always say, they will play those games and "try" them, and if they are good, they will buy it eventually, but is that really fair?

I don't know, I would consider that not really fair! A lot of those games are "a piece of art", if you like it or not, depends on taste and other factors.

 

I would suggest, that playing a Demo and/or watch a trusted review or Let's play can give you incentive to buy/not buy a game.

 

This topic comes especially to hard, because I know how hard and tiresome software development can be, if I would spend endless hours developing a product,

and then hopefully sell it, I wouldn't like to see pirates take my work for free.

 

 

And although DRMs as of now don't prohibit piracy, what would be a better option?

I think producers have the right to try and hinder people from trying to "steal" their product, haven't they? What would you do, if you invested the work?

[bcredeur97]

wow... thats insane. no game should have to write to a disk that much just while playing it.

 

 

this will turn a lot of people away from dragon age

[DeViLzzz]

Cannot agree more. All of the people I play SWTOR with are seriously wondering how I always manage to load in faster than them, even though I have a significantly slower internet speed.

.. and in a dungeon or raid a proper group would wait for all in the party to be there so what does it matter?  SSDs are pretty much useless for gamers.

[DeViLzzz]

I sure hope you are joking. They add a lot. And the only reason they should be left out is budget. They are ESSENTIAL for workstations processing large raw files, and really do improve the general gaming experience. I can't live preview a lot of video without them. Sure, no fps boost, but you do get plenty of other advantages. The whole computer feels snappier with an SSD. 

Laptops save a LOT of battery using an SSD. 

Load times in games are extremely diminished. 

Boot times are a snap. 

Things happen when you click on them. SSDs are worth the 60$ just for the improved experience of using your computer and simple tasks like browsing the web with one. 

They are a lot more drop proof and reliable than hard drives, and if money is available I STRONGLY encourage them in laptops. 

They are not yet ready for storage arrays or any max price/storage solution, but saying they are useless or dont add much is ignorant. 

 

 

That's more ignorant than the "no high end gaming machine should have an i7" argument that I used to see all of the time. 

 

They are pretty much useless for gaming and now with this information shared here by the OP it gives even more reason not to get an SSD for gaming. You also in the post above mentioned many things that have nothing to do with a gaming rig. Have a nice day.

[Izaya Orihara]

Probably a good way to kill your SSD when it's almost out of warranty. (In germany you get a new warranty with a replacement product) 

[DeViLzzz]

wow... thats insane. no game should have to write to a disk that much just while playing it.

 

 

this will turn a lot of people away from dragon age

.. but with a hard drive no worries for me

[DeViLzzz]

So at this point, it seems we gamers are better off making our own games from scratch rather than buying any triple A titles....

 

I'm gonna laugh if this thing starts bricking consoles (that is if consoles use this DRM. I'm guessing they don't because they get treated with "special" gloves.

 

 

Yeah, ignorance isn't really a good position to speak from. They add a hell of a lot more than you think. I enjoy having almost 0 load time in most things even with a shitty 10Mbps connection.

Ignorance I don't think so.  They do not add much for gaming.  Anyone that argues that is idiotic.

[DeViLzzz]

Well it's a good thing I wasn't planning on buying this unless the DRM is removed (as unlikely as that is).

.. or you could just use a hard drive?

[DeViLzzz]

I guess we're going to have to keep a list of games that feature this DRM if this is true as I sure as hell don't want to have any game kill an SSD.

In fact shouldn't we be able to make them replace the SSD or at least add a lame warning sticker that says caution not to be used with SSD on the damn thing.

Simpler solution is to use a hard drive.

[Syntaxvgm]

They are pretty much useless for gaming and now with this information shared here by the OP it gives even more reason not to get an SSD for gaming. You also in the post above mentioned many things that have nothing to do with a gaming rig. Have a nice day.

So on a gaming rig you don't ever

-load maps

-browse the internet

-boot the computer

-use windows

-copy files

-record gameplay (you do know recording 60fps gameplay is damn near impossible on a mechanical drive with something like fraps, right?)

-appreciate drives that are less likely to fail

Ok

[Syntaxvgm]

Thanks for the reply! Why would you say, that piracy isn't stealing? Someone did some work and made it available for purchase, not for free! Doesn't taking it, without paying for it, automatically make it stealing?

 

I've had this argument with a lot of people, and they always say, they will play those games and "try" them, and if they are good, they will buy it eventually, but is that really fair?

I don't know, I would consider that not really fair! A lot of those games are "a piece of art", if you like it or not, depends on taste and other factors.

 

I would suggest, that playing a Demo and/or watch a trusted review or Let's play can give you incentive to buy/not buy a game.

 

This topic comes especially to hard, because I know how hard and tiresome software development can be, if I would spend endless hours developing a product,

and then hopefully sell it, I wouldn't like to see pirates take my work for free.

 

 

And although DRMs as of now don't prohibit piracy, what would be a better option?

I think producers have the right to try and hinder people from trying to "steal" their product, haven't they? What would you do, if you invested the work?

On the not stealing thing, I'm talking purely legal definition. And to explain why it's not, it takes a good deal of writing. But, yes. It's fair and right to pay for those games. When you pay for IP, you pay for usage rights.

[DeViLzzz]

So on a gmaing rig you don't ever

-load maps

-browse the internet

-boot the computer

-use windows

-copy files

-record gmaeplay

-appreciate drives that are less likely to fail

Ok

LOL. Really? This is the best you can do?

[jaggysnake57]

.. and in a dungeon or raid a proper group would wait for all in the party to be there so what does it matter?  SSDs are pretty much useless for gamers.

TROOOOOOOOOOOOLL

[DeViLzzz]

TROOOOOOOOOOOOLL

No see I was responding to posts other people made.  Can you understand that?  I made a valid point in response to someone post and all you can say to it is TROOOOOOOOOOOOLL?

[Syntaxvgm]

LOL. Really? This is the best you can do?

Well everything I said is an advantage of having an ssd, so that's all I need to do unless you can prove them wrong.

[Trik'Stari]

Ignorance I don't think so.  They do not add much for gaming.  Anyone that argues that is idiotic.

If you haven't owned one or used one for gaming then you are lacking first hand knowledge of it's advantages, hence ignorance. It makes the entire system snappier and more responsive. It's just better in every way except storage density to price. It's a new technology and will eventually replace HDD's so wake the hell up.

 

Not to mention that on a game like this that has such horrible DRM, you could possible encounter performance issues from having a slow HDD when the information is being moved from the ssd to system memory. The simple fact is, you are flat out wrong.

 

LOL. Really? This is the best you can do?

Yeah I do like 4 of those things on a regular basis whilst playing.

 

You can read off statistics and speeds and all that wonderful stuff, but until you've used one yourself, you will remain ignorant of it's advantages. Plain and simple fact.

(note, ignorance is a lack of knowledge here, not an insult)

 

Oh, another great feature. When I install a game from disc (like swtor because I have a hard copy) the installation is pretty much done in 5 minutes. Quicker if I had 2 drives instead of just 1

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Ignorance I don't think so.  They do not add much for gaming.  Anyone that argues that is idiotic.

By the time your PC finally managed to enter an instance, the SSD players will be halfway to the first boss or bored to death waiting for your slow ass.