Video game maintenance and preservation. How do we feel?

[Jh22899]

Old games, no online functionality. How do we feel?

 

Howdy folks, as a part of a university project, I'm writing about current industry practices regarding the Maintenance and Preservation of older video game titles. At a certain point, I'm writing about the slew of older games that have since lost their online functionality (example: World at War) and the fact that the game is still listed for sale on Steam for £19.99, the same price as when the game first released in 2008.

Steam does not explain that the online functionality is broken, and Activision alongside other companies often outright refuse to allow third parties to create servers and maitain them for these titles, and any who do are often slapped with the heavy side of a legal sledgehammer (im looking at you, nintendo).

Also, in regards to these games, is it okay for companies to shut this functionality down even though at the time, you relied on the boxart of a game to choose if it was for you, most of these boxes praising their online functionality.

How do we feel about this?

Any suggestions for ways to fix the issue for both developers and consumers?

[Dedayog]

14 minutes ago, Jh22899 said:

Old games, no online functionality. How do we feel?

 

Howdy folks, as a part of a university project, I'm writing about current industry practices regarding the Maintenance and Preservation of older video game titles. At a certain point, I'm writing about the slew of older games that have since lost their online functionality (example: World at War) and the fact that the game is still listed for sale on Steam for £19.99, the same price as when the game first released in 2008.

Steam does not explain that the online functionality is broken, and Activision alongside other companies often outright refuse to allow third parties to create servers and maitain them for these titles, and any who do are often slapped with the heavy side of a legal sledgehammer (im looking at you, nintendo).

Also, in regards to these games, is it okay for companies to shut this functionality down even though at the time, you relied on the boxart of a game to choose if it was for you, most of these boxes praising their online functionality.

How do we feel about this?

Any suggestions for ways to fix the issue for both developers and consumers?

Are you writing the paper or asking us for content for it? 

 

A few threads are already on this on the forums, if you need content.

[Mumintroll]

I wrote a post the other day about a youtuber who actually are trying to do something.

 

Ross - Accursed Farms, made a good video when The Crew from Ubisoft got killed.

 

There is a petition to UK goverment ongoing that UK citizen can sign.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/659071/

 

 

 

[SimplyChunk]

I bought The Crew when it came out.  I wasn't sad when they shut the servers off 

 

 

 

I will miss GTA Online though....

[Mumintroll]

1 minute ago, SimplyChunk said:

I bought The Crew when it came out.  I wasn't sad when they shut the servers off 

 

 

 

I will miss GTA Online though....

 

So?

There are hundreds of other games that has been made unplayable by the publishers when they withdrew their support for it.

With The Crew they went a step further and also removed the license key from the customers.

 

This affects also many singleplayer games nowadays, as they might need online connection to work.

The devs can put some effort to remove the online requirements for the singleplayer part, and for the multiplayer part they can from launch include options for players to host their own servers. Remember Diablo 2, When you could play in LAN? Look what Blizzard have done to the remastered edition of it, always online and no LAN....

 

Even if you don't miss The Crew it's the principle.

Are you happy for not owning your games you paid for anymore? Are you content that a publisher and/or service provider can anytime stop supporting a game you've paid for and not need to refund you or have any obligations to you? Are you satisfied that even a publisher can remove your license for the game they've stopped supporting?

 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

42 minutes ago, Mumintroll said:

Ross - Accursed Farms, made a good video when The Crew from Ubisoft got killed.

That video, plus the "Games as a service is fraud" video summarize my thoughts on the topic perfectly. So, rather than attempting a reply to OP, I'll just send him to those  

[dogwitch]

9 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

That video, plus the "Games as a service is fraud" video summarize my thoughts on the topic perfectly. So, rather than attempting a reply to OP, I'll just send him to those  

so he drama videos now...

ok.

 

so the issue is not games itself.

but the software used in the games.

 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

26 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

so he drama videos now...

ok.

 

I'd dare to say that's the weirdest conclusion to draw from it all, but you do you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

(as a side note, those two videos are 4 years apart..)

[BoomerDutch]

I don't mind that online ceases to exist however they should've apply lan possibility into the game so that it can live through lan parties.

 

It is true I've replayed so many old games and I'm always up to play splitscreen or LAN sessions and replay because i don't have to put full efford to finish game but more support secondary player in playful manner.

 

Old games shouldn't die ever.

[SimplyChunk]

2 hours ago, Mumintroll said:

So?

So..I wasn't being confrontational I was just making a silly joke that The Crew, along with a lot of other Ubisoft games, sucks a$$.  I wasn't saying it to say "Well, the games suck so who cares."  I was just saying that the game(s) sucks.

[dogwitch]

5 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I'd dare to say that's the weirdest conclusion to draw from it all, but you do you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

(as a side note, those two videos are 4 years apart..)

he straight up said fable was no playable. pretty much almost ever game(none live service ones)

has exe. and dll  mess with(due to forum rules)to play the game with out the drm.

if you dig into comments. other people pointing out he was stretching the  the point.

even people on reddit and other sites chime in and pointed that out.

 

 

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

hmm i dunno most games can still be played one way or another so while I'm at heart for "game preservation" this current trend seems very clickbaity and not very accurate to me.

 

And if *your* game cant be played anymore,  umm A name it, and B just make your own server? 

 

And yes i know that's not always possible,  but again,  in almost all cases, probably close to 99% it is.

 

don't complain,  learn programming or something is my suggestion therefore.

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

8 hours ago, SimplyChunk said:

will miss GTA Online though....

just make your own server,  problem solved. 

games don't just disappear,  people don't care enough to preserve them, unless they do.

 

ps: I know that's technically probably illegal im just saying its possible and its done,  so saying it can't be done doesn't count ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[dogwitch]

36 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

hmm i dunno most games can still be played one way or another so while I'm at heart for "game preservation" this current trend seems very clickbaity and not very accurate to me.

 

And if *your* game cant be played anymore,  umm A name it, and B just make your own server? 

 

And yes i know that's not always possible,  but again,  in almost all cases, probably close to 99% it is.

 

don't complain,  learn programming or something is my suggestion therefore.

 

 

yeah and that  my issue. it  has every feel of clickbait in said OG video and tt one.

both are small channels. that cater to niche type of views.

then with the people comment overall about the topic.

are the dumbest i ever seen. like just let some one else run it...

not how any of  it works .

you try to explain that to them. many have tried it vielded threats on the matter.

i dont like how the extreme side is using this issue and are the one pushing it.

i was able to track 3 reddit accounts pushing the OG  person video  and the alt accounts they used.

it was getting spam to convention subs etc. not it target people.

in  my mod list on a sub i run. . they keep using the same typo and that how i figure it out.

 

also you notice overall online its barely talk about .

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

43 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

yeah and that  my issue. it  has every feel of clickbait in said OG video and tt one.

both are small channels. that cater to niche type of views.

then with the people comment overall about the topic.

are the dumbest i ever seen. like just let some one else run it...

not how any of  it works .

you try to explain that to them. many have tried it vielded threats on the matter.

i dont like how the extreme side is using this issue and are the one pushing it.

i was able to track 3 reddit accounts pushing the OG  person video  and the alt accounts they used.

it was getting spam to convention subs etc. not it target people.

in  my mod list on a sub i run. . they keep using the same typo and that how i figure it out.

 

also you notice overall online its barely talk about .

 

 

i also seen more accurate videos about this showing "unplayable" games that of course still can be played just fine... truth is in many cases, even when its up they have a playerbase of 10 or so... totally irrelevant outside of the preservation aspect, which yes can be done by everyone inclined to do it.

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

9 hours ago, Mumintroll said:

There is a petition to UK goverment

wouldn't surprise me if this resulted in the opposite tbh lol, seems very ill thought out to "demand" something from an government that can already be done in a somewhat greyzone, its likely any officials asked about this will gladly nope out...

 

tldr: dumb 

[dogwitch]

46 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

i also seen more accurate videos about this showing "unplayable" games that of course still can be played just fine... truth is in many cases, even when its up they have a playerbase of 10 or so... totally irrelevant outside of the preservation aspect, which yes can be done by everyone inclined to do it.

 

 

1 agree. i seen them to.

[Thaldor]

On one hand it sucks that games die and you cannot play them after that.

 

On the other hand, does even all the games (all, meaning every single one, not just the ones you love and like but also those you completely hate are bad and all that) deserve preservation? Remember, saying "all the games need preservation" does include asset flips, the ripoffs and other absolute garbage that is surprising someone managed to even release.

 

Third one is the ability to preserve them. I can give you and example of a "game" that is basicly impossible to be preserved by anyone else than me. It wasn't as much a game but experiment on how to use google maps to create VR game and the server part was basicly scraping Google Maps/Earth for satellite, 3D-city data and streetview for each player and streaming that to the headsets. To preserve that you would have either needed my server that was loaned from Google and directly connected to the Maps network for that data scraping or you would also need to duplicate the around 20 petabytes of Google Maps data. And then I would need to find a way to deliver all that to you, probably as always with these, for free because you didn't take into account that there might be something else than just a database and some calculations on positions and outcomes on the servers, not 20 petabytes worth of data (that HDD/SSD amount you must handle by yourself, good luck).

Would you be willing to invest your money to build custom server infrastructure to preserve one game that you love?

 

This brings us to the point I made when someone was collecting money to sue Ubishit for closing The Crew, why didn't he collect the money to buy the servers from Ubishit and host the game himself with that money if it is that important? Like, it's probably just few thousands per month (probably just ten times that on global scale, wouldn't like to leave out those three people loving it in the Bogo bogo island, would you?) that the servers cost. If the game is that loved collecting that much shouldn't be a problem especially for a youtuber.

 

I am playing a bit devil's advocate here, but that's also just the truth. There is costs to run online games, it is bad design to require online for single players and all that, I actually despise that so much I refuse to even consider getting those kinds of games from Humble Choice or anywhere else, I won't even talk about them because they're not worth even that much of my time. But when in the future it comes to preserving something like EVE:Online or Star Citizens or any other extremely massive projects, who is going to be even able to do that financially? Not every games uses servers that you can host from your PC, a lot of them do, but not all and when they don't we get the problem "who is going to preserve this when it's only a black hole of money and no one is willing to pay the bills?"

[SimplyChunk]

6 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

ust make your own server

I don't roleplay on it.  I play the normal GTA Online

[Jh22899]

Hey guys, glad this got some interest. You don't need to, but if anyones willing to give any opinion whilst taking part in the research for my dissertation, could you sign this consent form and ill be able to email you the actual participation document Should take 10-15 minutes maximum. 5 if you're really mad about the issue  figured a bigger opinion pool would be really helpful. All data gathered will be completely anonymous when utilised in the paper.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfBU1PXR5R1v5Gnx31togg7LadYhkoBeSpSBSOfljiG_DAPyw/viewform?usp=sf_link 

[Jh22899]

17 hours ago, Dedayog said:

Are you writing the paper or asking us for content for it? 

 

A few threads are already on this on the forums, if you need content.

I was mainly asking for opinion, id need people to sign consent forms and take part in a short participation form for me to actually use any of it. Thought it would be an interesting point of discussion regardless  

 

Also if anyone knows any examples of times that this has become a serious discussion in the past, please let me know. Would be heavily appreciated.

[Kisai]

15 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

That video, plus the "Games as a service is fraud" video summarize my thoughts on the topic perfectly. So, rather than attempting a reply to OP, I'll just send him to those  

Exactly.

 

There's only three appropriate solutions:

1. If a game is withdrawn from sale. It must become de-facto public domain.

2. If a game remains for sale but it's only the online component is withdrawn, they must open source the "server" component of the game, and patch the game so that the servers it communicates can be defined by the user.

3. If a game is a MMO, and a subscription, or microtransactions are used to secure "property" within the MMO, then a shutdown of the MMO must result in a refund of ALL property transactions back to the customer.

 

For example, Final Fantasy XIV, you can only secure your property (house) in the game if you remain subscribed. If Square Enix one day decides to shut the whole thing down, and you've been subscribed to it for 10 years, you should be given a refund of $1800 for the destruction of your property.

 

Games like Fortnite, if it's ever shutdown, should have every single Vbucks refunded.

 

Gacha-driven games like Genshin Impact, likewise.

 

The company only gets to keep subscription or microtransaction money if there is no attachment to property in the game. So if you bought a mount? You should get a refund. If you bought a skin? You should get a refund. If you bought anything that persists as an item, you should get a refund.

 

Square Enix, has shut down numerous microtransaction heavy games, and they're not the only ones. They run a game for 6 months or 2 years and then shut it down. For what? A tax write off? 

 

 

 

[SimplyChunk]

29 minutes ago, Kisai said:

For example, Final Fantasy XIV, you can only secure your property (house) in the game if you remain subscribed. If Square Enix one day decides to shut the whole thing down, and you've been subscribed to it for 10 years, you should be given a refund of $1800 for the destruction of your property.

 

Games like Fortnite, if it's ever shutdown, should have every single Vbucks refunded.

You're living in a fantasy world.  There's no way any governing body would force a corp to do this

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, SimplyChunk said:

You're living in a fantasy world.  There's no way any governing body would force a corp to do this

Why not? Eminent domain is a thing.

[Mumintroll]

1 hour ago, SimplyChunk said:

You're living in a fantasy world.  There's no way any governing body would force a corp to do this

We've seen how the EU handled Apple, and forced them to put usb-c on their Iphones.

Going through goverments and courts are the most reasonable way to fight for ownership and consumer rights.