Would you stop pirating if content did not cost too much?

[Vic9mm]

PS: Also punching a kid for being proud to have downloaded something illegally is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard anybody do, if that is even true.

Yeah I bet he wouldn't do that to a kid who could fight back. People like him go after the easy targets that way he can look cool in front of his friends.

[Legend932]

I think pirating is wrong, you're getting to experience content that wasn't intended to be free, without paying the rightful owners what they deserve, of course it's wrong, that said I do think that there is value in archiving and storing software somewhere.

 

I only pirate movies and tv shows, and not that often. Because I can't get them here, I can't use Netflix or HBO or any of that cool stuff :<

[panfriedpuppies]

I love ripping copies of games/movies/music for a few reasons.

 

1. If I like it, I'll pay

2. If I bought a game for the PS3, why would I buy it twice for my PC? Or vice-versa. Same with any movies I've ever bought a hard copy of.

3. Sometimes distributors don't make things available for me to buy, I'm not waiting for them.

[legodude]

It really does depend, I Pay for most games (older games that are out of production and not on steam like the old IL-2 games or halo 1 I'll download) I pay for music I really like (I'll only buy CD's I don't like Itunes)

 

I'm a massive fan of anime... I buy as much as I can however it's hard getting a lot of shows in the UK and when you do it's stupidly expensive so I download a lot of anime. 

[Mac]

Mainly TV that's in America as we usually have to wait months for it to come to the UK.

 

I usually download films because it's a lot quicker to go out and buy it, and so I don't waste money of a terrible film.

 

As for games, I very rarely do it, and it's usually to only try it out and then I will buy it.

[denestmor3]

I usually download my films and games but if I like the game very much, I buy it after I have tried it, also the most games I play for one or 2 hours and then I don't play it anymore, sometimes I do play a game longer but I do not like it that much that I buy it. And I pirate a lot of music because of that I want then in 24-bit FLAC and that is only available if you pirate, when you buy it it is very expensive (blue ray disk).

[gasho]

mostly I download movies or games to check them out. the ones that I like I buy or go to the cinema like I did just the other day with the new superman.

 

But I have to say I have Battlefield 3 that I bought and I would rather uninstall it and get the pirated one to play carrier mode because with the original until I'm playing the game 20 minutes go by because of all the updates all the time.. I Mostly play offline...

[yuh25]

I used to torrent alot, because I had no money. Now that I have a job I don't do it any more. And because I'm a uni student I get a few discounts on software or get it for free that I need(Office 365 and Visual studio 2012).

Only bad thing about on-campus at uni is you get in trouble for downloading Linux and other free stuff through torrenting >.>

[Toby]

I'm talking more about business software that fits a need for business and less about creative works like music.  Music largely has changed to support the internet environment.  If I want to listen to something it's always readily available on youtube.  More and more smaller artists are making their stuff downloadable DRM free for a nominal cost or pay what you want.  This is awesome.  I don't buy CDs from the two big media companies anymore, and don't really listen to mainstream music either.  I don't support their current business model and won't until they get with the times.

 

Commercial products should definitely be paid for.  Why do people need (note need, not want) commercial production software at home to dink around with?  Free ones like GIMP are good alternatives, and free!  Because it's on the internet or because I want to use it seem like really crappy and flimsy answers.

 

(Hasn't adobe released a $100 photoshop or something recently?  That's finally responding to a market need)

 

Well now you're defeating your own point. Even if we were to accept that piracy is damaging in the case of content that would otherwise have been bought, commercial production software is among the least likely to have otherwise been purchased.

 

And so we return to my initial two scenarios with Photoshop. People don't need it, but there's no good reason not to get it. By just going without, not only does the pirate lose out, but so does Adobe.

 

Adobe may have released something like that, but $100 is still more value than most would get out of it and people tend not to like paying for stripped-down or "lesser" versions of things when the full version is free. Again, it'd be a good idea for the physical world and we see similar pricing plans for lots of other physical world products, but on the internet it's got the same flaws as the payment system it's a part of.

 

At the end of the day, you can't get around the fact that the problem is a broken system. It works in the physical world because people have no other choice, but on the internet it's powerless and basically whines at people. "Please participate in my overly rigid framework, pretty please? You know you want to. I'm the only "right" thing to do"...When it's so optional, it can't afford to be as rigid as it is. It's clumsy. It's like trying to eat by pounding your food with your fist and then licking your hand. It needs to be more dextrous, it needs to be more elegant and it needs to be cleverer.

[rashdanml]

Edit: Put simply, piracy isn't the problem, but simply the inevitable result of the internet + a broken payment system.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114391-Valves-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem

 That's exactly it.

[Tr33]

its for n00bs who aint got dem m0n3y. :P

[Yoinkerman]

I didn't know "because it's wrong to take what isn't yours" isn't considered a good reason.

Well now you're defeating your own point. Even if we were to accept that piracy is damaging in the case of content that would otherwise have been bought, commercial production software is among the least likely to have otherwise been purchased.

And so we return to my initial two scenarios with Photoshop. People don't need it, but there's no good reason not to get it. By just going without, not only does the pirate lose out, but so does Adobe.

Adobe may have released something like that, but $100 is still more value than most would get out of it and people tend not to like paying for stripped-down or "lesser" versions of things when the full version is free. Again, it'd be a good idea for the physical world and we see similar pricing plans for lots of other physical world products, but on the internet it's got the same flaws as the payment system it's a part of.

At the end of the day, you can't get around the fact that the problem is a broken system. It works in the physical world because people have no other choice, but on the internet it's powerless and basically whines at people. "Please participate in my overly rigid framework, pretty please? You know you want to. I'm the only "right" thing to do"...When it's so optional, it can't afford to be as rigid as it is. It's clumsy. It's like trying to eat by pounding your food with your fist and then licking your hand. It needs to be more dextrous, it needs to be more elegant and it needs to be cleverer.

[Toby]

I didn't know "because it's wrong to take what isn't yours" isn't considered a good reason.

No one's taking anything, they're duplicating it. In the physical world it's wrong to take what isn't yours because whoever you take it from won't have it anymore - there's a loss involved. That doesn't apply in this instance.

To think, I'm giving you a scenario where no one benefits and a scenario where both parties benefit, and you're saying the one where they both benefit is worse...If that doesn't demonstrate how broken the current system is, I don't know what does.

[Yoinkerman]

How is the unauthorized use of someone else's IP not taking anything? Do you not value IP? Is the information contained in a book worthless to you?

The medium of IP isn't important. The content is.

Unless you think only tangible things have value and the concept of IP is bunk. Then you absolutely have a point. Is this what you believe?

[Toby]

I don't think you're using the right words to reflect what you mean. If you take someone's IP, they wouldn't have it anymore. If by taking Photoshop, Adobe no longer had Photoshop, I'd agree, piracy would be unforgivable.

However, I don't think you mean take. I think you mean obtain. In which case, I'd tell you to stop going around the same circle over and over again, because I imagine your points about the unauthorized use of IP and the value of IP is heading towards "people deserve to be paid for their IP".

(*) At that point, I'd remind you we aren't talking about people who would pay for that IP, which would lead to you asking why people feel they "need" that IP, which would lead to me repeating my point about pirating an IP being more beneficial to the IP holder than not pirating (or buying) it, to which you reply that it's still wrong, then when I ask why, you say because IP has value and lead into a point about how people should be paid for their IP...Return to (*)

Unless your point about the value of IP isn't heading towards "people deserve to be paid for their IP" (which I haven't argued with, or suggested otherwise), then I'd love to know what else about the value of IP makes piracy "wrong".

[Yoinkerman]

From a standpoint of IP having value, I don't see how "I wasn't going to obtain authorization to use it anyway" makes it OK to use it.

 

I don't see how the medium allowing for copies being made changes this.

 

I don't see how a poor payment system changes this.

 

I don't see how a mutually(sort of but extremely lopsided) beneficial unauthorized use changes this.

 

Unless you come from a standpoint where you don't value someone else's IP.  Then it makes lots of sense.

[Joshua]

hence why I PIRATE THEM

muahahahahhahahhaahhah

 

Different font...do...do I smell a hipster?

[FireFox]

Different font...do...do I smell a hipster?

 

That is an extraordinary sense of smell behind that screen, you have a gift lol

[Joshua]

That is an extraordinary sense of smell behind that screen, you have a gift lol

 

Yeah, I got an IPS monitor. In-Plane Sniffing.

[Matsy]

I download illegally basically every day, may that be a movie or a tv-show or even a game that caught my eye.

Just finished downloading the new deadpool game, its pretty fun for what it is and I will be buying it.

I will buy games I download IF they are good, I use the pirated copy as a DEMO to find out if I like the game or not, I'm not going to fork over money for something I may not enjoy, I will not pay for movies and tv-shows however, too expensive for how much you get out them.  I have bought a few of them because I'm a big fan of them (doctor who (own all of them), star trek etc)

Software on the other hand is a different story, I haven't bought any software for like...I can't even remember when, all my software including my OS is pirated, software is way too expensive, I have a legit copy of windows 7 (a student copy that I got on offer years ago for like £10) but its on disc and the key only works with that disc, but its easier to use a memory stick to install the OS (which is a pirated copy) (I re-install every 6months odd) than using the disc.  I own a copy of windows 7 regardless so I see no issue.

 

Anyway piracy is bad yes, but I don't really care at this point in time.

[FireFox]

Yeah, I got an IPS monitor. In-Plane Sniffing.

 

Sounds kinda messed up right there :P

[cafe]

Different font...do...do I smell a hipster?

uhh think what you like?

 

[Omnificent]

I buy all my games and software, but download all of my TV and films. I pay for my music through Spotify. I cant find anywhere that sells high quality digital films for a reasonable price. The people that are against it are more of a problem to society than the people who download things illegally.

 

I download about 3TB a month at home.

 

I think a lot of the children here will pirate games, software, music and video because they cant afford to buy it. I did the same until I was around 16.

 

So you are saying that you could really truly afford games at age 16. You must have had a hell of a job.

[Toby]

From a standpoint of IP having value, I don't see how "I wasn't going to obtain authorization to use it anyway" makes it OK to use it.

 

Because the alternative is worse. When the prospect of buying it is non-existent, then not pirating it and instead choosing to go without is actively doing a disservice to the IP holder. You are fulfilling that IP's value more by pirating it than by not having it at all. Obviously pirating it isn't contributing as much as actually buying it, but it's contributing more than going without. Do you not agree that it's insane that the scenario that's more beneficial to the IP holder is considered "wrong" while the scenario that's the least beneficial to the IP holder is considered "right"?

 

 

I don't see how the medium allowing for copies being made changes this.

 

Because it means that the practical reality is that everything's available for free and thus everyone has the choice of going with the free one if they disagree with the value of the "paid" one. In real life this wouldn't be possible without the IP holder suffering a loss, but on the internet it's far less damaging to the IP holder and potentially beneficial. This doesn't have so much to do with the ethics of what you quoted, but more to do with the flaws of the "paid" system (the "paid" system not simply being a system where the IP holder gets paid, but specifically the system whereby the IP holder/vendor sets the price and expects people to pay it or go without).

 

 

I don't see how a poor payment system changes this.

 

A poor payment system has no baring on what you quoted, but instead results in IP holders not earning the money they deserve for their work in a medium where the practical reality is that everything's available for free.

 

 

I don't see how a mutually(sort of but extremely lopsided) beneficial unauthorized use changes this.

 

Because again, the alternative isn't beneficial at all, but I've already addressed this in the first paragraph.

 

 

Unless you come from a standpoint where you don't value someone else's IP.  Then it makes lots of sense.

 

All this time you've been saying value, I suspect you haven't meant value in general, but monetary value...specifically the value the IP owner has set it at. Either way...

 

I may or may not value their IP (it depends on the IP), but the issue is whether the value I see in said IP is as much as the monetary value they've set it at. If it isn't, then regardless of the value that I see in it, I only have the option of pirating it (or going without, but as I've said, that would do a disservice to the IP holders). This is the problem with the "paid" system I defined further up...There are masses of people who would pay for the value that they see in various IPs, but they aren't able to pay for it...the "paid" system doesn't allow it.

 

Your standpoint is that IP has value, IP holders deserve to get paid and that piracy stops that happening. That's incorrect. The truth is that IP has value, IP holders deserve to get paid that the "paid" system stops that from happening. You will never stop piracy, because it's essentially just the internet doing what the internet was made to do, but you can change the payment system to one that allows IP holders to receive the monetary value that their IP deserves...Maybe not the monetary value that the IP holder sees in it, but the monetary value that the people who value it see in it.

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

 

I buy all my games and software, but download all of my TV and films. I pay for my music through Spotify. I cant find anywhere that sells high quality digital films for a reasonable price. The people that are against it are more of a problem to society than the people who download things illegally.

 

I download about 3TB a month at home.

 

I think a lot of the children here will pirate games, software, music and video because they cant afford to buy it. I did the same until I was around 16.

 

So you are saying that you could really truly afford games at age 16. You must have had a hell of a job.

 

 

Any minimum wage part time job will pay enough for you to afford games.