Proof Verizon is throttling Netflix

[Keudn]

Verizon throttles Netflix confirmed?!  

[Bloodyvalley]

I doubt it

[dlf]

Doubt it? Using a VPN we can see it jump to about 10x what directly through Netflix does. WE WANT A GIGABYTE! WE WANT A GIGABYTE! WE WANT A GIGABYTE! WE WANT A GIGABYTE! WE WANT A GIGABYTE! WE WANT A GIGABYTE!

[TheMail]

Suprise suprise, yet another shit ISP.

[TheMail]

I doubt it

You doubt it based on...?

[dalekphalm]

I doubt it

 

Excellent logic used in your reply...

[Gabriel]

fuck verizon they have always been shit. this is no surprise.

[tharvey]

This is why I don't use Verizon.  I give exactly 0 fucks about reasons for throttling Netflix... its all just greed.

[Misanthrope]

Just an FYI for those who don't think net neutrality is a big deal: Under the proposed rules, not only would Verizon would be legally able to do this in the open, but they could also just throttle known VPN service providers so most solutions worth a damn, free or otherwise, would be throttled as well.

[Trik'Stari]

Why would they be doing this? It just doesn't make any sense.

[dalekphalm]

Why would they be doing this? It just doesn't make any sense.

Well the simplest explanation is this: Netflix is competition. If they make Netflix "Look Bad", then people will be more likely to purchase their own Media Solution: FiOS TV

 

Also, the other reason is that Netflix recently came to a deal with Comcast to basically "pay" for a "fast lane". Or in other words, pay to not be throttled. So if Verizon can "sweat" Netflix out, maybe just maybe they'll get some of that sweet sweet "protection" money too.

 

Other reasons being that if Verizon is being lazy and/or greedy and is behind in network infrastructure upgrades (Which is pretty likely given it's a US based ISP), then they can save on cost by just throttling that which uses the most bandwidth.

[Trik'Stari]

Well the simplest explanation is this: Netflix is competition. If they make Netflix "Look Bad", then people will be more likely to purchase their own Media Solution: FiOS TV

 

Also, the other reason is that Netflix recently came to a deal with Comcast to basically "pay" for a "fast lane". Or in other words, pay to not be throttled. So if Verizon can "sweat" Netflix out, maybe just maybe they'll get some of that sweet sweet "protection" money too.

 

Other reasons being that if Verizon is being lazy and/or greedy and is behind in network infrastructure upgrades (Which is pretty likely given it's a US based ISP), then they can save on cost by just throttling that which uses the most bandwidth.

That's....gay

 

Funny thing is I've watched FiOS TV, I would rather have netflix even when slow.

 

Edit: Still can't believe their charging for "fast lanes" now, how did it come to this? THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS DAMNIT

[mr moose]

Why would they be doing this? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

For $$$$,  it always comes back to $$$$.   So $$$ wins and $$$ talks and net neutrality walks.  because $

 

 

 

$

[Trik'Stari]

For $$$$,  it always comes back to $$$$.   So $$$ wins and $$$ talks and net neutrality walks.  because $

 

 

 

$

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

Hopefully someone will find a way to circumvent their bullshit. Or one smart company will start up that refuses to buy into the bullshit, and just offers everyone a low price

[Mainfold]

I wouldn't look past it, that it may be verizon throttling netflix, but that being said... how do you know it's not netflix specifically throttling/bottlenecking verizon-users? Using a VPN proves nothing on that side of it.

 

You can snowball around this all you want, but unless you have actual direct access to the data-traffic between the two, you can't really establish a proper argument for or against either side in this whole debacle.

 

There would have to be internal investigations on both sides done by a single non-biased party for it to have any form of legitimacy in any case, which... well... I doubt we'll see any time soon, unless netflix or verizon are both out of their minds. 

 

 

edit: one thing that might be worth a shot, is trying to have the data encrypted in some way, between netflix and the user, and then between the user and verizon (in two separate tests), to see if you avoid throttling in either of the cases, in which case the one that didn't slow you down, would be the source of the throttling. So, if someone has an idea of how to do it, without leaving a trace of the traffic in the packet data, sure go ahead.. but I ain't saying this is a definitive way of doing it, or if it'll even work at all.

[LukaP]

I wouldn't look past it, that it may be verizon throttling netflix, but that being said... how do you know it's not netflix specifically throttling/bottlenecking verizon-users? Using a VPN proves nothing on that side of it.

 

You can snowball around this all you want, but unless you have actual direct access to the data-traffic between the two, you can't really establish a proper argument for or against either side in this whole debacle.

 

There would have to be internal investigations on both sides done by a single non-biased party for it to have any form of legitimacy in any case, which... well... I doubt we'll see any time soon, unless netflix or verizon are both out of their minds. 

 

 

edit: one thing that might be worth a shot, is trying to have the data encrypted in some way, between netflix and the user, and then between the user and verizon (in two separate tests), to see if you avoid throttling in either of the cases, in which case the one that didn't slow you down, would be the source of the throttling. So, if someone has an idea of how to do it, without leaving a trace of the traffic in the packet data, sure go ahead.. but I ain't saying this is a definitive way of doing it, or if it'll even work at all.

and how likely would it be that netflix would throttle a large percent of its target audience? especially compared to the likelyness of an ISP being greedy and wanting in on the netflix money, and basically extorting netflix...

[Mainfold]

and how likely would it be that netflix would throttle a large percent of its target audience? especially compared to the likelyness of an ISP being greedy and wanting in on the netflix money, and basically extorting netflix...

 

That would seem logical wouldn't it? But, consider if netflix is trying to get some form of payback for all the charges from ISP's for traffic etc, and verizon is just the start? That's what a lot of people have been saying lately, but then again who knows.

 

You never know, hence lobbyists. There's always potential ulterior motive in any case like this, so unless anyone actually has a way of providing some solid evidence shifting it in either direction, it's a unfounded topic to discuss (and just becomes a bunch of conspiracy).

[LukaP]

That would seem logical wouldn't it? But, consider if netflix is trying to get some form of payback for all the charges from ISP's for traffic etc, and verizon is just the start? That's what a lot of people have been saying lately, but then again who knows.

 

You never know, hence lobbyists. There's always potential ulterior motive in any case like this, so unless anyone actually has a way of providing some solid evidence shifting it in either direction, it's a unfounded topic to discuss (and just becomes a bunch of conspiracy).

i agree its possible, i was just stating to look at the likelyness of it. considering the scummy things Verizon did before, its really waaay more likely its them. but as you said, there is the off chance its actually netflix

[ZeroBreaker]

That would seem logical wouldn't it? But, consider if netflix is trying to get some form of payback for all the charges from ISP's for traffic etc, and verizon is just the start? That's what a lot of people have been saying lately, but then again who knows.

 

You never know, hence lobbyists. There's always potential ulterior motive in any case like this, so unless anyone actually has a way of providing some solid evidence shifting it in either direction, it's a unfounded topic to discuss (and just becomes a bunch of conspiracy).

 

Sorry, but i don't think that makes any sense. The issue is that people would go on to netflix, be throttled by the ISP, realise that Netflix is slow but verizons own service is fast, and blame netflix, switching to verizons video service. It's anticompetitive, which everyone seems to forget is illegal. That was what was argued when the net neutrality thing hit the media, and is the main thing propelling the argument (because common decency is a foreign word to most companies). If netflix was to throttle customers, the user would still experience slow speeds on their site, still realise the rest of the internet works ok, and still blame netflix - netflix could only lose customers and verizon could only gain them. While i don't think netflix has approached net neutrality in the right way (arguing far more with ISP's than the FCC, when the fault lies pretty much in the FCC only - companies need regulation because they aren't people, have no concept of morality), they aren't that mentally challenged that they would attack themselves in this way.

Considering this, the only logical conclusion based on the evidence we have is that Verizon, in anticipation of net neutrality disappearing in to the ether, has pre-gimped netflix for it's customers. It's not a conspiracy if it's logical and there is evidence for it.

I consider the video enough evidence to draw a conclusion, because Verizon have the motive, it is precedented (comcast), and it is known they are fighting against net neutrality. Open-and-shut case.

[Mainfold]

Sorry, but i don't think that makes any sense. The issue is that people would go on to netflix, be throttled by the ISP, realise that Netflix is slow but verizons own service is fast, and blame netflix, switching to verizons video service. It's anticompetitive, which everyone seems to forget is illegal. That was what was argued when the net neutrality thing hit the media, and is the main thing propelling the argument (because common decency is a foreign word to most companies). If netflix was to throttle customers, the user would still experience slow speeds on their site, still realise the rest of the internet works ok, and still blame netflix - netflix could only lose customers and verizon could only gain them. While i don't think netflix has approached net neutrality in the right way (arguing far more with ISP's than the FCC, when the fault lies pretty much in the FCC only - companies need regulation because they aren't people, have no concept of morality), they aren't that mentally challenged that they would attack themselves in this way.

Considering this, the only logical conclusion based on the evidence we have is that Verizon, in anticipation of net neutrality disappearing in to the ether, has pre-gimped netflix for it's customers. It's not a conspiracy if it's logical and there is evidence for it.

I consider the video enough evidence to draw a conclusion, because Verizon have the motive, it is precedented (comcast), and it is known they are fighting against net neutrality. Open-and-shut case.

 

First off.. should I direct you to the anti-competitive law that was just past for ISP's? So how illegal it is, seems to be a matter of opinion or rather.. a matter of who you've payed to make sure it's not a problem any more.

 

It's what's been happening for a while.. If people experience that netflix is the only slow thing on their connection, they go complain to netflix, netflix tells them it's their ISP slowing the traffic from netflix to the user, user complains to ISP, netflix looks like the good-guy in the situation. It's not the first time something like this has happened, and you shouldn't overlook it as if netflix is incapable of doing such, as they've already started increasing prices for users after they got charged more by the ISP's for the traffic. If you watch The Tek, they've gone through this a bunch of times, and it's not like they're incapable of it, but it doesn't mean that it might not still be the ISP's doing. I'm just saying, it's fully possible that it's just as much on netflix's end, as it could be on verizon's end.

 

Recently, both verizon and netflix have blamed each other, and provided "evidence" that it's not them, so who's actually to blame is something we can only ponder on.. since we don't exactly have inside access (legally at least).

 

I'm not trying to defend either of them, I'm just saying that there are more than enough reasons for both parties to do this, so who the actual "bad-guy" is, isn't too easy to say at the moment, but.. When it's dog-eats-dog, you are what you eat.

[Gunjob]

First off.. should I direct you to the anti-competitive law that was just past for ISP's? So how illegal it is, seems to be a matter of opinion or rather.. a matter of who you've payed to make sure it's not a problem any more.

 

It's what's been happening for a while.. If people experience that netflix is the only slow thing on their connection, they go complain to netflix, netflix tells them it's their ISP slowing the traffic from netflix to the user, user complains to ISP, netflix looks like the good-guy in the situation. It's not the first time something like this has happened, and you shouldn't overlook it as if netflix is incapable of doing such, as they've already started increasing prices for users after they got charged more by the ISP's for the traffic. If you watch The Tek, they've gone through this a bunch of times, and it's not like they're incapable of it, but it doesn't mean that it might not still be the ISP's doing. I'm just saying, it's fully possible that it's just as much on netflix's end, as it could be on verizon's end.

 

Recently, both verizon and netflix have blamed each other, and provided "evidence" that it's not them, so who's actually to blame is something we can only ponder on.. since we don't exactly have inside access (legally at least).

 

I'm not trying to defend either of them, I'm just saying that there are more than enough reasons for both parties to do this, so who the actual "bad-guy" is, isn't too easy to say at the moment, but.. When it's dog-eats-dog, you are what you eat.

 but thats all removed when a user can just VPN to netflix, since Netflix sends it traffic to that VPN server at full speed. If using a VPN didn't fix the problem then I'd agree it was Netflix being shady but since the trottling only happens on customer to netflix on a direct connection then Verizon are the scum bags. 

[Mainfold]

 but thats all removed when a user can just VPN to netflix, since Netflix sends it traffic to that VPN server at full speed. If using a VPN didn't fix the problem then I'd agree it was Netflix being shady but since the trottling only happens on customer to netflix on a direct connection then Verizon are the scum bags. 

 

Well, as I wrote earlier, they can target specific ISP's for throttling, and when you're on a VPN, it won't show up as that ISP... so they wouldn't throttle then, etc.

[ZeroBreaker]

First off.. should I direct you to the anti-competitive law that was just past for ISP's? So how illegal it is, seems to be a matter of opinion or rather.. a matter of who you've payed to make sure it's not a problem any more.

 

It's what's been happening for a while.. If people experience that netflix is the only slow thing on their connection, they go complain to netflix, netflix tells them it's their ISP slowing the traffic from netflix to the user, user complains to ISP, netflix looks like the good-guy in the situation. It's not the first time something like this has happened, and you shouldn't overlook it as if netflix is incapable of doing such, as they've already started increasing prices for users after they got charged more by the ISP's for the traffic. If you watch The Tek, they've gone through this a bunch of times, and it's not like they're incapable of it, but it doesn't mean that it might not still be the ISP's doing. I'm just saying, it's fully possible that it's just as much on netflix's end, as it could be on verizon's end.

 

Recently, both verizon and netflix have blamed each other, and provided "evidence" that it's not them, so who's actually to blame is something we can only ponder on.. since we don't exactly have inside access (legally at least).

 

I'm not trying to defend either of them, I'm just saying that there are more than enough reasons for both parties to do this, so who the actual "bad-guy" is, isn't too easy to say at the moment, but.. When it's dog-eats-dog, you are what you eat.

 

I understand your point, but the thing is the average person cannot tell the difference between a computer and a monitor, nevermind actually find the netflix contact email and write to them explaining the issue. Netflix already issued notices to customers of ISP's telling them when they were being throttled, but this wasn't asked for by any customers, this was netflix trying hard not to lose business. I have no love for netflix, they have a terrible model where they stop licensing shows with low popularity to save space instead of actually buying more servers, but i can't fault what they are doing - they have all but lost in the courts, and are going to be forced to pay more to ISP's, it's completely reasonable for them to increase prices to maintain their profit margin. Even so, this has nothing to do with the issue.

My biggest problem is you saying that it might be the ISP's fault. No, it is almost definitely the ISP's fault. Netflix would be making a terrible decision for themselves by throttling their customers, because they aren't going to raise their voices, but instead cancel and switch. This is clear by looking at my population, and from what I can see and hear America's population in general is even less clued up than us. There is absolutely no way I can see netflix benefitting from something like this.

And with regards to anti competitive laws, I can't find anything recent in a google news search - could you please link me a source?

[Misanthrope]

 but thats all removed when a user can just VPN to netflix, since Netflix sends it traffic to that VPN server at full speed. If using a VPN didn't fix the problem then I'd agree it was Netflix being shady but since the trottling only happens on customer to netflix on a direct connection then Verizon are the scum bags. 

 

Like I explained, ISPs can easily just start throttling VPN services if enough of their uses catch into them as an alternative. That's why having a regulating authority actively making sure there's no preferential treatment is a must.

[terrytek]

This is why I don't use Verizon.  I give exactly 0 fucks about reasons for throttling Netflix... its all just greed.

This is why I use AT&T. I don't give 2 shits about Verizon, even if they have the largest 4G LTE network. They are unreliable.