Why isn't there a section for MAC?

[Ursad0n]

To be honest, Apple makes good computers, it's just that the simplicity, lack of access and lack of availability of any enthusiast-grade parts along with the extravagant prices they charge are things that turn people like us off from them. I mean, when is the last time anyone saw an actual gaming-grade graphics card on a Mac?

I can, will and often do rant and rave for days about the disadvantages of Macs, but I can do the same for any number of prebuilt home PCs, those actually piss me off more than macs. At least macs for the most part are built well. HP makes horrible tin plastic cans of second-rate trash, and so does Gateway-- [sacrifices a pig to Linus as penance for uttering the GW word]

 

Don't get me wrong, I still hate Apple, but I hate other things a lot more. For the avoidance of doubt, I will list the advantages and disadvantages of macs.

Advantages:

Most user-friendly OS ever -- Using OSX is a pleasant experience to say the least, at least when I'm not feeling... hacky.

Aesthetically pleasing to a fault -- All macs look sick, with the exception of the Mac Pro, which looks like a coke zero can.

High-quality parts -- only the best.

Solid build quality -- everyone knows Macbooks are tanks.

Good customer service -- our iMac has suffered two hard drive failures and a motherboard death. We haven't had to pay a cent for their repair under that protection plan thingy.

 

Disadvantages:

Borderline non-upgradeable -- most people have it done for them, and more often than not the people who do upgrade it themselves are PC enthusiasts.

Operating system is nice, but is also extremely resource-heavy. All those shiny graphical effects on Intel HD graphics? It really bogs things down.

Expensive -- seriously, I will bet you anywhere that for the price that you paid for your Mac, I can find parts for and build a machine that looks better and is several times more powerful, perhaps even two of them.

Underpowered -- It doesn't matter how much better your dual-core haswell i5 Macbook Air is in single-threads, my two-year-old A10 will crush it in multiple threads and lay waste to even the HD5000 graphics on an i7 without breaking a sweat. Don't believe me? let's have a go, I have done this before.

Poor cooling -- Apple insists on making all but their most powerful computers passively cooled, effectively relying on the aluminium shell to spread the heat. Bad idea.

 

If Macs had the option of a high-end dGPU, more of us would be able to justify the cost, but with GPU prices the way they are it makes much more sense to just buy a graphics card and stick it in our PC.

In the end, to answer your question of why there isn't a Mac section... This is a tech forum, full of computer enthusiasts who all share a passion for building computers that are more powerful than anything sold on the consumer market, and it's not all we talk about, either. There are lots of other tech-related things that we talk about for hours and hours, easily. Macs don't really have a place here. They are simply nicely-built and expensive consumer products for the... well I was going to say normal people, but let's be straight with one another -- the filthy casuals who want a simple, easy to use computer that only lets them do what they need to do because that's all they need to do. There's not really a whole lot else to talk about macs. We on the other hand do not like being restricted in what we can do with computers. We like to overclock everything and do everything we can to squeeze as much performance out of our brain children as we can because we can. A lot of us are also gamers. You can easily game on a PC, you can't do that on a Mac, there's just no hardware for it. Computers are our hobby. Macs... stop us from doing our hobby. That's all there is to it, really.

 

"Borderline non-upgradeable -- most people have it done for them, and more often than not the people who do upgrade it themselves are PC enthusiasts." I don't know about you but there are terribly few people I've ever met that needed to upgrade their laptop and many laptops you'll have a bitch of a time doing it no matter what.

 

People go over this time and time again but the pricing for a similarly built high end laptop is nowhere near as bad as everyone makes it out to be, and 

 

"Expensive -- seriously, I will bet you anywhere that for the price that you paid for your Mac, I can find parts for and build a machine that looks better and is several times more powerful, perhaps even two of them."

 

I really hate the argument that you could just as well buy a graphics card for your desktop, or that you could buy a desktop instead. Who buys a rMBP because they need a desktop, nobody, this is a terrible argument and completely avoids the true discussion. If you want to argue against getting an apple laptop then do it, but don't use the argument that a desktop would be cheaper. Price to performance for desktops will always be better than laptops and it's a stupid point to bring up in a discussion about laptops. Not to mention that everyone that makes this argument sidesteps the fact that many people have a desktop PC and need a solid, well built, high resale value machine that's lightweight for use on the go at school or work and when at home has the ability to plug into three external monitors if you need to do work on it, any windows processes on the go can be done on a virtual machine or dual boot. 

 

"Poor cooling -- Apple insists on making all but their most powerful computers passively cooled, effectively relying on the aluminium shell to spread the heat. Bad idea."

Welcome to laptops.

 

My last major point is when you can get Final Cut Pro on a PC let me know but there are a LOT of applications that apple computers are great for and discounting them for completely irrelevant reasons is stupid. 

 

 

If you want to attack Apple's desktop line then fine I think for average personal use that's fair and many of the people using them have a lot of money or are using them for design, video editing, graphics, audio, etc. But discounting them as a company because of that is stupid. It's not a fair argument and you're attacking things that are just as valid against ANY laptops at all. Find me a laptop that I can't (to quote you) "find parts for and build a machine that looks better and is several times more powerful, perhaps even two of them."

[Wardy98]

I own a Macbook Pro Retina 15" and have owned a McBook Pro for the past 5-6 years.

 

Mac OS X isn't resource heavy. Apple proved with the Mavericks release that the latest version of Safari uses less resources than Google Chrome, Firefox and Internet Explorer. They also showed how installing Mavericks from Mountain Lion can increase your battery-life due to software features because less processes occur in the background and apps temporarily shut down if they're not directly being used by the user therefore how can the OS be resource heavy? I personally saw an increase in battery-life when upgrading to Mavericks from Mountain Lion.

 

Regarding being underpowered, how so? If a Mac was underpowered then why would Apple sell it and why would people buy it? It's not about how powerful your hardware is, it's about how it's utilised. Other processors may crush the ones Apple uses in benchmarks etc but Mac OS X is optimised for the processors they use so they don't need more powerful processors. 

 

I am not trying to say Apple computers are superior to PC's because both have their advantages and disadvantages. I thought i'd share my first-hand experience with my MacBook in relation to this thread

[rashdanml]

There is reason to like a mac - they have very nice build quality and very high ease of use, while their OS is not for me I have suggested them to specific people many times... a macbook pro retina dual booting windows and linux would be my favorite laptop... blind hatred of mac doesn't help anything

Why spend that much money on hardware just to void the warranty? There are other less expensive and equally durable laptops out there that can achieve the same dual boot. 

[Wardy98]

Why spend that much money on hardware just to void the warranty? There are other less expensive and equally durable laptops out there that can achieve the same dual boot. 

Dual booting doesn't void the warranty. There's a program within Mac OS that allows you to create a partition on your storage drive to install another OS such as windows

[Chillstice]

[GrmanRodriguez]

OH MY GOD THE THREAD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR MAC VS PC WARS WHAT IS THIS I DONT EVEN

[rashdanml]

Dual booting doesn't void the warranty. There's a program within Mac OS that allows you to create a partition on your storage drive to install another OS such as windows

Except what Slick suggests is removing OS X completely (unless he meant a triple boot, but most laptop harddrives will start to get really cramped if you do that), which most likely voids the warranty. 

[thekeemo]

because they dont deserve one

[Goddard]

Just so everyone knows PC is an abbreviation that stands for Personal Computer.

[Slick]

Except what Slick suggests is removing OS X completely (unless he meant a triple boot, but most laptop harddrives will start to get really cramped if you do that), which most likely voids the warranty. 

Wasn't the point...

 

The point was that their build quality is very high and therefore desirable... honestly I void the warranty on pretty much everything I touch - I haven't even looked at the warranty of an electronics product I've purchased in YEARS because I know I'm going to void it... Dude I build a mineral oil cooled computer...

 

Please stop ignoring the point. The point is they are well made in all aspects, hardware and software - just because the OS may not be for you doesn't mean its bad... it means its a bad fit for you

[GrandBandit]

Constant blind hatred for apple products only hurts your credibility. You people are far too predictable.

[Henry]

Wasn't the point...

 

The point was that their build quality is very high and therefore desirable... honestly I void the warranty on pretty much everything I touch - I haven't even looked at the warranty of an electronics product I've purchased in YEARS because I know I'm going to void it... Dude I build a mineral oil cooled computer...

 

Please stop ignoring the point. The point is they are well made in all aspects, hardware and software - just because the OS may not be for you doesn't mean its bad... it means its a bad fit for you

Don't forget the hardware is nice for the price. Premium hardware, premium price. Dat pcie ssd doe..

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12wz_1Y0aK6FZJUBb24xqT-dgQrN-XydvouAxXXbA8PU/edit

[Leonard]

Because then the LTT forum would become LAME LAME LAME!

 

MACs...HA!......GAYYYYYYYY!

[The Gaige]

 

Please stop ignoring the point. The point is they are well made in all aspects, hardware and software - just because the OS may not be for you doesn't mean its bad... it means its a bad fit for you

 

 

The best thing I read in this thread!

 

BTW, I love my Win 8.1 pro!

[SuperfastJellyfish]

Then don't buy them. I'm not trying to make you buy one... I have never owned an Apple product other than ear pods which were given to me for free(no, not even an old school ipod... I had a Creative Zen). Apple is a leader in build quality and they have shown more than once that many companies(in certain sectors) will be happy to produce sub-par products unless there is a quality front runner. Competition is good!

 

Then there are the people that simply want Mac OS - Again... this is not for either of us - but there are people out there that like the feel, the design, the hand holding style, etc... it doesn't matter if you can't justify it for yourself, it's not for you

 

I could go on but I hope you are able to understand at this point and I'd rather get back to other things

 

I'm very surprised that someone who likes Linux so much cannot appreciate OSX.

 

Let's be realistic - literally the only advantage of using Windows is gaming support, and Windows has a pretty worrying trajectory if you ask me.

[rashdanml]

Wasn't the point...

 

The point was that their build quality is very high and therefore desirable... honestly I void the warranty on pretty much everything I touch - I haven't even looked at the warranty of an electronics product I've purchased in YEARS because I know I'm going to void it... Dude I build a mineral oil cooled computer...

 

Please stop ignoring the point. The point is they are well made in all aspects, hardware and software - just because the OS may not be for you doesn't mean its bad... it means its a bad fit for you

Oh, I'm not saying they're not well made. I'm saying there are equally well made laptops for less (which was my original point to begin with). 

[Ursad0n]

Oh, I'm not saying they're not well made. I'm saying there are equally well made laptops for less (which was my original point to begin with). 

I see people say this all the time and they neglect to ever name any

[Guest]

Because this forum is unfairly biased. Though, it's based off building PCs from scratch, so it makes sense

 

Also, Macs are PCs. Sure, there will be different types of questions, but it's all under the umbrella of desktops/laptops.

[Norman_the_Owl]

"Operating Systems and Software" - open to anything

 

"Mobile Devices" - open to anything

Except immobile devices

[Guest]

I see people say this all the time and they neglect to ever name any

When you find laptops on par with MacBooks- the Surface Pro (ok not a laptop, but you get me), the Zenbook, the Yoga Pro, they all are dangerously close to $1K- and MacBooks start at $899.

[Norman_the_Owl]

When you find laptops on par with MacBooks- the Surface Pro (ok not a laptop, but you get me), the Zenbook, the Yoga Pro, they all are dangerously close to $1K- and MacBooks start at $899.

I got my UX302la for $650...Which is pretty much what apple refurb 2013 macbooks go for. It's the same all along the payscale

[Ursad0n]

I got my UX302la for $650...Which is pretty much what apple refurb 2013 macbooks go for. It's the same all along the payscale

Fair, but that's equal pricing, which is by no means a strike against apple, if anything it proves that they're priced fairly. I'm ignoring the (5400 rpm) HDD rather than an SSD as well

[Norman_the_Owl]

Fair, but that's equal pricing, which is by no means a strike against apple, if anything it proves that they're priced fairly. I'm ignoring the (5400 rpm) HDD rather than an SSD as well

That's what i was trying to get at, Apple pricing really isn't that bad...when compared to others, that is. Apple's prices are absolutely horrendous, no matter how you look at it, but then again...everyone else's is too...

[elecxonica]

Because this forum is unfairly biased. Though, it's based off building PCs from scratch, so it makes sense

 

Also, Macs are PCs. Sure, there will be different types of questions, but it's all under the umbrella of desktops/laptops.

The forum isn't unfairly biased. You could go on a mac forum as a PC user and everyone would think you're horrible for not using a mac. If you go on a PC forum, most people will be pc users/elitists.

[Ursad0n]

That's what i was trying to get at, Apple pricing really isn't that bad...when compared to others, that is. Apple's prices are absolutely horrendous, no matter how you look at it, but then again...everyone else's is too...

EExxxxactly. I hated apple for a long time but I need a new laptop and I wanted to save up and get a quality one this time and after looking all summer it just seemed like the choice that made the most sense