We Downgraded all our PCs to Prove You Don’t Need a New One

[TannerMcCoolman]

We know you probably WANT a new computer, but do you really NEED one? Odds are good that, for most people, a brand new rig is simply not necessary. To prove it, we swapped our writers' sick gaming rigs full of modern hardware like the latest CPUs and raytracing graphics cards, for something a tad more...quaint. Specifically, 6th gen machines from Dell and HP. Will they be able to protect their jobs and meet their deadlines, or will the lag of old hardware stop them in their tracks?

[GamingAndRCs]

Im glad to see someone looking into this! People still think you need a gaming PC for basic computing and it drives me CRAZY.

[CentreMetre]

1 minute ago, GamingAndRCs said:

Im glad to see someone looking into this! People still think you need a gaming PC for basic computing and it drives me CRAZY.

Yep. If it wasnt for wanting to game, i could do everything i need on my 2.5 year old framework laptop, which includes compiling code, so thats some CPU power needed, and it does fine. Well only if im close to a plug point, the battery isnt the best.

[YoungBlade]

Honestly, for modest tasks, modest hardware is still perfectly serviceable. When my mom was really strapped for cash, but needed a desktop, I was able to use some spare parts and eBay upgrades to get her up and running for under $100. The machine has a Core 2 Quad Q9400, 4GB DDR2 RAM, and a Quadro 600 for the GPU - the key piece was a 120GB SSD and having it run Ubuntu 20.04.

 

When she had gotten some degree of of financial stability, I approached her about upgrading it, assuming it had been giving her headaches.

 

Turns out, she's totally fine with it, so rejected the offer - even if I was willing to front the bill. She has no complaints about the speed or what it's able to do on the computer, because for the way she uses her computer, she just doesn't need more. The most intensive thing she ever does is watch a YouTube video or browse Facebook. She also doesn't really multitask beyond rare occasions where she might have a dozen tabs open along with LibreOffice, which the computer can barely handle, sure, but it can handle it.

 

So yeah, I know that a lot of folks who do more basic tasks can get away with way less than a modern system.

[GamingAndRCs]

2 minutes ago, CentreMetre said:

Yep. If it wasnt for wanting to game, i could do everything i need on my 2.5 year old framework laptop, which includes compiling code, so thats some CPU power needed, and it does fine. Well only if im close to a plug point, the battery isnt the best.

Thats great! What do you think of frameworks laptops overall, im looking for a new laptop, and theirs are expensive but look like they are worth it. 

[Tideroo]

Great video ! I definitely agree with it.

 

I have a 7060 Micro at home (Bought it refurbished for 200€) and it performs very well for anything that doesnt rely on a GPU (EG: Jellyfin, VPN, and a web server amongst other things). The CPU wattage is also really low (50-60W under load, else it's around 15W), just like its PSU (rated for 130W). If my calculations are correct it "only" costs me around 30-50€/year to have it running 24/7 which is a big plus as well, nothing else can really beat that.

 

TLDR : Excellent bang for bucks if you don't need a GPU, no need to buy expensive stuff

[podkall]

let's see hardware speed perception, if I asked someone how fast GPU you need for GTAV on Medium settings 1080p, what would be your guess?

[YoungBlade]

1 minute ago, podkall said:

let's see hardware speed perception, if I asked someone how fast GPU you need for GTAV on Medium settings 1080p, what would be your guess?

I'll take a guess without looking up system requirements or performance comparisons on YouTube. I would guess that, for 60fps-ish gaming, you would only need an RX 550 2GB or GT 1030 GDDR5 or equivalent.

[visitor2015]

The reason those old OptiPlex machines with Kaby Lake and below generation processors now flood the used market is, that large companies or government institutions are switching to Windows 11. Those old machines are not suitable for that OS anymore, because Microsoft does not support those old CPUs or lack of TPM2.0.

Also those old machines will not get any modern BIOS or driver updates anymore. From a security point of view this might be a problem and unneccesary liability when those vunerable machines are still in operation. If the warranty contract or lease has expired any repair for those machines might be either expensive and/or taking too long.

One big advantage of those prebuilt machines is - as Linus mentioned - one saves a lot of time and effort when deploying those machines to a large number of users.  With just dozens of employees in house and hand made computers might work, but if you have hundreds or thousands of employees one might lift some weight off the IT department.

With warranty and service options available from those companies like Dell, HP, Lenovo etc. you just call them when a problem with the hardware arises and they will fix the issue for you within that maintenance or warranty period.

Those Micro models in a 1L form factor are also nice devices for the average office person that just does some light office, mail and browsing tasks. They don't consume a lot of electical power and don't waste valuable space on the desk.

Those old shown devices also make up for nice Linux machines.

[podkall]

3 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

I'll take a guess without looking up system requirements or performance comparisons on YouTube. I would guess that, for 60fps-ish gaming, you would only need an RX 550 2GB or GT 1030 GDDR5 or equivalent.

yeah basically, the GT 1030 maybe doesn't give constant above 60fps, but it's probably the bottom line with the RX550,

 

and then something close to GTX 1050 or GTX 750ti would be quite great, in fact I owned GTX 1050 and it was capable of playing various games quite smoothly

[TR094]

atleast they didnt make their pc's use onboard graphics

[Uttamattamakin]

35 minutes ago, GamingAndRCs said:

Im glad to see someone looking into this! People still think you need a gaming PC for basic computing and it drives me CRAZY.

I was just discussing this with some colleagues the other day.  Studnets will tell us they "can't afford a computer".  Then borrow one from the school only to .... show up with a top of the line MacBook Pro or a Gaming Laptop so THICC it could be a Kardashian.   When in reality a mini PC or low cost tablet or laptop from the school bookstore would do everything they need for school. 

 

18 minutes ago, podkall said:

let's see hardware speed perception, if I asked someone how fast GPU you need for GTAV on Medium settings 1080p, what would be your guess?

I need at least an Nvidia A5000 Ada generation for that. 

 

JK I think that any APU in any Laptop made in the last two years could do that handily. 
 

[CentreMetre]

12 minutes ago, GamingAndRCs said:

Thats great! What do you think of frameworks laptops overall, im looking for a new laptop, and theirs are expensive but look like they are worth it. 

Ill be honest i really only got it for the principle of it being repairable, which was a real factor since batteries dont seem to like me so i can more easily replace that, and i wanted the ability to tinker.

I also got it for the possibility of using the system board itself as some sort of server/nas in the future if/when i get a new laptop. I also want to look into using the battery currently in it as some sort of external battery bank with a 3d printed enclosure to use for my phone or other devices to charge, and 'steal' electric of my uni. 

 

If you dont have the money or that money can be better used, to be completely honest, i would probably just go for a cheaper non framework. 

 

(I cant speak for the latest frame work (the 16 i think it is), i got the 13 (or 11, i cant remember the exact numbers for the models, it was oct 2022), but there is a shortcircuit on the frame 16 by Alex so definitely check that out.)

 

As mentioned before in my last post the battery is getting to be bad, even when i first used it with ubuntu the battery didnt last long, but theres defintily a decrease in use before havcing to recharge. Maybe becuase of the fact that i keep it on charge over night since if i charge it up before bed, then take it off charge, its lost about 20% overnight. I think even Louis Rossman(n) mentioned that in a video about it. 

 

Another bugbear (that isnt just my specific laptop) is that i cannot power on without being plugged into with a USB. Even just plugging into my phone allows me to power on, so im not sure whats happening with that, i dont think that happened when i got it but it wasnt long until that started happening. The cmos isnt gone since it keeps time. There are some possible fixes i havent got around to trying yet.

 

Also recently, maybe just since ive used it more in general, the fans sound like theyre gonna take off and my laptop is gonna end up in the ceiling, not sure whats causing that, maybe linux mint.

 

So if you can comfortably afford it, and like the possible upgrade path, and dont mind the possible bugs because of the relative newness, and just general want to support what framework is doing with repairable electronics, i would get it it.  

 

Sorry for the rambly reply, this is just my personal experience.

[podkall]

3 minutes ago, TR094 said:

atleast they didnt make their pc's use onboard graphics

some onboard graphics aren't terrible, but you must be looking at recent CPUs

[podkall]

1 minute ago, Uttamattamakin said:

I need at least an Nvidia A5000 Ada generation for that. 

 

JK I think that any APU in any Laptop made in the last two years could do that handily.

isn't 2022+ CPU with good APU kind of expensive?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

25 minutes ago, podkall said:

let's see hardware speed perception, if I asked someone how fast GPU you need for GTAV on Medium settings 1080p, what would be your guess?

you can do that on a rx480, ik that first hand

[manikyath]

32 minutes ago, visitor2015 said:

The reason those old OptiPlex machines with Kaby Lake and below generation processors now flood the used market is, that large companies or government institutions are switching to Windows 11. Those old machines are not suitable for that OS anymore, because Microsoft does not support those old CPUs or lack of TPM2.0.

well no.. most large businesses just replace when systems are 'n' years old (usually 4 years), and they end up in the hands of people who flip them for a quick buck after tossing out the disks.

 

this kind of office computer is in fairly constant supply each hardware generation, if you know where to look.

 

EDIT: PS, i came here to see if there were any bottomfeeders that didnt make it past the intro before going "LTT downhill so much they have to sell computers to stay afloat"

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

27 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

So yeah, I know that a lot of folks who do more basic tasks can get away with way less than a modern system.

That's why I still rock a i5-5200U notebook.

Still useable for office tasks.

 

Other half of the truth is I am looked to this device: I need a TrackPoint  and I am not willing to trade an essential feature, good keyboard, for amenities like a better screen, longer battery lifetime or faster program start times. Current gen. Lenovo keyboards are awful.

 

 

[visitor2015]

3 minutes ago, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

 Current gen. Lenovo keyboards are awful.

Then you never have seen a current gen. Dell keyboard.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, podkall said:

let's see hardware speed perception, if I asked someone how fast GPU you need for GTAV on Medium settings 1080p, what would be your guess?

RTX 3060, at most. A 3090 runs 4K at 60fps while only using like 80% of it.

 

The problem with the video, is it's scripted. I'm sure it would have taken longer to capture video of the employees actually pointing out the problems as they happened, but because it's pretty much scripted, and they got the preowned stuff from a wholesaler of preowned systems, they couldn't be brutal about it.

 

Like, the people working on video, need a high end GPU. The CPU probably is not holding it back. The people not working on video editing or gaming at all, likely could be given M2 macmini's and they'd be happier than the PC experience.

 

But that doesn't mean the systems work with their existing hardware, and that is 90% of the reason why companies single-vendor their upgrades. If they already needed a desktop, they were not going to be in for a good time on anything less than an 8th gen, because Windows 11, and even then, it's far more likely that anyone who didn't need a powerful system was already using a laptop and Linus had to actually find staff that would be willing to upset their workflow for a video. Video editing is usually "not that hard" to move workflows from especially since no LTT video has anything a basic Davinci Resolve install couldn't do. They clearly aren't going into Davinci's Fusion workflow and building/importing 3D assets.

 

Personally, I would be greatly disappointed if LTT doesn't eat their own dogfood. Keep building your own systems except for servers (which you're hard pressed to do since there's like, three vendors that sell servers, and only one lets you BYO to the same level as a desktop.) Any system used by staff that is not a laptop, they should just build, but maybe make content out of that and ask the employee what they think they will need and build to that spec rather than giving out i9-xxxxxk's and RTX 4090Ti's to everyone. Chances are unless the video people want to start building 3D virtual sets for LTT, they would be better off with two RTX 4060's so they have more video decode engines than a single 4090.

 

 

 

[podkall]

6 minutes ago, Kisai said:

RTX 3060, at most. A 3090 runs 4K at 60fps while only using like 80% of it.

you could get away with way slower GPU, I did say Medium 1080p not 4K

 

6 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The problem with the video, is it's scripted. I'm sure it would have taken longer to capture video of the employees actually pointing out the problems as they happened, but because it's pretty much scripted, and they got the preowned stuff from a wholesaler of preowned systems, they couldn't be brutal about it.

why couldn't they?

 

6 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Personally, I would be greatly disappointed if LTT doesn't eat their own dogfood. Keep building your own systems except for servers (which you're hard pressed to do since there's like, three vendors that sell servers, and only one lets you BYO to the same level as a desktop.) Any system used by staff that is not a laptop, they should just build, but maybe make content out of that and ask the employee what they think they will need and build to that spec rather than giving out i9-xxxxxk's and RTX 4090Ti's to everyone. Chances are unless the video people want to start building 3D virtual sets for LTT, they would be better off with two RTX 4060's so they have more video decode engines than a single 4090.

do they actually give everyone 4090's? I doubt a tech channel like LTT would be that stupid to buy unnecessarily expensive PC just so someone can write scripts in Word documents.

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

1 hour ago, visitor2015 said:

Then you never have seen a current gen. Dell keyboard.

True. 

They have ditched the TrackPoint so have I ditched my interest in Latitudes as a daily driver.

[tkitch]

2 hours ago, TannerMcCoolman said:

We know you probably WANT a new computer, but do you really NEED one? Odds are good that, for most people, a brand new rig is simply not necessary. To prove it, we swapped our writers' sick gaming rigs full of modern hardware like the latest CPUs and raytracing graphics cards, for something a tad more...quaint. Specifically, 6th gen machines from Dell and HP. Will they be able to protect their jobs and meet their deadlines, or will the lag of old hardware stop them in their tracks?

Honestly I'm kinda disappointed in this video.

 

Not for the topic:  It's a truefax that people can easily be fine with PCs that're a few years old, and buying brand new can be a lot of money for fairly little gain.

 

But:

Nothing before intel 8th gen supports Windows 11.  
And Win10 goes EoL next year.  And every single box on here does NOT officially support windows 11.

 

(Yes there are work arounds, but the people doing this aren't enthusiasts, they're gonna generally be noobs.)

So, they're buying into "soon to be obsolete" hardware.

[silentdragon95]

I wonder if any of the weird glitches they encountered might have been because they swapped the SSDs from their original workstations into the refurbished ones. Yes, Windows is pretty good at dealing with this nowadays, but there can absolutely still be minor driver or stability issues.

 

That being said, I do like that they came to the conclusion that even 10 year old systems are perfectly fine for most everyday tasks. I mean heck, there is also still a Core2Quad machine deployed in the family, not because its owner couldn't afford to upgrade, he's just a bit stingy and also doesn't really need to - all he ever really does is check his e-mails, write documents in Word and check a few websites, which works fine. Apart from that I outfitted some family members with refurbished Fujitsu LifeBooks years ago, running 4th (and one 6th gen) Intel CPUs, and they are also still in use as they work fine. The worst thing about them is their screens, but to be honest the rather low resolution is way less of an issue for users who would struggle to be able to read anything at 1080p on a laptop screen anyway.

 

Even my "new" laptop that I just recently bought for my masters degree is a 4-year old refurbished Dell Precision 5540. Sure, way newer than anything I mentioned so far, but I specifically needed a laptop with 32GB of RAM and good CPU performance because I'm going to have to work with various VMs and virtual networks a bunch. I could have gotten something newer or fancier, but I already have a very powerful desktop PC at home which obviously isn't going anywhere, so I simply didn't want to spend >1000€ on another computer - the Dell was half that.

 

Although a lot of these old machines will probably get upgraded when support for Windows 10 ends. I know you can install Windows 11 with an easy workaround, for now, but I simply don't want the headache of dealing with support for half of my family when Microsoft eventually does something that actually breaks compatibility with older CPUs or when something doesn't quite work like it used to. It may never happen, but I'm not going to accept that risk on behalf of someone else (even though I'd personally be fine with it).

[AndreiArgeanu]

1 hour ago, Helpful Tech Witch said:

you can do that on a rx480, ik that first hand

RX480 is quite powerful actually. I have an RX480 8gb red devil still laying around, that I used to have in my system and if I remember correctly I could easily do GTA 5 with max settings at pretty good framerates.