The GTX 780 Isn't as Good of a Deal as Most People Think !

[GPUXPert]

People have been getting very excited for the 780, a bit too excited to be completely honest a 780 is a cut down Titan for 650$, that seems like a hell of a deal, but in reality it isn't.
Let's look at a couple of benchmarks and see how much your paying for the performance & if it's indeed worth it or not.

For the purpose of this comparison I'll be using TechPowerUp's review & comparing the 780 to the 7970 Ghz Edition.

I won't be comparing it to the 680, because it's only a 2GB card with a narrow memory bus, while the 7970 & 780 have the same amount of VRAM & equally large memory busses.

 

 

Let's start out with the most demanding game so far, Crysis 3 :

Here you're paying 44.4% more over the 7970 Ghz for 14.4% more performance.


Original Crysis :

Here you're paying 44.4% more over the 7970 Ghz for 8.6% more performance.

 

 

Far Cry 3 :

Here you're paying 44.4% more over the 7970 Ghz for 18.8% more performance.

 

 

Metro 2033 :

Here you're paying 44.4% more over the 7970 Ghz for 26.3% more performance.

 

 

Tomb Raider :

Here you're paying 44.4% more over the 7970 Ghz for 11.9% more performance.


Hitman Absolution :

Here you're paying 44.4% more over the 7970 Ghz for 26.3% more performance.

 

 

Battlefield 3 :

Here you're paying 44.4% more over the 7970 Ghz for 18.0% more performance.

 

Assassin's Creed 3 :

Here you're paying 44.4% more over the 7970 Ghz for 21.4% more performance.


Sleeping Dogs :

Here you're paying 44.4% more over the 7970 Ghz for 1.2% more performance.


On average, you're paying 44.4% more for the 780 over the 7970 Ghz & only getting 18% more performance :

The purpose of this thread isn't to entice a fan war of any sort, but to remind folks not let the excitement of any launch get the better of you, the 780 seems like a good deal for 650$ only because the Titan was an awfully overpriced product at 1000$.

If you factor in overclocking the 780 will push higher numbers, but so will the other cards.
If you already have a 7970 or a 680, don't jump the gun, because you will not be getting a whole lot for your money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GuppyTech]

I still think it is a better option than the titan.

 

i would consider buying one if the price dropped on a special.

[Optimus Prime]

One word: Drivers

Pretty much all it's coming down too

[MegaTechPC]

While the numbers you posted don't lie, I'd say that there has always been a bit of diminishing returns when considering a high end video card.  The fact remains that the Titan and GTX 780 are the fastest single GPU video cards made today and that carries with it an intrinsic value that does not scale linearly with performance and never has.  Sure the prices are even wackier than they've ever been now (due to AMD's complete absence from the new video card scene) but that does not change the fact that if you want the best you have to pay a premium for it and that has always been true.  WHether or not the cards are worth this new inflated price has already partially been answered by the tremendous sales success thus far of the GTX Titan...

[GuppyTech]

^ Agreed ^

[TechFan@ic]

I have a theory, a conspiracy theory, I happen to believe that Nvidia purposely overpriced the Titan to hell so it can launch the 780 & make it look good.
But if you really look at the numbers you realize that it isn't as exciting as you've initially thought.

One word: Drivers
Pretty much all it's coming down too

Titan has been around for a long while now, drivers didn't make any significant difference, the reviewers also used new drivers specially for the 780, so what you see in the reviews is what you will get.

[Akula]

Good overveiw to be honest, i really considered the 780 but i went with the 680's in my current build.

I'd be all over the 7970 GHZ but it's a shame EK don't produce full Acetal/Nickel waterblocks, some reason they have decided to do half acetal & half nickel

[TERAFLOP]

While the numbers you posted don't lie, I'd say that there has always been a bit of diminishing returns when considering a high end video card.  The fact remains that the Titan and GTX 780 are the fastest single GPU video cards made today and that carries with it an intrinsic value that does not scale linearly with performance and never has.  Sure the prices are even wackier than they've ever been now (due to AMD's complete absence from the new video card scene) but that does not change the fact that if you want the best you have to pay a premium for it and that has always been true.  WHether or not the cards are worth this new inflated price has already partially been answered by the tremendous sales success thus far of the GTX Titan...

Diminishing returns are a fact, but we're the ones that allow companies to charge such large premiums for such minute improvements, so we're the ones to blame for this.

Personally 650$ cards don't float my boat, you pay a huge premium for tiny performance advantages & they depreciate faster than last year's fashion !

[Immort]

I think I'll be sticking to my 7970 thank you.

[GamerDude]

Bah, there will always be fanboys with deep pockets who would be all over the Titan and GTX780 regardless of cost......dimishing returns would not factor into their thinking. In my neck of the woods, a GTX780 cost ~800USD and the Titan ~1300USD (local $ converted to USD) and yet they're being snapped up like there's no tomorrow. Heck, a guy I'm friends with in a local tech forum has a similarly spec'ed machine as my rig in sig, but replace my 3x HD7970 with 3x GTX Titan and you'd have an idea what I mean. Cost is no object to them......when Volcanic Islands' release, you can bet I'd not jump rig on it at launch, I'd prolly wait a couple of months for some price adjustments before getting two at least.

[winny3141]

GPUXpert, I greatly respect you, but I sense someone who has a passion for hardware and is looking at the specs a little to much. And if anyone has a passion for hardware, it is me, but hardware is worthless unless you have good firmware driving it .Now I admit I am turning into a little bit of an Nvidia fanboy, yet I have been on the other side. Let's put this out there, yes, the GTX 780 and the 7970 GHz Edition perform similarly. But ask anyone, if they took a 780 and a 7970 GHz edition, which image would look better and which image would be more smoother in a gamer's opinion during a blind test? Both would go to Nvidia, and this is why Nvidia can charge these outrageous prices with insanely large profit margins; they know they have the best. Between their PhysX technology, which is not integrated into a lot of games, yet is still outrageously stunning in the games that are supported and leads the charge for the future of gaming, Picture Quality, CUDA, integrated into video editing and 3d modeling applications as well as driving a parallel processing architecture that is leading the charge in video cards, and the best Hardware Frame Metering integration with single and dual card configurations I have ever seen; there is no competition. AMD is great in terms of price to performance, and is almost identical to that of the GTX 780 in specs, but if your not Bitcoin minning, and you arn't addicted to quantitative frame rates, chances are your going to go with an nvidia card. And that is why I am willing to pay a premium, because I want in on the nvidia game. And before you call me out and say I am wrong about this and wrong about that; look at what other people think. At the end of the day, it comes down to what the player sees and his or her experience using the hardware; and most will say they had a better experience with Nvidia than AMD.

 

BTW -- Look at the new features that the GTX 780 employs: ShadowPlay, GeForce Experience, GPU Boost 2.0 (featured in Titan), and Troubleshooting Overclocking (what more could you want?)

 

- winny3141 :D

[PCBudgetSolutions]

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GeForce_GTX_780_OC/

Gigabyte GTX 780 vs HD 7970GHz @ 1600p

 

Crysis 3

GTX 780: 24.6

HD 7970GHz: 19.4

Difference: 27%

 

 

Crysis

GTX 780: 46.2

HD 7970GHz: 38.2

Difference: 21%

 

 

Far Cry 3

GTX 780: 37.8

HD 7970GHz: 27.1

Difference: 39%

 

 

Metro 2033

GTX 780: 34.1

HD 7970GHz: 24.7

Difference: 38%

 

 

Tomb Raider

GTX 780: 34.5

HD 7970GHz: 26.7

Difference: 29%

 

 

Hitman

GTX 780: 37.6

HD 7970GHz: 27.6

 

Difference: 36%

 

 

Battlefield 3

GTX 780: 68.2

HD 7970GHz: 50

Difference: 36%

 

 

Assassins Creed 3

GTX 780: 57.6

HD 7970GHz: 42

Difference: 37%

 

 

Sleeping Dogs

 

 

GTX 780: 65.4

HD 7970GHz: 56.2

Difference: 16%

 

Average: 29% ahead of an HD 7970Ghz.

Second cheapest HD 7970Ghz is 453.98 as seen here: http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/#c=112&sort=a5

Second cheapest GTX 780 is 659.99

 

So yes, at LAUNCH it's about 44% more expensive for 29% more performance.  It will probably drop a bit in a few months.  But also factor in drivers and GPU boost 2.0 when watercooled should bring it near 2xGTX 670 in SLI performance wise.

[MattDaemontools]

 But ask anyone, if they took a 780 and a 7970 GHz edition, which image would look better and which image would be more smoother in a gamer's opinion during a blind test? Both would go to Nvidia,

AMD cards are smoother, this has been proven several times already. So you're wrong.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/16525-what-is-your-favorite-gpu-chipset-manufacturer/?p=188244

 

 

Now I admit I am turning into a little bit of an Nvidia fanboy,

- winny3141 :D

This explains everything.

[TechFan@ic]

Average: 29% ahead of an HD 7970Ghz.

Second cheapest HD 7970Ghz is 453.98 as seen here: http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/#c=112&sort=a5

Second cheapest GTX 780 is 659.99

This is not a fair comparison, you're comparing a reference card to an overclocked one.

If you want to compare cards fairly, compare overclocked cards to overclocked cards, here you go :

You pay 44% more & get 24% more performance. So you're getting almost half what you paid for.

[MegaTechPC]

Let's not forget that the 7970 also overclocks much higher than the 780 does so that 20-25% average performance increase will shrink even more.  I'd say a 1380MHz 7970 would come close to a stock 780 in most games...

[Legion]

I would rather see a 780 put up against one of the 6GB 7970's at 4K , Linus get on this please and thank you.

[MegaTechPC]

Linus is too busy trolling crossfire right now (I'm not sure I can stand another round of Linus yammering on and on about how oh-so-important frame rating is all of the sudden)....  

[PCBudgetSolutions]

Let's not forget that the 7970 also overclocks much higher than the 780 does so that 20-25% average performance increase will shrink even more.  I'd say a 1380MHz 7970 would come close to a stock 780 in most games...

I don't know, I have a Sapphire Vapor X HD 7950 with dual 8 pin connectors and anything past 1050/1450 I lose the driver.  I would say 1200/1600 would be the max of an HD 7970.  Also remember a GTX 780 watercooled can easily reach 1400/1500 core and probably close to 8000 memory with max GPU boost 2.0.

[winny3141]

Let's not forget that the 7970 also overclocks much higher than the 780 does so that 20-25% average performance increase will shrink even more.  I'd say a 1380MHz 7970 would come close to a stock 780 in most games...

Titan, based off of the GK110 chip similar to that of a 780, was clocked all the way up to 1.672 GHz by EVGA, so the card has overclockability. Also, GPU Boost 2.0 automatically overclocks the chip based on a temperature target, no a MHz target like that of a 7970, so it is more geared towards to the masses of gamers (not saying I am one, just pointing out a really nifty feature). Finally, for the pros like myself and the members of LTT, Nvidia has Troubleshooting Overclocking, where the firmware records data, and if there is something wrong with an overclock or the card is getting to hot, the EVGA Precision-X utility, for example, will warn you that your card is in danger and tell you what is the problem based on what the Nvidia firmware is telling the software. That is helpful.

 

Source:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/EVGA-Benchmark-Titan-Nvidia-3DMark,21916.html

 

 

- winny3141 :D

[MegaTechPC]

I'm talking about under normal cooling here (air/water).  I have two Titans and can tell you that they OC on average around 1175MHz.  I've seen a few at 1250MHz or so but nothing higher than that without a hard mod to get around the 1.212 voltage limit.  I also have had 4 different 7970's and can tell you that 1380MHz under water is absolutely possible (though you need a good chip).

[That Norwegian Guy]

Yay, propaganda! Whoo!

[Borgodoc]

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[Opsilon]

Guys you are missing the point.

the 780 is expensive because it can be, every company can put their best product to cost more if it can beat the competition, sure to the edge overclocked 7970 ghz edition ( just keep in mind not all can go up there, silicon lottery )

Just look at intel... 3970 and 3960... they can do it, and people will buy it, i mean MegaTechPC you bought it and the 3930 can do the same and its sometimes even 40% cheaper.

 

The 780 will come down on price, same as the titan, not buy much but it will.

The 780 is targeted for rich or well to do gamers, that will buy 2 of them and use huge resolutions, and also they will be able to do 4k. Metro last light SSAA 4x needs sli titans or sli 780's to run smooth, there will always be overpriced hardware, if AMD was doing brutally good they would price their mega chip the same. 

[PBaines]

all these charts show me is win 

[TechFan@ic]

all these charts show me is win 

I think you're missing the point.