The GTX 780 Isn't as Good of a Deal as Most People Think !

[KaareKanin]

AMD cards are smoother, this has been proven several times already. So you're wrong.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/16525-what-is-your-favorite-gpu-chipset-manufacturer/?p=188244

 

 

This explains everything.

 

Dude, that's proof of nothing. Look at the frame variance charts and you'll see

[MattDaemontools]

Dude, that's proof of nothing. Look at the frame variance charts and you'll see

You mean these :

http://www.pcper.com/image/view/23623?return=node%2F57132

http://www.pcper.com/image/view/23543?return=node%2F57119

http://www.pcper.com/image/view/23523?return=node%2F57117

http://www.pcper.com/image/view/23563?return=node%2F57126

7970 is smoother than 680 2GB & 680 4GB in all of them, smoother than Titan in one & tied with Titan in another.

[KaareKanin]

You mean these :

http://www.pcper.com/image/view/23623?return=node%2F57132

http://www.pcper.com/image/view/23543?return=node%2F57119

http://www.pcper.com/image/view/23523?return=node%2F57117

http://www.pcper.com/image/view/23563?return=node%2F57126

7970 is smoother than 680 2GB & 680 4GB in all of them, smoother than Titan in one & tied with Titan in another.

 

And something like this

[Immort]

Dude, that's proof of nothing. Look at the frame variance charts and you'll see

He's right though, AMD cards are smoother.

I think you're referring to multi-GPU configurations though, which is not what Winny was talking about, he generalized so he was corrected.

[GamerDude]

Dude, that's proof of nothing. Look at the frame variance charts and you'll see

Again, you're looking at charts, I play many games with CF and I don't see this stutter....or frame latency issue. I do see  it in FC3 and Crysis 3, but not in manuy of the games I play.....charts are just charts. NVidia has been pushing for this since they know they are better at this frame latency issue, and many review sites are adopting it. I do play a lot of games, not all have this issue, only a handful....like the two I'd mentioned since they are the most recent ones I have played. I believe the experience is even better with a single AMD GPU card as they suffer less from this....

[KaareKanin]

Again, you're looking at charts, I play many games with CF and I don't see this stutter....or frame latency issue. I do see  it in FC3 and Crysis 3, but not in manuy of the games I play.....charts are just charts. NVidia has been pushing for this since they know they are better at this frame latency issue, and many review sites are adopting it. I do play a lot of games, not all have this issue, only a handful....like the two I'd mentioned since they are the most recent ones I have played. I believe the experience is even better with a single AMD GPU card as they suffer less from this....

 

My whole point is that nothing was proven ;)

[Immort]

And something like this

You've got to be joking, what he's showing is a tiny tiny wave between 20ms & 21ms which isn't even perceivable not only that, but if you look at the upper blue line for the 680, you'll find nasty spikes that are actually perceivable.

Here is what Tom Peterson from Nvidia himself said

 

But I would say at this point you're talking about a 2ms to 3ms variation peak to peak & those are gonna be very very hard to see.

[pyromaniac]

1250mhz on 1.1v and I haven't seen it go over 61degree's... Yeah these 780's are terrible :P

[KaareKanin]

You've got to be joking, what he's showing is a tiny tiny wave between 20ms & 21ms which isn't even perceivable not only that, but if you look at the upper blue line for the 680, you'll find nasty spikes that are actually perceivable.

Here is what Tom Peterson from Nvidia himself said

 

 

Are you even looking at the same graph? all the way up to the 97th percentile the 7970 performs worse than both the 680 and Titan. Not by so much that I would say it's a deciding factor, but in that case enough to say that the AMD card isn't smoother. That's why I said you haven't proven anything

[MattDaemontools]

My whole point is that nothing was proven ;)

Funny that you decided to post that video but completely ignored  the atrocious latency on the Titan.

http://youtu.be/2cH_ozvn0gA?t=21m22s

I apologize to GPUXPert I don't want to hijack the thread, but this latency crap needs to be put to rest.

 

 

Are you even looking at the same graph? all the way up to the 97th percentile the 7970 performs worse than both the 680 and Titan. Not by so much that I would say it's a deciding factor, but in that case enough to say that the AMD card isn't smoother. That's why I said you haven't proven anything

What are you even talking about ? all the charts show the 7970 smoother than the 680s & even than Titan in Dirt 3.

[Scia]

I have a theory, a conspiracy theory, I happen to believe that Nvidia purposely overpriced the Titan to hell so it can launch the 780 & make it look good.

 

This is very well possible.

[KaareKanin]

Funny that you decided to post that video but completely ignored  the atrocious latency on the Titan.

http://youtu.be/2cH_ozvn0gA?t=21m22s

I apologize to GPUXPert I don't want to hijack the thread, but this latency crap needs to be put to rest.

 

 

What are you even talking about ? all the charts show the 7970 smoother than the 680s & even than Titan in Dirt 3.

 

This is the graph I linked to

 

Anyways, you used the word "proven" when clearly nothing is proven. Doing these kinds of analyses on single GPU solutions seems needless, so I completely agree that this "latency crap" should be put to rest when it doesn't concern dual GPUs or any abnormal behavior. 

[TechFan@ic]

This is the graph I linked to

 

Anyways, you used the word "proven" when clearly nothing is proven. Doing these kinds of analyses on single GPU solutions seems needless, so I completely agree that this "latency crap" should be put to rest when it doesn't concern dual GPUs or any abnormal behavior. 

All those cards have latency below 2ms, non of them reach 2ms, which according to Tom Petersen any latency at or below 2ms can't be seen at all.

[KaareKanin]

All those cards have latency below 2ms, non of them reach 2ms, which according to Tom Petersen any latency at or below 2ms can't be seen at all.

 

Exactly

[TechFan@ic]

Exactly

We went sort of off topic so I apologize.

But going back to the 780 argument, the 780 is still not really a good performance/price card like people have been saying, it may seem that way compared to Titan but that's just because Titan is astronomically overpriced.

I'm not saying the 780 isn't a good card, it's in fact a great card, but again if performance/price is your thing then look somewhere else, possibly the 770 coming next week, even though I'm very skeptical of that card.

I still have hope that some non-reference cooled & overvolting friendly 780 might surface that will make the 780 a better deal but I doubt it seeing as how Nvidia is strictly against over-volting.

Like I said before, I have a feeling that Nvidia's plan all along was to overprice the Titan so much to make the 780 look good.

[skljom]

I would get 7990, still fastest GPU on the planet.

[Saan Koneri]

GTX 780/Titan stock blower cooler is the issue because GPU boost 2.0 works within thermal limit, you can set the limit for example 85°C and when temperatures reach that level card clocks down. When you have a cooler like the new EVGA ACX which keeps the temperatures so cool that GPU boost 2.0 can boost the clocks as much as it can without hitting the thermal limit.

 

Results are vastly different with excellent cooler and you can OC the the living hell out of the card. Check the results from TPU and don't tell me it doesn't look tempting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"EVGA's card overclocks the best out of the cards we have reviewed so far, but the difference is rather small. What is important to highlight here is that EVGA's cooler design allows the card to deliver higher performance anyways. Boost 2.0 will reduce clocks once the card reaches 80°C, which happens on the NVIDIA reference design but never with the EVGA GTX 780 SC."

 

"So what did EVGA do to make their card so fast—faster than the much more expensive GTX Titan? First of all, they increased the GPU clocks by more than 100 MHz (130 MHz higher than Titan). Unfortunately, memory clock is unchanged, which would have been an easy extra boost. Our manual overclocking confirms that there would be plenty of headroom for that. Now, the secret sauce seem to be the operating temperatures. NVIDIA designed their Boost 2.0 algorithm with temperatures in mind: if the card goes beyond 80°C, Boost 2.0 will reduce clocks to ensure the card stays around that temperature target. EVGA realized that and designed a cooler that ensures the card will never reach 80°C to keep the additional throttling from taking effect. Just having a good cooler is not enough, you also need to find the right fan speed settings. It's easy to stay below 80°C with a fan that sounds like a leaf blower, and EVGA picked decent fan settings that are just as quiet as the reference cooler without falling into the 80°C performance hole"

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GTX_780_SC_ACX_Cooler/1.html

[Nexus]

A little while ago i was considering selling my 7970s for a titan but the more i think about the more it just inst justified. Nvidia has really went mad with pricing this time around (probably because they know AMD wont be releasing anything till the end of the year)

Its saddening to think about the state of the GPU industry atm.

 

Oh well on the bright side, i will have had my 7970 for almost 2 years by the time amds replacement comes around which i probably the longest ive had any gpu in recent years.

[Optimus Prime]

Wasn't the price of the 7000 series really high until nvidia rolled out the 600 series? competition creating lower prices and all that jazz?

[Nexus]

Wasn't the price of the 7000 series really high until nvidia rolled out the 600 series? competition creating lower prices and all that jazz?

it wasnt even close to the 780.

The 7970 was about £400 to £450 so about 100 pounds cheaper. It was also roughly a similar jump in performance from the 580 as the 780 is to the 7970.

[kaneandtaker]

Whats the max voltage allowable for GTX 780?

[pyromaniac]

1.2v

[winny3141]

Quick question: will those new features be carried over to the Titan as well? Or are they already available for the Titan?

I think the features will be carried over. I know that GeForce Experience software is globally compatible with all Nvidia cards. Or maybe just the 600 series and up, due to the fact that you need this software to stream games to your shield, but I have a feeling that it is global. The software also employs choosing graphics settings for you, as well as keeping your drivers up to date; which means that all gamers (even the one's who don't know what all the graphics presets are) can game with an optimal experience based on what Nvidia recommends for a said card. Also, it compares the cpu and the gpu based on info on their servers, to set the best graphics settings based on how much the cpu will perform in synergy with the gpu, so it is even good for enthusiasts (I would love to see what settings would be reccomending for my new config when I get a 780 possibly this summer). Shadowplay, the screen recording feature that allows you to record 1080p at 30 FPS using special hardware on the card that is designed for that specific feature, will be local to the GK110 chip, so it will be compatable with the Titan and 780. I like to think of it this way, the 780 is equivalent to the Intel Core i7 3930k, and the Titan, which performs a little bit better, but is the best none the less, is equivalent to that of the Intel Core i7 3970X. There is a big price difference, but the performance gap between the two cards are not that big. The 780 has better GPU Boost 2.0 integration, it can clock way higher, but at the same time its performance is contigent on the GPU clock, while the Titan has all the SMX units enabled so it can perform better and consume less power at lower clocks. Bottom line, the 780 is the affordable Titan, but the Titan is still the best, but by the slimmest of margins, similar to that of the Sandy Bridge-E lineup of CPUs from Intel.

 

- winny3141 :D

[Genecidalic]

This doesn't really concern me because I prefer amd cards a lot more then nvidia

[winny3141]

I would get 7990, still fastest GPU on the planet.

Yes, but there are terrible lattency between frames. Two 7970s in CrossFireX, which is essentially one 7990, but over two different cards instead of one, goes from .6 ms latency between frames in Skyrim with one card, and 8.6 ms latency between frames with two of them. This is the only instance where I would reccomend getting only one card, if you are going with a 7000 series graphics card from AMD; unless your bit coin mining.

 

Source:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-780-performance-review,3516-20.html

 

 

Minimal scaling aside, the AMD cards don’t see their frame-to-frame latencies narrow. In fact, whereas a single Radeon HD 7970 demonstrates a worst-case of .6 ms, two working together spike to 8.6 ms.

 

- winny3141 :D