Helldivers 2 requires PSN account linking and creates a lot of backlash

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

Quote

If a better solution isn't provided for players who are in regions without PSN coverage, I'm assured that we won't be making the requirement mandatory for those players.

 

https://old.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjyll7/some_discord_updates/

I can see the motive behind that statement, but just like that, the whole argument Sony had for why it was needed went out the window. 
It can no longer be argued that this is for security and technical reasons when it can remain optional for some users groups.

 

Not the first time a publisher has screwed up a developer's good work either. Maybe the games industry is just a bad place to work.

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, sub68 said:

Ahh Sony America (Sony interactive entertainment is basically part of Sony America) you have do so much stupid stuff.

Stellar blade

Yup, i was already "on the fence" after the whole discovery fiasco, Stellar Blade was the last straw. They just lost a customer (and possibly many more).......

/ON
Im not a fan of the Darth Vader tactic, if they havent enforced it up until now i dont think its a good idea to suddenly require account linking. Besides it wont have any advantages. Whatever they can do with PSN, steam probably can already do it on its own.

Edited May 4 by jagdtigger

[GoStormPlays]

On 5/3/2024 at 12:11 PM, TempestCatto said:

We live in an age where you need an account for your "smart" toaster. There's no reason to need to link an account to play a game on a different platform. That'd be like having to link our LTT Forum accounts to Discord in order to use the LTT Discord server.

 

I hate it here.

The big companies have to have your data about how you like your toast somehow.

[bizzlebazzle]

3 hours ago, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjyll7/some_discord_updates/

I can see the motive behind that statement, but just like that, the whole argument Sony had for why it was needed went out the window. 
It can no longer be argued that this is for security and technical reasons when it can remain optional for some users groups.

 

Not the first time a publisher has screwed up a developer's good work either. Maybe the games industry is just a bad place to work.

100% this, if its possible to void the requirement for users outside of PSN coverage -based on PSN only being available in 69 countries (nice) and Steam being available in vastly more, this could be a helluva lot! -  then its entirely unrequired in the first place.

It's honestly sad to see Sony shitting on Arrowheads good work in building a strong community around the game. You would have thought after the recent Tarkov nonsense that people would have learned but clearly not!

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

This is the gift that keeps on giving. Apparently you now need to not only be in a supported country, but you also need to be not poor:

TL;DR: In some countries, like Ukraine, you can only make a PSN account through a console. So, if you don't own a console or want to buy one, you will not be able to make an account and will lose access to Helldivers in about a month (or won't be able to join in about a day or so).

 

Not sure if this is indeed true, this is the internet after all. But man, locking PSN accounts behind buying a console in some countries, especially Ukraine at this point, not a good look for Sony. This might get ugly....

 

[Nowak]

11 hours ago, CarlBar said:

Someone in the US is allready putting together a class action

Logging in again to comment on this.

 

The Reddit user in question is getting laughed out the door because they are in the US, where PSN accounts are easy to sign up for, and is planning on suing on behalf of aggrieved customers in other countries, which you are unable to do under the US legal system. The user has no legal basis for the case, as they don't live in an affected country and clearly has no idea how the US legal system works, will be laughed out the room again by any lawyer worth their salt, and as such the suit will always remain text in a post on r/Helldivers. And if it does happen, I wish the user luck with getting back their money on a case they have no chance of winning.

 

As for the idea that this is a retroactive decision or a bait-and-switch, may I point to the bottom of this Steam announcement a month before release? Sony always had this planned, it was just disabled because the game blew the fuck up at launch and broke the account linker making people unable to play.

 

This is a failure on Sony to restrict sales in countries where PSN is unavailable and for improperly communicating to players that this requirement will eventually come back, and if launch went according to plan and they got 50k - 250k players at launch as anticipated and not close to a million the requirement would have never been waived.

[Spotty]

An update has been pushed to the Helldivers 2 steam page that blocks it from being purchased in a bunch of countries (most likely countries which cannot register PSN accounts). Kind of begs the question why those regions weren't already blocked if a PSN account was always intended to be a requirement.

https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542

 

 

Perhaps this is a naive question, but with all the community backlash why hasn't Sony/Arrowhead backed down and removed the PSN requirement? Seems to me all Sony/Arrowhead needs to do is come out and say "We've listened to community feedback and we're removing the requirement for a PSN account to play the game. Linking to a PSN account will remain optional." The last few months have proved that the game works just fine without a PSN account. What makes forcing a PSN account so valuable to Sony that makes it worth it to them to burn their goodwill with their customers? Or is it really just that angry comments on the internet have so little effect that they don't even care?

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

1 hour ago, Spotty said:

Perhaps this is a naive question, but with all the community backlash why hasn't Sony/Arrowhead backed down and removed the PSN requirement? Seems to me all Sony/Arrowhead needs to do is come out and say "We've listened to community feedback and we're removing the requirement for a PSN account to play the game. Linking to a PSN account will remain optional." The last few months have proved that the game works just fine without a PSN account. What makes forcing a PSN account so valuable to Sony that makes it worth it to them to burn their goodwill with their customers?

They might still backpaddle on this, but I'd give it a few more days for that. Honestly, the typical MO for anything internet related would be to just wait a few days for this to blow over or the next big outrage to grab the attention. This could be what Sony is counting on, taking the immediate L in the hopes of longer term wins.

 

Many people might stop playing, but by getting this through they might have their step into PC gaming and getting people on board with a PC version of PSN, slowly but steadily. That is my guess why they did it in the first place and why they more likely than not will not paddle back: getting some of that share from Steam.

 

We will see how this goes.

 

 

[nvhgamer]

Welp, Sony just pulled Helldivers out of 177 counties that doesn't have PSN. 

https://tweakers.net/nieuws/221606/sony-verwijdert-helldivers-2-in-177-verschillende-landen-van-steam.html

https://www.eurogamer.net/helldivers-2-has-been-pulled-from-sale-in-177-countries-as-its-psn-linking-requirement-rolls-out#:~:text=Follow Helldivers 2-,Helldivers 2 has been pulled from sale in 177 countries,February due to technical issues.

What about reimbursement or any solution for people in those countries that you allowed to buy your game and now can't play. Sony seems to refuse refunds, but Steam (to some extent) allegedly is: 

 

[nvhgamer]

To quote PirateSoftware:

Quote

"This is a complete PR disaster"

and

"This is like an nuclear bomb"

^{https://www.twitch.tv/piratesoftware/clip/ArtisticArtsyLobsterPraiseIt-u5e2YpNdyOj9qzBP}

For the following situation:
Sony says to certain players in certain PSN countries (namely in Ukraine):

Quote

"You are too poor to play Helldivers 2, go get a PS5 first, pleb"

 

https://www.twitch.tv/piratesoftware/clip/ArtisticArtsyLobsterPraiseIt-u5e2YpNdyOj9qzBP

[CarlBar]

2 hours ago, Spotty said:

An update has been pushed to the Helldivers 2 steam page that blocks it from being purchased in a bunch of countries (most likely countries which cannot register PSN accounts). Kind of begs the question why those regions weren't already blocked if a PSN account was always intended to be a requirement.

https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542

 

 

Perhaps this is a naive question, but with all the community backlash why hasn't Sony/Arrowhead backed down and removed the PSN requirement? Seems to me all Sony/Arrowhead needs to do is come out and say "We've listened to community feedback and we're removing the requirement for a PSN account to play the game. Linking to a PSN account will remain optional." The last few months have proved that the game works just fine without a PSN account. What makes forcing a PSN account so valuable to Sony that makes it worth it to them to burn their goodwill with their customers? Or is it really just that angry comments on the internet have so little effect that they don't even care?

 

As noted this is all on the Sony side, the community manager and CEO have both come out and said they flat don't want this, apparently Sony doesn't even read the official discord or reddit for the game. The two most active parts of the community and Sony doesn't care at all what they have to say.

 

There's also speculation the region lock might be Valve covering its own ass against being party to distributing a product that cannot be used. Which honestly is a sound move, also if you go via the tech support rather than refund ticket system they're issuing refunds.

 

I think the comment i've seen thats most funny is about how the games major order system has pavlovian trained a huge part of the player base to move as one on goals, and then Sony did something guaranteed to turn that monster against them.

[Mark Kaine]

23 hours ago, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjyll7/some_discord_updates/

I can see the motive behind that statement, but just like that, the whole argument Sony had for why it was needed went out the window. 
It can no longer be argued that this is for security and technical reasons when it can remain optional for some users groups.

 

Not the first time a publisher has screwed up a developer's good work either. Maybe the games industry is just a bad place to work.

Doesn't this game mandate a very invasive rootkit style "anti cheat" - that doesn't even prevent cheating...? Was that also mandated by Sony?

 

Furthermore, can you provide a link where SONY explicitly states they themselves require this game specifically to force users to make a PSN account? 

 

because for all i know this is all just hearsay and not confirmed by SONY in any way. 

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

15 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Furthermore, can you provide a link where SONY explicitly states they themselves require this game specifically to force users to make a PSN account? 

Sony has been absolutely quiet, it is the Devs/CMs who gave that information (sorry for linking a bunch of reddit threads, but that was the fastest way to find all the information):

 (Third image is the relevant quote from a CM)

 

Sony also apparently changed the FAQ recently:

However, the Arrowhead CEO also took some of the blame recently:

 

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

Sony has been absolutely quiet, it is the Devs/CMs who gave that information (sorry for linking a bunch of reddit threads, but that was the fastest way to find all the information):

The original update on Steam was by Sony.. They've been quiet about the fallout. They started the fallout though.

HELLDIVERS™ 2 - HELLDIVERS™ 2 Account Linking Update - Steam News (steampowered.com)

[RejZoR]

It's funny how you can't use PSN account in like 170 countries. Out of 195...

[nvhgamer]

6 hours ago, CarlBar said:

 

As noted this is all on the Sony side, the community manager and CEO have both come out and said they flat don't want this, apparently Sony doesn't even read the official discord or reddit for the game. The two most active parts of the community and Sony doesn't care at all what they have to say.

 

There's also speculation the region lock might be Valve covering its own ass against being party to distributing a product that cannot be used. Which honestly is a sound move, also if you go via the tech support rather than refund ticket system they're issuing refunds.

 

I think the comment i've seen thats most funny is about how the games major order system has pavlovian trained a huge part of the player base to move as one on goals, and then Sony did something guaranteed to turn that monster against them.

That is a complete fair thing to do from Valve’s perspective.

 

Also I don’t know if it’s partly being a (Japanese) company like Nintendo and just don’t look, the important people there don’t know/use Reddit and Discord or if they deliberately refuse to listen to the community, but this is just bad on their part. A good community relation can give you more sales and a long game life (like CS:GO, etc). There is nothing to gain when provoking or angering them… It’s just stupid.

[Mark Kaine]

4 hours ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

Sony has been absolutely quiet, it is the Devs/CMs who gave that information (sorry for linking a bunch of reddit threads, but that was the fastest way to find all the information):

 (Third image is the relevant quote from a CM)

 

Sony also apparently changed the FAQ recently:

However, the Arrowhead CEO also took some of the blame recently:

 

the thing is... even if sony changed it just now... i dont trust the devs at all, especially since they're employing this awful anti cheat  - that doesn't even work afaik... ie cheat engine does actually work and isn't detected either apparently...

 

That's why we would need actual gaming journalism, which we don't have... they all just parrot what the devs/studios etc tell them... or if people on reddit etc find something... which is probably going to be the case here eventually. 

 

ie... the thing the dev said... they knew... fine... but WHY? almost no other game does... then we would at least need clarification from SONY why how and when this policy change occurred,  because there's obviously no technical reason... been playing a gazillion of cross platform games with people on ps consoles and never needed a psn account... (until yesterday or what?) lol... SUS!

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

That's why we would need actual gaming journalism, which we don't have... they all just parrot what the devstm/studios etc tell them... or if people on reddit etc find something... which is probably going to be the case here eventually. 

Indeed. Someone with good contacts, sources and in-depth background knowledge could probably write an excellent article or even a series of articles on this kind of stuff.

Get statements from Sony, Valve etc. and give some context on what is happening here and why.

 

 

[IkeaGnome]

38 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

ie... the thing the dev said... they knew... fine... but WHY? almost no other game does... then we would at least need clarification from SONY why how and when this policy change occurred,  because there's obviously no technical reason... been playing a gazillion of cross platform games with people on ps consoles and never needed a psn account... (until yesterday or what?) lol... SUS!

I actually trust Arrowhead quite a bit here(kernel level anti cheat aside). What they've said lines up very well with what has been shown.

HD2 was always supposed to have PSN requirements and did at launch. It was temporarily suspended and it was stated that temporary suspension of this requirement was due to server load. Not requiring PSN temporarily allowed everyone who bought the game to play the game instead of getting review bombed for server issues. 

Pre-purchase HELLDIVERS™ 2 on Steam (archive.org)

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/553850/view/3906374309655891718?l=english

Read the legal on that update for launch as well.

Quote

Legal: PSN Account Required. Gameplay requires internet access and paid for PlayStation®Plus membership (sold separately) for PS5®. PlayStation Plus membership subject to recurring subscription fee taken automatically until cancellation. Age restrictions apply. Full terms: play.st/psplus-usageterms.

That screenshot is from the prerelease. It says that it requires the 3rd party account.

I wish I could find a good first party picture of a screenshot of somewhere they said it's temporary. If you wade through all the conspiracies though, enough people are saying it, and there are screenshots from in game of account linking process that it lines up.

 

----------on a good note-------------

 

Valve is processing refunds for people in countries that can't get PSN.

 

In the mean time it's been delisted for most any country that can't get a PSN. 

HELLDIVERS™ 2 (SubID 137730) · SteamDB

Look at change 23416542.

There's still a few missing, but the vast majority are on there.

 

Edited May 5 by IkeaGnome
changed "3rd part" to "3rd party"

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

HD2 was always supposed to have PSN requirements and did at launch.

Im not so sure, if that were the case they wouldnt sell it in regions where PSN is not available. But that is not what happened.....


As for Sony they probably stuck their head even deeper into the sand screeching "la-la-la" on the top of their lungs........

[WhitetailAni]

12 hours ago, Spotty said:

Perhaps this is a naive question, but with all the community backlash why hasn't Sony/Arrowhead backed down and removed the PSN requirement? Seems to me all Sony/Arrowhead needs to do is come out and say "We've listened to community feedback and we're removing the requirement for a PSN account to play the game. Linking to a PSN account will remain optional." The last few months have proved that the game works just fine without a PSN account. What makes forcing a PSN account so valuable to Sony that makes it worth it to them to burn their goodwill with their customers? Or is it really just that angry comments on the internet have so little effect that they don't even care?

Arrowhead has said Sony is just ignoring them. They're telling people to get refunds (which Steam is granting!! even though it's technically againt their return policy) and negatively review the game in hopes that Sony will do something... but I doubt it.

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

It goes on. For the third day in a row, the number of negative reviews continues to rise.

I was a bit surprised by this, as I would have expected an initial spike of 1-2 days, followed by an exponential decline.

 

Gamers are used to this by now, so this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
If Steam does not only process refunds for regions without PSN, that is good. Sony probably cares more about money than a healthy player base and refunds hurt their bottom line: 200k negative reviews. If 10% of them ask for a refund, that would be about $800k on the line (don't know how the deals work but some of this could fall back onto arrowhead).

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, jagdtigger said:

Im not so sure, if that were the case they wouldnt sell it in regions where PSN is not available. But that is not what happened.....

December 7th 2023, pre release goes on sale.

Pre-purchase HELLDIVERS™ 2 on Steam (archive.org)

 

-----The age verification is broken on Wayback machine, so time for a new source.---------

HELLDIVERS™ 2 on Steam (archive.is)

Still there on Feb 20....

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

HD2 was always supposed to have PSN requirements and did at launch.

i don't doubt this... i am questioning the reason behind that...

 

Its either the dev

Sony

or both

 

 

and all of the above are extremely bad and anti-consumer, probably also anticompetitive... i know others do it too (blizzard, microsoft, some others probably...) but that doesn't really excuse Sony doing it imho, especially not after what happened to psn around 12 years ago... NEVER FORGET  

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

December 7th 2023, pre release goes on sale.

I was talking about the region restriction which is AFAIK a separate thing on steam..........