iMac 5k Retina Display

[Valentyn]

 

 

and even if all of that was totally wrong (it isnt), this is linus tech tips, not do what your grama would tech tips. the ability to upgrade ram is well within the grasp of a lot of users and it would be silly for linus to ignore this feature just because he didnt configure the higher ram amount initially.

Let's not forget that Apple even gives instructions on how the average user can upgrade the RAM.

 

They've been doing it for years. 

http://support.apple.com/en-ie/HT3011

 

Lots of pictures per specific model for people as well.

[Guest MrE]

One thing which frustrates me when trying to discuss anything where there are 2 side, whether it be politics, AMD vs Nvidia, Apple vs Microsoft and so on, it seems like some people just cannot look past their own prejudice and are almost tunnel visioning only comparing on one single thing instead of the whole overall picture.

To put this into context with the whole Microsoft vs Apple debate, or argument rather, which most threads about anything Apple related likely turns into, It amazes me people cannot look beyond the fact that not all PC's are bought and used for gaming.
Sure, Windows based PC's rocks the gaming industry - there is no argument there - but then saying anything Apple releases is overpriced and that it sucks at gaming is just stupid.

Had it ever occurred to these people that maybe a lot of the people who buy eg. an iMac are not buying it to game on it, or because they are not aware that you can get something more powerful and cheaper which is not a Mac?
Not all PC's are being bought for gaming, or with the "gaming power" it can deliver for the price, in mind.

in response to the OP. I hope Linus approaches this with an open mind, and does not focus on what it "lacks" in comparison to a windows PC, but look at the things it is actually build for.

Thanks for reading through (I guess, if you got this far) this small wall of text.

[MBisFrenchy]

I think they should offer a middle of the way spec in terms of cost and resolution. The price is a bit steep.

[NeoZeon]

The funny thing is most mac users have used windows in some capacity where as many windows users have never really committed to learn how to use OSX. As if we, the mac user, are uninformed. 

 

I don't know who the average mac user is. I live in a very closed bubble of scientists, in which my department has about 200 of them. We all use Macs.  We have different priorities than playing Assassins Creed in 4k.

 

Grow up, we aren't you. Once you think you know you stop thinking. The same dogmatism that "apple" users are accused of is strong in the gaming community. If one day you learn how to think, you will be able to realize that people are different, have different needs. Perhaps they use OSX at work and just find it easier to have an OSX computer at home, because after a grueling day of work they don't want something different, but a homogenous experience. What rallying against mac because "windows is better" suggests is that what you value in life is better. How does anyone buying a mac hurt you? Does that stop you from upholding your own values? What do you think about? 

[interslice]

I think they should offer a middle of the way spec in terms of cost and resolution. The price is a bit steep.

..you mean like the non retina imac? or the 21.5" imac?

[bossman111]

The funny thing is most mac users have used windows in some capacity where as many windows users have never really committed to learn how to use OSX. As if we, the mac user, are uninformed. 

 

I don't know who the average mac user is. I live in a very closed bubble of scientists, in which my department has about 200 of them. We all use Macs.  We have different priorities than playing Assassins Creed in 4k.

 

Grow up, we aren't you. Once you think you know you stop thinking. The same dogmatism that "apple" users are accused of is strong in the gaming community. If one day you learn how to think, you will be able to realize that people are different, have different needs. Perhaps they use OSX at work and just find it easier to have an OSX computer at home, because after a grueling day of work they don't want something different, but a homogenous experience. What rallying against mac because "windows is better" suggests is that what you value in life is better. How does anyone buying a mac hurt you? Does that stop you from upholding your own values? What do you think about? 

 

Speaking as an individual windows user, the reason why I personally dislike Apple and most of their products besides the user interface, is because of its marketing and way way way overpriced tags.

 

I have tried to use Mac OS but as I am accustomed to Windows I found it very inefficient when trying to multi-task on the Mac.

 

The problems I have with the Mac OS are as follows (Please note these are my personal faults with the OS):

1.) As I have to deal with several different files at once ranging from text documents to book keeping documents I find it very irritating that I have to constantly go to "All my Files" Tab to search for those individual files some of which I don't even the know the name. On windows I would simply put the files that I need into a labelled folder on the desktop and the ones that I use all the time I would dedicate a specific place on the desktop for it. (the dock on the Mac OS is nice but it cannot fit all the files I need it too, in order to get to it in a timely fashion)

 

2.)When I need to maximize a window I have to click the tiny grey arrows at the left which is simple enough....but when I want to return it to size....I have to scroll my cursor to the top left and wait for the drop down menu to pop and then I can locate the button to return it to size.

 

3.) The shortcuts.....If I want to get back to the desktop I don't want to have to remember that I have to use three fingers and swipe it whichever way (Actually its three fingers and thumb making a pinching motion......nvm) or if I want to scroll, I have to use two fingers and move them up and down as opposed to having a wheel on a mouse or clicking the bottom right of the screen.

 

4.) Some of the software I use aren't compatible with the Mac OS but I'm hoping that in the future they will eventually devote time to making all these applications Apple friendly instead of making an Apple only software (God knows its impossible to move to Number from using Excel >_>)

 

Now that being said they're some great things about Mac's that were awesome:

1.) Cool apps

2.) Love voice note (where you talk and it types)

3.) Time machine is perhaps the greatest thing Mac has ever produced in terms of backing up data.... I stand by this. Time machine is the pinnacle of Apple....

 

The thing I absolutely hate about Apple is the crap hardware they sell to you....

 

Exhibit A:

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-ME086LL-21-5-Inch-Desktop-VERSION/dp/B004YLCIC4/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1415943668&sr=1-1&keywords=i+mac+computer

-2.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5 Processor (Turbo Boost up to 3.2 GHz) with 6MB L3 cache

-1TB (5400-rpm) Hard Drive, 8 GB (Two 4 GB) of 1600MHz DDR3 Memory

- 21.5-inch (Diagonal) LED-backlit Display with IPS Technology; 1920-by-1080 Resolution

- Intel Iris Pro Graphics

Overall Price Tag: $1279.00

 

Exhibit B:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/s4RyQ7

Has MUCH BETTER processor

Has 3x Capacity + faster HDD

MUCH BETTER GRAPHICS

Overall Price Tag: $1274.83

[NeoZeon]

Speaking as an individual windows user, the reason why I personally dislike Apple and most of their products besides the user interface, is because of its marketing and way way way overpriced tags.

 

I have tried to use Mac OS but as I am accustomed to Windows I found it very inefficient when trying to multi-task on the Mac.

 

The problems I have with the Mac OS are as follows (Please note these are my personal faults with the OS):

1.) As I have to deal with several different files at once ranging from text documents to book keeping documents I find it very irritating that I have to constantly go to "All my Files" Tab to search for those individual files some of which I don't even the know the name. On windows I would simply put the files that I need into a labelled folder on the desktop and the ones that I use all the time I would dedicate a specific place on the desktop for it. (the dock on the Mac OS is nice but it cannot fit all the files I need it too, in order to get to it in a timely fashion)

 

2.)When I need to maximize a window I have to click the tiny grey arrows at the left which is simple enough....but when I want to return it to size....I have to scroll my cursor to the top left and wait for the drop down menu to pop and then I can locate the button to return it to size.

 

3.) The shortcuts.....If I want to get back to the desktop I don't want to have to remember that I have to use three fingers and swipe it whichever way (Actually its three fingers and thumb making a pinching motion......nvm) or if I want to scroll, I have to use two fingers and move them up and down as opposed to having a wheel on a mouse or clicking the bottom right of the screen.

 

4.) Some of the software I use aren't compatible with the Mac OS but I'm hoping that in the future they will eventually devote time to making all these applications Apple friendly instead of making an Apple only software (God knows its impossible to move to Number from using Excel >_>)

 

Now that being said they're some great things about Mac's that were awesome:

1.) Cool apps

2.) Love voice note (where you talk and it types)

3.) Time machine is perhaps the greatest thing Mac has ever produced in terms of backing up data.... I stand by this. Time machine is the pinnacle of Apple....

 

The thing I absolutely hate about Apple is the crap hardware they sell to you....

 

Exhibit A:

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-ME086LL-21-5-Inch-Desktop-VERSION/dp/B004YLCIC4/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1415943668&sr=1-1&keywords=i+mac+computer

-2.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5 Processor (Turbo Boost up to 3.2 GHz) with 6MB L3 cache

-1TB (5400-rpm) Hard Drive, 8 GB (Two 4 GB) of 1600MHz DDR3 Memory

- 21.5-inch (Diagonal) LED-backlit Display with IPS Technology; 1920-by-1080 Resolution

- Intel Iris Pro Graphics

Overall Price Tag: $1279.00

 

Exhibit B:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/s4RyQ7

Has MUCH BETTER processor

Has 3x Capacity + faster HDD

MUCH BETTER GRAPHICS

Overall Price Tag: $1274.83

 

 

You just compared an all and one to a custom built computer. These are two very different products. This is also the case for windows all in ones: you trade convenience for power.

 

also with education discount: http://store.apple.com/us-hed/buy-mac/imac?product=MF883LL/A&step=config# 

 

1049.

 

Lets say it takes 3-4 hours to build a computer (I haven't done it in a while). Someone with my degree/experience gets paid ~ 150 a hour. So now it costs 450-600 dollars to build it. 

 

Try being educated and looking at the problem through different lenses, such as the working professional ( or families of working professionals, who because of the price of the computers are a large polarity of their customers).

 

1) You can put files on the desktop, perhaps you aren't explaining your problem correctly.

 

2) you can set keyboard shortcuts to template window sizes and locations (divy). 

 

3) control + up also works. Maybe try googling OSX shortcuts. Its easily more customizable than windows in terms of user interface.

 

4) That's really the the Achilles heel  of OSX, but that doesn't mean its a bad operating system. It just means you need to make an informed decision before you buy. I personally do not need to use windows for anything, as I don't have much time for video games. \

 

While I appreciate the ernest attempt, and your own personal misgivings, you come off uneducated. Which is fine, it takes time to learn these things, and perhaps its not worth it to you. Please stop speaking like an authority on the matter, as you really have no idea.

[bossman111]

You just compared an all and one to a custom built computer. These are two very different products. This is also the case for windows all in ones: you trade convenience for power.

 

also with education discount: http://store.apple.com/us-hed/buy-mac/imac?product=MF883LL/A&step=config# 

 

1049.

 

Lets say it takes 3-4 hours to build a computer (I haven't done it in a while). Someone with my degree/experience gets paid ~ 150 a hour. So now it costs 450-600 dollars to build it. 

 

Try being educated and looking at the problem through different lenses, such as the working professional ( or families of working professionals, who because of the price of the computers are a large polarity of their customers).

 

1) You can put files on the desktop, perhaps you aren't explaining your problem correctly.

 

2) you can set keyboard shortcuts to template window sizes and locations (divy). 

 

3) control + up also works. Maybe try googling OSX shortcuts. Its easily more customizable than windows in terms of user interface.

 

4) That's really the the Achilles heel  of OSX, but that doesn't mean its a bad operating system. It just means you need to make an informed decision before you buy. I personally do not need to use windows for anything, as I don't have much time for video games. \

 

While I appreciate the ernest attempt, and your own personal misgivings, you come off uneducated. Which is fine, it takes time to learn these things, and perhaps its not worth it to you. Please stop speaking like an authority on the matter, as you really have no idea.

 

Wow  :lol:

Quite a few misgivings here where to start?

 

1.)The custom computer I made can be used for all applications( except for heavy/professional media editing ofc) very similar to the mac with the exception that it is a much more powerful and faster computer as well as having more storage capacity yet it costs the same. Regarding the "education discount" that you are referring to, it is not a discount but a less powerful mac from the one I showed you (Apple iMac ME086LL/A 21.5-Inch Desktop is the one I showed you and the "Education Discount" you refer to is the Apple iMac MF883LL/A 21.5-Inch Desktop). Also please see this link for a much more powerful pc at a cheaper price: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/gqbDhM ($1034.29)

 

2.) Someone with your degree gets $150/hr and so you add on the additional cost of 3 -4 hours of building a computer as an expense to the computer............. so what you are telling me is that if you were to build your own computer you would attribute time as a cost?

I'm sorry but that is just plain ridiculous, that is similar to saying if I bought a mac I should attribute the several hours it takes to fully understand its software applications as an additional cost. If that were the case, then Macs would easily range $5000+

 

3.) The problems I've listed, (not sure if you read the actual post or not before getting up on your high horse) were my personal faults with the operating system. This means that the problems I listed were from my perspective (or from looking at it from my lense as you would say, I suppose :unsure: ) .

 

4.) Speaking as a working professional who uses specialized software, I am saying that from my perspective using mac OS proved to be very inefficient as opposed to using windows 7/8/8.1

 

Now while I do not appreciate you insinuating that I am uneducated for having an opinion based on my personal experiences I cannot help but feel that you yourself are either ignorant or just plain refuse to open your mind to other people's perspectives, for example:

 

While I appreciate the ernest attempt, and your own personal misgivings, you come off uneducated. Which is fine, it takes time to learn these things, and perhaps its not worth it to you. 

 

 

Yes it does take time to learn these things and it also takes time to learn how to build a computer. If one can "somehow" apply this ability of "learning" how to use a mac, then one can very well apply said ability to learn how to do anything really, even if its building a computer. (Do not misconstrued my words, when I say "learning how to use a mac" I am referring to learning as an ability most humans possess in general).

By doing so one can make better gains on the value of money spent or can overall save tremendous amounts of money.

[ShadowCaptain]

 

1.) As I have to deal with several different files at once ranging from text documents to book keeping documents I find it very irritating that I have to constantly go to "All my Files" Tab to search for those individual files some of which I don't even the know the name. On windows I would simply put the files that I need into a labelled folder on the desktop and the ones that I use all the time I would dedicate a specific place on the desktop for it. (the dock on the Mac OS is nice but it cannot fit all the files I need it too, in order to get to it in a timely fashion)

 

2.)When I need to maximize a window I have to click the tiny grey arrows at the left which is simple enough....but when I want to return it to size....I have to scroll my cursor to the top left and wait for the drop down menu to pop and then I can locate the button to return it to size.

 

3.) The shortcuts.....If I want to get back to the desktop I don't want to have to remember that I have to use three fingers and swipe it whichever way (Actually its three fingers and thumb making a pinching motion......nvm) or if I want to scroll, I have to use two fingers and move them up and down as opposed to having a wheel on a mouse or clicking the bottom right of the screen.

 

4.) Some of the software I use aren't compatible with the Mac OS but I'm hoping that in the future they will eventually devote time to making all these applications Apple friendly instead of making an Apple only software (God knows its impossible to move to Number from using Excel >_>)

 

 

 

 

Exhibit A:

 

Exhibit B:

 

 

1) You can add folders to the desktop...you can add individual files to the desktop, you can use spotlight search to search for any files just like windows, you can also tag documents with different tags to make finding them easier

 

You can have tabs in finder, and open multiple finder windows to make moving files around easy.... not sure of your issue?

 

2) Press escape - if a program is in full screen, press escape and it returns to its normal size, there are also keyboard shortcuts to do this if you prefer

 

3) Then you can use keyboard shortcuts to get back to the desktop, or you can use the dock, or you can plug in a mouse with a scroll wheel.... 

 

Honestly the gestures take getting used to, if you dont like them, you can disable those features completely (features like spaces/expose etc can be turned off)

 

4) There is quite a lot of Mac software, you said Excel? well there is Microsoft office for mac, and has been for the last like 10 years. you can also install windows in parallels and open full windows programs within the OSX enviroment

 

 

Just saying, its a different system,  you cannot expect it to work the way you are used to.... imagine if you had used mac for 30 years... and moved to windows, you would have the same amount of complaints about user interface 

 

You are 100% entitled to your opinion, if you dont like the interface and machines, awesome thats a choice you are free to make

 

 

Also... Exhibit A and B are custom desktops... find a windows All in one with that spec, one of the great things people love about the iMac is that its a compact unit, it can sit almost anywhere, there is no tower, there is one cable (if using wifi and the included keyboard/mouse etc) 

 

Anyway

[interslice]

 

3.) The problems I've listed, (not sure if you read the actual post or not before getting up on your high horse) were my personal faults with the operating system. This means that the problems I listed were from my perspective (or from looking at it from my lense as you would say, I suppose :unsure: ) .

 

to be fair a decent amount was just wrong info. you can store folders on the desktop. theres no need to use all my files at all. in fact the file management is very very similar to windows. theres (customizable) keyboard shortcuts to full screen an app and take it back out of full screen.

 

 

3.) The shortcuts.....If I want to get back to the desktop I don't want to have to remember that I have to use three fingers and swipe it whichever way (Actually its three fingers and thumb making a pinching motion......nvm) or if I want to scroll, I have to use two fingers and move them up and down as opposed to having a wheel on a mouse or clicking the bottom right of the screen.

this part is pretty much entirely wrong. you dont have to use 3 finger swipe to switch apps. you can command tab, you can click the icons on the dock, you can use mission control (which also has a gesture and a shortcut, which is customizable). you can use scroll bars to scroll, you can use the magic mouse instead of the trackpad, or just what ever mouse you would use from a pc, scroll wheel and all.

 

 

 

4.) Some of the software I use aren't compatible with the Mac OS but I'm hoping that in the future they will eventually devote time to making all these applications Apple friendly instead of making an Apple only software (God knows its impossible to move to Number from using Excel >_>)

this part just doesnt make sense. apple makes numbers. the people who dont make apple apps arent devoting any time to making apple only software. they're two completely separate bodies; apple isnt going to devote time into making pc apps mac compatible. thats probably not even legal in most cases. and also in addition there is a mac version of excel.

 

you make it sound like these are limitations of the OS when in fact you simply havent set it up to use it the way you want.

[MrSuperb]

1.) As I have to deal with several different files at once ranging from text documents to book keeping documents I find it very irritating that I have to constantly go to "All my Files" Tab to search for those individual files some of which I don't even the know the name. On windows I would simply put the files that I need into a labelled folder on the desktop and the ones that I use all the time I would dedicate a specific place on the desktop for it. (the dock on the Mac OS is nice but it cannot fit all the files I need it too, in order to get to it in a timely fashion)

The dock is to launch (your most used) and switch between Applications.

You can make a folder on your desktop, the same way you can do in windows. Even better in OS X you can now assign custom lables to your data like "Project XY 2014" and can then easily filter only the files needed for Project XY 2014.

Even better in OS X your desktop isn't cluttered with links to Applications.

 

2.)When I need to maximize a window I have to click the tiny grey arrows at the left which is simple enough....but when I want to return it to size....I have to scroll my cursor to the top left and wait for the drop down menu to pop and then I can locate the button to return it to size.

This also seems to be more like a Windows-Habbit-Problem then OS X fault.

3.) The shortcuts.....If I want to get back to the desktop I don't want to have to remember that I have to use three fingers and swipe it whichever way (Actually its three fingers and thumb making a pinching motion......nvm) or if I want to scroll, I have to use two fingers and move them up and down as opposed to having a wheel on a mouse or clicking the bottom right of the screen.

You can assign any shortcuts you like. I don't see how additional gestures are a problem? In fact the implementation of two finger scrolling is one of the best and most intuitive around?! You still can use your mousewheel or klick at the right bottom of the window or use your keyboard.

4.) Some of the software I use aren't compatible with the Mac OS but I'm hoping that in the future they will eventually devote time to making all these applications Apple friendly instead of making an Apple only software (God knows its impossible to move to Number from using Excel >_>)

Apples iWork was never intended to be a full replacement of Micrsoft Office. Heck it is (now) a free basic Office suite with some really neat features. Also Numbers should just open a Excel document like Open Office can open Excel documents ...

[Valentyn]

I'm rather astonished at the amount of miss information and general ignorance here regarding Macs and OS X. 

 

It makes it clear many have never touched OS X, or if they have it doesn't look like more than an hour or so at most.

 

Sadly even Linus' video had some mistakes, but hopefully he'll go into it with a very open mind and give it a real shot. Just like Anand Lal Shimpi did, and  others that were die hard Windows users.

[interslice]

I'm rather astonished at the amount of miss information and general ignorance here regarding Macs and OS X. 

 

It makes it clear many have never touched OS X, or if they have it doesn't look like more than an hour or so at most.

 

Sadly even Linus' video had some mistakes, but hopefully he'll go into it with a very open mind and give it a real shot. Just like Anand Lal Shimpi did, and  others that were die hard Windows users.

to be fair, ive been using osx since there was an osx and there are constantly new things i find. i think the big problem is people assuming things arent possible. unless you have researched the exact thing you're talking about the assumption should always be that its probably an option some where. it seems like 90% of peoples complaints would be fixed with a trip to system preferences.

[Valentyn]

to be fair, ive been using osx since there was an osx and there are constantly new things i find. i think the big problem is people assuming things arent possible. unless you have researched the exact thing you're talking about the assumption should always be that its probably an option some where. it seems like 90% of peoples complaints would be fixed with a trip to system preferences.

 

Quite true, or Google.

 

I myself was a Die Hard Windows user up until late 2012. I appreciate both OSs, and have come to prefer OS X for everything. Including gaming where possible, although I have no qualms booting to Windows for certain things. Both have quirks and things I prefer.

Within 1-2 hours you can use a Mac easily enough, but it'll take about a month to get through the ins and outs and really understand it. That's only if approached with an open mind with the intent of learning though. 

 

One could easily make the case for Linux as well, 1-2 hours to get around the GUI, but it takes a lot more to actually understand the system, how it works, and then get efficient with it.

I find having a knee jerk reaction to something as complex as an Operating System very off putting, especially on a Tech Forum of all places.

 

Many people here want others to justify their reasons for using something. I also don't see the point. Everyone has different wants and needs, and people will always get what's best for them. Usually after weighing up the pros and cons based on what they not only need, but want.

As such someone without detailed experience in both, or having different wants and needs might never be able to even look at it from the other's perspective. It seems that happens a lot in regards to OS X, and Windows, let alone trying to explain Linux to many a normal person.

[DeViLzzz]

No more Apple computer stuff please.  No chance this ever ends up in my home.

[steffen_anywhere]

Why didn't apple send you guys a sample? Did they fear you were going to rip into and not change the minds of the majority of people already watching this channel? Did they want the money? It's one review unit Apple...if anything it's probably bringing good publicity for mac...

 

Apple does not do it...Ever...Deal with it. MKBHD buys all iPhones he reviews, too.

[EdgyVenison]

1.) As I have to deal with several different files at once ranging from text documents to book keeping documents I find it very irritating that I have to constantly go to "All my Files" Tab to search for those individual files some of which I don't even the know the name. On windows I would simply put the files that I need into a labelled folder on the desktop and the ones that I use all the time I would dedicate a specific place on the desktop for it. (the dock on the Mac OS is nice but it cannot fit all the files I need it too, in order to get to it in a timely fashion)

You're doing it wrong. No one finds their files only through "All my Files" menu, that's just retarded.

Just use finder and browse through your files like browsing with explorer with Windows.

Or use spotlight/alfred/quicksilver to find them quickly.

 

2.)When I need to maximize a window I have to click the tiny grey arrows at the left which is simple enough....but when I want to return it to size....I have to scroll my cursor to the top left and wait for the drop down menu to pop and then I can locate the button to return it to size.

If you searched for a bit, you should've found one of these apps.

 

3.) The shortcuts.....If I want to get back to the desktop I don't want to have to remember that I have to use three fingers and swipe it whichever way (Actually its three fingers and thumb making a pinching motion......nvm) or if I want to scroll, I have to use two fingers and move them up and down as opposed to having a wheel on a mouse or clicking the bottom right of the screen.

It's your problem for not wanting to remember the shortcuts. This is like complaining "Why do I have to remember Ctrl+Shift+Esc just to open Task Manager in Windows? Windows is a shit OS!".

It takes time to use shortcuts on everything. You can also configure it to whatever key/gesture you want to; like, peek at desktop with F11 or something.

 

4.) Some of the software I use aren't compatible with the Mac OS but I'm hoping that in the future they will eventually devote time to making all these applications Apple friendly instead of making an Apple only software (God knows its impossible to move to Number from using Excel >_>)

There are quite a number of alternatives out there.

The problems I have with the Mac OS are as follows (Please note these are my personal faults with the OS):

Yep, your own personal faults, laziness, and misunderstandings, not really a problem on the OS.

 

The thing I absolutely hate about Apple is the crap hardware they sell to you....

They may be a bit more expensive, but they are not really "crap". Get your facts correct.

[79wjd]

You're doing it wrong. No one finds their files only through "All my Files" menu, that's just retarded.

 

It's your problem for not wanting to remember the shortcuts. This is like complaining "Why do I have to remember Ctrl+Shift+Esc just to open Task Manager in Windows? Windows is a shit OS!".

 

They may be a bit more expensive, but they are not really "crap". Get your facts correct.

Searching through "all my files" (not spotlight, spotlight finds everything just fine) honestly pisses me off; half the time I do search it doesn't find the file anywhere on my computer, but its clearly there (as I can navigate right to it). 

 

Who uses ctrl shift esc? ctrl alt delete 4lyfe. 

 

I wouldn't even call them more expensive as thats really unfair. If you compare an all-in-one/laptop to a custom desktop, then yes, they're overpriced. But if you compare a Macbook to another ultrabook then pricing is comparable (and presumably an iMac vs. another all in one -- although I pay absolutely no attention to AIOs so I may be wrong).

[NeoZeon]

Also,

 

Anyone using excel for serious work is terribly inefficient. Matlab, SciPy, R, Octave (plenty of free and expensive options) are all significantly better for any serious data crunching. 

 

And yes, I do apply how much I earn when building a computer... about 90% of the computer work I do is for work! Who wouldn't?  

[bossman111]

1) You can add folders to the desktop...you can add individual files to the desktop, you can use spotlight search to search for any files just like windows, you can also tag documents with different tags to make finding them easier

 

You can have tabs in finder, and open multiple finder windows to make moving files around easy.... not sure of your issue?

 

2) Press escape - if a program is in full screen, press escape and it returns to its normal size, there are also keyboard shortcuts to do this if you prefer

 

3) Then you can use keyboard shortcuts to get back to the desktop, or you can use the dock, or you can plug in a mouse with a scroll wheel.... 

 

Honestly the gestures take getting used to, if you dont like them, you can disable those features completely (features like spaces/expose etc can be turned off)

 

4) There is quite a lot of Mac software, you said Excel? well there is Microsoft office for mac, and has been for the last like 10 years. you can also install windows in parallels and open full windows programs within the OSX enviroment

 

 

Just saying, its a different system,  you cannot expect it to work the way you are used to.... imagine if you had used mac for 30 years... and moved to windows, you would have the same amount of complaints about user interface 

 

You are 100% entitled to your opinion, if you dont like the interface and machines, awesome thats a choice you are free to make

 

 

Also... Exhibit A and B are custom desktops... find a windows All in one with that spec, one of the great things people love about the iMac is that its a compact unit, it can sit almost anywhere, there is no tower, there is one cable (if using wifi and the included keyboard/mouse etc) 

 

Anyway

 

Thanks for your reply.

The custom pc I built is actually a micro ATX with a medium sized tower which is small and light weight, but if it is an all in one display that people are looking for then please take a look at this: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/4nJ2Bm

It is much much cheaper and has overall much better components.

 

 

to be fair a decent amount was just wrong info. you can store folders on the desktop. theres no need to use all my files at all. in fact the file management is very very similar to windows. theres (customizable) keyboard shortcuts to full screen an app and take it back out of full screen.

this part is pretty much entirely wrong. you dont have to use 3 finger swipe to switch apps. you can command tab, you can click the icons on the dock, you can use mission control (which also has a gesture and a shortcut, which is customizable). you can use scroll bars to scroll, you can use the magic mouse instead of the trackpad, or just what ever mouse you would use from a pc, scroll wheel and all.

 

this part just doesnt make sense. apple makes numbers. the people who dont make apple apps arent devoting any time to making apple only software. they're two completely separate bodies; apple isnt going to devote time into making pc apps mac compatible. thats probably not even legal in most cases. and also in addition there is a mac version of excel.

 

you make it sound like these are limitations of the OS when in fact you simply havent set it up to use it the way you want.

I'm a relatively new user to Mac and admittedly I had only used it for a little over a month, so not being able to store files on the desktop was definitely a problem on my part, that being said, the shortcuts for mac which are completely customizable as you say, I still have no idea how to customize them to suit me which is really the main difference between the windows and the mac from my perspective. With windows there is no customization needed, I see something that I want to open I left click it, if I want to close the window there's a giant red X at the top right corner which is pretty suggestive (usually the mentality is that if it is red it usually means bad, for example explosive barrels, fire alarms, Stop Signs and for me I usually have figures on my spreadsheet in red to imply that it's a deficit or negative), but even so if I hover my pointer/cursor over the icon/button a help tag pops up saying what it is, which makes it very easy to find out what action a certain button can perform.

Now windows has its own customizable shortcuts as well, but similar to the mac it does require a learning process however I have never needed to customize any shortcuts on windows.

 

How does this not make sense. I am simply hoping that the applications I use on windows can be exported to mac for ease of use, for example excel was made apple-friendly, so I am hoping that other applications that I use may also become apple-friendly in the future. 

Now that being said using excel or numbers on the mac has proven to be difficult for me as I normally have a cost sheet (that I use to calculate employee wages, Manufacturing costs, PriceLists for specific customers, etc,.) which uses several macros that sometimes build on one another. Now when I try to use these on the Mac, it messes everything up and instead of numbers I see things like #VALUE! and get pop up messages saying "We found a problem with this formula...." and to be honest I had tried troubleshooting the error several times but it always ended in me going back to windows....

 

 

The dock is to launch (your most used) and switch between Applications.

You can make a folder on your desktop, the same way you can do in windows. Even better in OS X you can now assign custom lables to your data like "Project XY 2014" and can then easily filter only the files needed for Project XY 2014.

Even better in OS X your desktop isn't cluttered with links to Applications.

 

This also seems to be more like a Windows-Habbit-Problem then OS X fault.

You can assign any shortcuts you like. I don't see how additional gestures are a problem? In fact the implementation of two finger scrolling is one of the best and most intuitive around?! You still can use your mousewheel or klick at the right bottom of the window or use your keyboard.

Apples iWork was never intended to be a full replacement of Micrsoft Office. Heck it is (now) a free basic Office suite with some really neat features. Also Numbers should just open a Excel document like Open Office can open Excel documents ...

 

I normally just pin the most used applications I use on windows 8 to the taskbar which is similar to the dock on mac.

 

I have to disagree with you on the fullscreen action being a "Windows-Habbit-Problem". It took me quite a while to figure out that if you move your cursor/pointer all the way to the top, there is a drop down menu, and in that drop down menu is a blue button with diagonal arrows pointing to each other which when clicked/pressed will revert from full screen... That is not straight forward at all....On Windows, there are three buttons on every window(or open file/browser/any application in general) and if you put your cursor over them for a very brief amount of time a help tag pops up indicating what the button does which is very convenient for the non-tech savvy user.

 

As I replied to interslice, yes you can customize shortcuts for the Mac, however it is not a straight-forward process and the same can be said for customizing Windows shortcuts, however when using Windows in default mode, there is no need for customizable shortcuts as everything the average user needs is a click or two away (example, need to minimize/maximize/close is all one click in the top right corner of the window or if you need to scroll on a page you can use the arrow bar on the left, these are default settings on windows), whereas with Mac default you must know all the finger gestures or you must know how to customize it yourself which is from my perspective a little frustrating and very time-consuming.

 

Again as I replied to interslice, yes both iWork Numbers and Excel on Mac can open spreadsheets however these programs are not applicable to me as they do not work when I am trying to open my cost sheets however if I open it on my personal windows pc or any other windows pc that has Excel installed then it seems to work fine(Now this being said I've only tested these cost sheets on the workstations I have at work, my cousins pc and my brothers pc which all ran Windows 8 and had Excel on it)  but otherwise it is just too much work to have to re-do all the macros and formulas on Excel on a Mac (I've been using these costs sheets for about 10 years).

 

 

You're doing it wrong. No one finds their files only through "All my Files" menu, that's just retarded.

Just use finder and browse through your files like browsing with explorer with Windows.

Or use spotlight/alfred/quicksilver to find them quickly.

 

If you searched for a bit, you should've found one of these apps.

 

It's your problem for not wanting to remember the shortcuts. This is like complaining "Why do I have to remember Ctrl+Shift+Esc just to open Task Manager in Windows? Windows is a shit OS!".

It takes time to use shortcuts on everything. You can also configure it to whatever key/gesture you want to; like, peek at desktop with F11 or something.

 

There are quite a number of alternatives out there.

Yep, your own personal faults, laziness, and misunderstandings, not really a problem on the OS.

 

They may be a bit more expensive, but they are not really "crap". Get your facts correct.

 

As I said before I had only used a mac for about a month and had never quite figured out how else to store files.

 

It is not that I don't "want" to remember, it's just that if I want to move a window around I don't want to have to remember to use three fingers to select and then hold the window and then I can move it or to right click or bring up the options menu for something I don't want to have to remember to use two fingers and tap.... And yes as both Interslice and ShadowCaptain have pointed out before, I now know that you can customize this so that it is easier to use on the Mac but my point is I never had to customize anything as simple as moving a window around or having the ability to scroll or even having the ability to highlight and drag items on windows 8 as it is very straight forward to use. Just point and click...only needs one finger....

Having to remember all these gestures is similar to this:

 

Also yes the parts apple uses in their products are in fact very outdated and inefficient. Take a look at this pc: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/4nJ2Bm

Its cheaper and all in one AND its MUCH more efficient as well as having more memory.

[EdgyVenison]

Thanks for your reply.

The custom pc I built is actually a micro ATX with a medium sized tower which is small and light weight, but if it is an all in one display that people are looking for then please take a look at this: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/4nJ2Bm

It is much much cheaper and has overall much better components.

 

 

I'm a relatively new user to Mac and admittedly I had only used it for a little over a month, so not being able to store files on the desktop was definitely a problem on my part, that being said, the shortcuts for mac which are completely customizable as you say, I still have no idea how to customize them to suit me which is really the main difference between the windows and the mac from my perspective. With windows there is no customization needed, I see something that I want to open I left click it, if I want to close the window there's a giant red X at the top right corner which is pretty suggestive (usually the mentality is that if it is red it usually means bad, for example explosive barrels, fire alarms, Stop Signs and for me I usually have figures on my spreadsheet in red to imply that it's a deficit or negative), but even so if I hover my pointer/cursor over the icon/button a help tag pops up saying what it is, which makes it very easy to find out what action a certain button can perform.

Now windows has its own customizable shortcuts as well, but similar to the mac it does require a learning process however I have never needed to customize any shortcuts on windows.

 

How does this not make sense. I am simply hoping that the applications I use on windows can be exported to mac for ease of use, for example excel was made apple-friendly, so I am hoping that other applications that I use may also become apple-friendly in the future. 

Now that being said using excel or numbers on the mac has proven to be difficult for me as I normally have a cost sheet (that I use to calculate employee wages, Manufacturing costs, PriceLists for specific customers, etc,.) which uses several macros that sometimes build on one another. Now when I try to use these on the Mac, it messes everything up and instead of numbers I see things like #VALUE! and get pop up messages saying "We found a problem with this formula...." and to be honest I had tried troubleshooting the error several times but it always ended in me going back to windows....

 

 

 

I normally just pin the most used applications I use on windows 8 to the taskbar which is similar to the dock on mac.

 

I have to disagree with you on the fullscreen action being a "Windows-Habbit-Problem". It took me quite a while to figure out that if you move your cursor/pointer all the way to the top, there is a drop down menu, and in that drop down menu is a blue button with diagonal arrows pointing to each other which when clicked/pressed will revert from full screen... That is not straight forward at all....On Windows, there are three buttons on every window(or open file/browser/any application in general) and if you put your cursor over them for a very brief amount of time a help tag pops up indicating what the button does which is very convenient for the non-tech savvy user.

 

As I replied to interslice, yes you can customize shortcuts for the Mac, however it is not a straight-forward process and the same can be said for customizing Windows shortcuts, however when using Windows in default mode, there is no need for customizable shortcuts as everything the average user needs is a click or two away (example, need to minimize/maximize/close is all one click in the top right corner of the window or if you need to scroll on a page you can use the arrow bar on the left, these are default settings on windows), whereas with Mac default you must know all the finger gestures or you must know how to customize it yourself which is from my perspective a little frustrating and very time-consuming.

 

Again as I replied to interslice, yes both iWork Numbers and Excel on Mac can open spreadsheets however these programs are not applicable to me as they do not work when I am trying to open my cost sheets however if I open it on my personal windows pc or any other windows pc that has Excel installed then it seems to work fine(Now this being said I've only tested these cost sheets on the workstations I have at work, my cousins pc and my brothers pc which all ran Windows 8 and had Excel on it)  but otherwise it is just too much work to have to re-do all the macros and formulas on Excel on a Mac (I've been using these costs sheets for about 10 years).

 

 

 

As I said before I had only used a mac for about a month and had never quite figured out how else to store files.

 

It is not that I don't "want" to remember, it's just that if I want to move a window around I don't want to have to remember to use three fingers to select and then hold the window and then I can move it or to right click or bring up the options menu for something I don't want to have to remember to use two fingers and tap.... And yes as both Interslice and ShadowCaptain have pointed out before, I now know that you can customize this so that it is easier to use on the Mac but my point is I never had to customize anything as simple as moving a window around or having the ability to scroll or even having the ability to highlight and drag items on windows 8 as it is very straight forward to use. Just point and click...only needs one finger....

Having to remember all these gestures is similar to this:

 

Also yes the parts apple uses in their products are in fact very outdated and inefficient. Take a look at this pc: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/4nJ2Bm

Its cheaper and all in one AND its MUCH more efficient as well as having more memory.

Windows is Windows. OSX is OSX. Stop using OSX as if it is Windows.

You're just lazy and not giving enough effort to learn and adapt.

[bossman111]

Windows is Windows. OSX is OSX. Stop using OSX as if it is Windows.

You're just lazy and not giving enough effort to learn and adapt.

Windows is easy to use, OSX is complicated and unnecessary, so yes I have stopped using OSX after giving it about a month.

[Sousuke]

Windows is easy to use, OSX is complicated and unnecessary, so yes I have stopped using OSX after giving it about a month.

 

Sorry but ... what?

 

Mac OS X ... Complicated? Are you sure you tried OSX not Linux? 

[bossman111]

Sorry but ... what?

 

Mac OS X ... Complicated? Are you sure you tried OSX not Linux? 

Well I tried to use the Mac Book for about a month and utterly failed at doing so. I had to send my Sager Clevo to RMA as it fell and a few of the components broke....But anyways my point is that its interface is really difficult to use unless you know how, and I'm quite sure once you understand it, you may be able to better use it. For example, if I want to multi task and have multiple windows up at the same time I need to use 3 fingers to grab each window and move them where I need to which is just....unnecessary. On windows 8 to quote Lord of The Rings One finger to rule them all 

[interslice]

Thanks for your reply.

The custom pc I built is actually a micro ATX with a medium sized tower which is small and light weight, but if it is an all in one display that people are looking for then please take a look at this: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/4nJ2Bm

It is much much cheaper and has overall much better components.

 

 

I'm a relatively new user to Mac and admittedly I had only used it for a little over a month, so not being able to store files on the desktop was definitely a problem on my part, that being said, the shortcuts for mac which are completely customizable as you say, I still have no idea how to customize them to suit me which is really the main difference between the windows and the mac from my perspective. With windows there is no customization needed, I see something that I want to open I left click it, if I want to close the window there's a giant red X at the top right corner which is pretty suggestive (usually the mentality is that if it is red it usually means bad, for example explosive barrels, fire alarms, Stop Signs and for me I usually have figures on my spreadsheet in red to imply that it's a deficit or negative), but even so if I hover my pointer/cursor over the icon/button a help tag pops up saying what it is, which makes it very easy to find out what action a certain button can perform.

Now windows has its own customizable shortcuts as well, but similar to the mac it does require a learning process however I have never needed to customize any shortcuts on windows.

 

How does this not make sense. I am simply hoping that the applications I use on windows can be exported to mac for ease of use, for example excel was made apple-friendly, so I am hoping that other applications that I use may also become apple-friendly in the future. 

Now that being said using excel or numbers on the mac has proven to be difficult for me as I normally have a cost sheet (that I use to calculate employee wages, Manufacturing costs, PriceLists for specific customers, etc,.) which uses several macros that sometimes build on one another. Now when I try to use these on the Mac, it messes everything up and instead of numbers I see things like #VALUE! and get pop up messages saying "We found a problem with this formula...." and to be honest I had tried troubleshooting the error several times but it always ended in me going back to windows....

 

 

 

I normally just pin the most used applications I use on windows 8 to the taskbar which is similar to the dock on mac.

 

I have to disagree with you on the fullscreen action being a "Windows-Habbit-Problem". It took me quite a while to figure out that if you move your cursor/pointer all the way to the top, there is a drop down menu, and in that drop down menu is a blue button with diagonal arrows pointing to each other which when clicked/pressed will revert from full screen... That is not straight forward at all....On Windows, there are three buttons on every window(or open file/browser/any application in general) and if you put your cursor over them for a very brief amount of time a help tag pops up indicating what the button does which is very convenient for the non-tech savvy user.

 

As I replied to interslice, yes you can customize shortcuts for the Mac, however it is not a straight-forward process and the same can be said for customizing Windows shortcuts, however when using Windows in default mode, there is no need for customizable shortcuts as everything the average user needs is a click or two away (example, need to minimize/maximize/close is all one click in the top right corner of the window or if you need to scroll on a page you can use the arrow bar on the left, these are default settings on windows), whereas with Mac default you must know all the finger gestures or you must know how to customize it yourself which is from my perspective a little frustrating and very time-consuming.

 

Again as I replied to interslice, yes both iWork Numbers and Excel on Mac can open spreadsheets however these programs are not applicable to me as they do not work when I am trying to open my cost sheets however if I open it on my personal windows pc or any other windows pc that has Excel installed then it seems to work fine(Now this being said I've only tested these cost sheets on the workstations I have at work, my cousins pc and my brothers pc which all ran Windows 8 and had Excel on it)  but otherwise it is just too much work to have to re-do all the macros and formulas on Excel on a Mac (I've been using these costs sheets for about 10 years).

 

 

 

As I said before I had only used a mac for about a month and had never quite figured out how else to store files.

 

It is not that I don't "want" to remember, it's just that if I want to move a window around I don't want to have to remember to use three fingers to select and then hold the window and then I can move it or to right click or bring up the options menu for something I don't want to have to remember to use two fingers and tap.... And yes as both Interslice and ShadowCaptain have pointed out before, I now know that you can customize this so that it is easier to use on the Mac but my point is I never had to customize anything as simple as moving a window around or having the ability to scroll or even having the ability to highlight and drag items on windows 8 as it is very straight forward to use. Just point and click...only needs one finger....

Having to remember all these gestures is similar to this:

 

Also yes the parts apple uses in their products are in fact very outdated and inefficient. Take a look at this pc: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/4nJ2Bm

Its cheaper and all in one AND its MUCH more efficient as well as having more memory.

 

i want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but its clear you have never truly given osx a chance. you cant simply expect everything about the ui to be identical when switching from windows to osx. even a cursory look in system preferences or half an hour googling would have resolved every single issue you're talking about. furthermore a decent amount of it is literally almost identical. osx has the 3 color coded buttons on the top of the window. osx has almost identical file management (better in some ways) as windows. moving windows is literally identical. the list goes on. with the exception of incompatible apps you havent even mentioned any of the actual differences in osx.

 

your preconceptions are throwing off your analysis. windows is no more intuitive (and dare i say less intuitive) than osx, but you're simply comparing how "simple" something is based on what you already know how do to. if you had never used either the windows shortcuts would be just as confusing.

 

due the the fact that you're on this forum i am assuming that you arent as inept as you're coming off, therefore i must conclude that there is no way you used osx in any significant way for "a month". if you use osx for a month and you dont know how files work (especially when is almost IDENTICAL to windows), and you dont know that windows have the same 3 buttons on the top (granted its on top left not the top right- i know, super confusing /s) you are not using osx significantly.

 

Also yes the parts apple uses in their products are in fact very outdated and inefficient.

 

and this is just straight bullshit. apple does charge more money because they spend more on design, on support and because they give you a machine fully built that requires no tinkering of any sort (just werks). and yeah then theres the apple tax™ which has been getting better for a lot of apple machines to the point that most of them are decent buys (mba, mbpr, 5k imac, etc) but the parts they use are neither outdated nor "inefficient" compared to pc parts. that is just nonsense (the exception is right after a new product like a cpu comes out before apple integrates it in the next refresh of the line). apple has in some cases had things like nex gen cpus BEFORE the general pc market. so no, i dont agree.