What are your thoughts on an integrated phase-change cooling case with these features and how much would you pay for it?

[Darsim]

I have been designing a case that integrates phase-change cooling for the last couple of years and I have tried to solve as many of the problems that I found we face when we try to go toward sub-ambient or sub-zero cooling. So, here are the key features of the case, and please give your thoughts on it:

 

• The case will have an integrated phase-change cooling system that works as a chiller for sub-zero cooling for both CPU and GPU. You will have the option to run the phase-change cooler continuously or in high-demanding situations the chiller to kick in. You can turn on and off the chilling system anytime you want switching between sub-zero cooling and normal liquid cooling.

 

• Removing the need to insulate the components of the PC entirely. One of the most annoying things about cooling PC components to anything lower than room temperature is condensation. Whenever you try to chill a PC, you have to insulate everything that cools down below ambient temperature. You have to use a kneaded eraser on the motherboard around the CPU. You also need to insulate many things with foam which takes the fun out of cooling your PC to sub-ambient temperatures. So, I have designed the case in a way that eliminates the need to insulate any component of the PC. you can change any of the PC parts easily and none of the parts are ruined with insulation material like kneaded eraser or Vaseline in the CPU socket.

 

• Usually, phase-change cooling comes with the drawback of the loud noise that comes from the AC compressor. So, to reduce the noise, I have designed a patent-pending casing for the AC compressor to reduce its noise to be equal to or even lower than the noise generated by conventional PC fans. This means that the case will be as quiet as a normal desktop PC with let's say Noctua NF-A12 fans at mid-range speed.

 

• The case will also have an integrated test bench that holds the motherboard, GPU, PSU, three 3.5” drives, and two 2.5” drives. You can insert the test bench into and out of the case with a couple of quick releases. It makes the building of the case very easy or even changing parts.

 

• This case eliminates dust on the main components of the case especially the parts that are on the test bench. The motherboard, GPU, and the drives will be as clean as the day the PC was built.

 

•  The case includes two 360mm or 240mm radiators based on configuration, a phase-change cooling system that contains an (AC compressor, condenser, heat exchanger), reservoir, and water pump combo, and between 9 to 12 fans.

[Eigenvektor]

23 minutes ago, Darsim said:

I have been designing a case that integrates phase-change cooling for the last couple of years…

Are we talking functional prototype or theoretical design?

 

Personally, not really interested. Regular off-the-shelf case with air cooling works well enough for my use case. While the features sound nice, it's just not something I see myself needing for day to day operation. I would assume it's mostly interesting to people who're into hard core overclocking that like to tinker with their computer more than they use it to get things done. So you'd likely need to price it accordingly for a niche market.

[jaslion]

Sounds nice but basically none of these features are really needed as just a air cooled box does fine 99.99% of the time

[RONOTHAN##]

1 hour ago, Darsim said:

So, I have designed the case in a way that eliminates the need to insulate any component of the PC. you can change any of the PC parts easily and none of the parts are ruined with insulation material like kneaded eraser or Vaseline in the CPU socket.

May I ask how? Only two ways I can think of to accomplish this are either to cool the entire system in a sealed box which creates it's own mess of issues (not all parts of a computer like being sub-zero, as well as being insanely inefficient) or to have it with a very effective dehumidifier for inside the case which is not practical to work either. 

 

This is something that's going to be a niche within a niche. It's going to have to be for the most hardcore of all PC builders and overclockers, and even then many of the people who would want something like this and are willing to deal with the massive power efficiency disadvantages of it are also the people who don't care about noise in general and would gladly salvage an old window AC unit to do this sort of thing, especially since that can be done for the neighborhood of $200-300 while a case like this will likely cost over double that. I'd be happy to see if it ever releases, but then again some of the engineering claims in here don't really seem practical.

[porina]

Two of the points suggest to me you sealed the main mobo chamber and include water absorber. That way, no dust, no condensation. But you still have to ditch any heat generated within it.

 

I did own a mass produced phase cooler in the past, but too long ago. I can't even remember if it was a prommie or vapochill which were the two off the shelf options of the time.

 

What temps are you aiming for at what power level? Whatever unit I had couldn't keep a Northwood 1.8A at 2.8 GHz sub zero under load.

[RevGAM]

1 hour ago, Darsim said:

I have been designing a case that integrates phase-change cooling for the last couple of years and I have tried to solve as many of the problems that I found we face when we try to go toward sub-ambient or sub-zero cooling. So, here are the key features of the case, and please give your thoughts on it:

 

• The case will have an integrated phase-change cooling system that works as a chiller for sub-zero cooling for both CPU and GPU. You will have the option to run the phase-change cooler continuously or in high-demanding situations the chiller to kick in. You can turn on and off the chilling system anytime you want switching between sub-zero cooling and normal liquid cooling.

 

• Removing the need to insulate the components of the PC entirely. One of the most annoying things about cooling PC components to anything lower than room temperature is condensation. Whenever you try to chill a PC, you have to insulate everything that cools down below ambient temperature. You have to use a kneaded eraser on the motherboard around the CPU. You also need to insulate many things with foam which takes the fun out of cooling your PC to sub-ambient temperatures. So, I have designed the case in a way that eliminates the need to insulate any component of the PC. you can change any of the PC parts easily and none of the parts are ruined with insulation material like kneaded eraser or Vaseline in the CPU socket.

 

• Usually, phase-change cooling comes with the drawback of the loud noise that comes from the AC compressor. So, to reduce the noise, I have designed a patent-pending casing for the AC compressor to reduce its noise to be equal to or even lower than the noise generated by conventional PC fans. This means that the case will be as quiet as a normal desktop PC with let's say Noctua NF-A12 fans at mid-range speed.

 

• The case will also have an integrated test bench that holds the motherboard, GPU, PSU, three 3.5” drives, and two 2.5” drives. You can insert the test bench into and out of the case with a couple of quick releases. It makes the building of the case very easy or even changing parts.

 

• This case eliminates dust on the main components of the case especially the parts that are on the test bench. The motherboard, GPU, and the drives will be as clean as the day the PC was built.

 

•  The case includes two 360mm or 240mm radiators based on configuration, a phase-change cooling system that contains an (AC compressor, condenser, heat exchanger), reservoir, and water pump combo, and between 9 to 12 fans.

Sounds fascinating! I haven't done any extreme computing,  but that case would seemingly resolve some unique challenges I face in testing.

 

If I could even control the temperature in the case, that would make it even more appealing.

 

If it's easy to build in, that excites me.

 

You need to post about this on overclocking forums, too, because they would be the most interested.

 

Also, aside from OCers and people like me, those who live in areas with high temps and no A/C, especially as CPU heat continues to climb. 

 

I can't give direct advice on price but you obviously have to factor in how much it costs you in time, labor and parts. Then you have to decide who your target audience is: a small niche, which will cause you to have to charge more, industry and/or mainstream users. Industry has the numbers but do they need it? If you can price it competitively, it should end up selling a lot with the right marketing strategy.  If course, competitively pricing it means you have to sell more than if you sell it to a niche/industries.

 

Is this still in the design phase, so you have a prototype, or are you ready to start selling? How long from order to delivery? Photos?

[Darsim]

10 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

May I ask how? Only two ways I can think of to accomplish this are either to cool the entire system in a sealed box which creates it's own mess of issues (not all parts of a computer like being sub-zero, as well as being insanely inefficient) or to have it with a very effective dehumidifier for inside the case which is not practical to work either. 

 

This is something that's going to be a niche within a niche. It's going to have to be for the most hardcore of all PC builders and overclockers, and even then many of the people who would want something like this and are willing to deal with the massive power efficiency disadvantages of it are also the people who don't care about noise in general and would gladly salvage an old window AC unit to do this sort of thing, especially since that can be done for the neighborhood of $200-300 while a case like this will likely cost over double that. I'd be happy to see if it ever releases, but then again some of the engineering claims in here don't really seem practical.

The CPU and GPU are chilled when you need them to be chilled in a semi-sealed chamber and temperature and humidity control are done with a very cheap multi-functional heat exchanger that I have designed that works with the phase-change cooling loop itself. Even though the heat exchanger will be a custom design, it will be very cheap and easy to make.

 

For the case being niche, I thought about it and realized that at the beginning when I designed it. So, I have designed the case so that you can add or remove the phase-change cooling system and still have the dust-free chamber and integrated test bench functionality. The case provides you with the option of adding a phase change cooling system without any hassle in the future when you want to spend time and money on it.

 

For the inefficiencies, As I talked about before, your power consumption can be the same as a normal liquid-cooled PC when it's idle. But when you do anything performance-demanding, the phase-change cooling system will kick in and you will get higher performance from your CPU or GPU. let's say that you start a render or want to start playing a game at a higher quality or refresh rate, you can make the phase-change cooling system kick in and chill the components. You only consume more power when you need it.

[Darsim]

12 hours ago, Eigenvektor said:

Are we talking functional prototype or theoretical design?

 

Personally, not really interested. Regular off-the-shelf case with air cooling works well enough for my use case. While the features sound nice, it's just not something I see myself needing for day to day operation. I would assume it's mostly interesting to people who're into hard core overclocking that like to tinker with their computer more than they use it to get things done. So you'd likely need to price it accordingly for a niche market.

I already have the Beta design for the case.

 

I actually got into designing this case because I knew that many people hate the hassle of working with sub-zero cooling. That's why I designed it in a way that it will be plug-and-play. You will build your PC on the integrated test bench in the same way that you will build a normal PC and insert the PC into the main cases chamber afterward. You don't have to deal with anything cooling-related when you build a PC in a case like this. Everything cooling-related will be ready to use and you only need to install the CPU, Motherboard, RAM, GPU, Drives, and PSU.

[Darsim]

11 hours ago, porina said:

Two of the points suggest to me you sealed the main mobo chamber and include water absorber. That way, no dust, no condensation. But you still have to ditch any heat generated within it.

 

I did own a mass produced phase cooler in the past, but too long ago. I can't even remember if it was a prommie or vapochill which were the two off the shelf options of the time.

 

What temps are you aiming for at what power level? Whatever unit I had couldn't keep a Northwood 1.8A at 2.8 GHz sub zero under load.

Yes, it has a semi-sealed main chamber. Everything related to cooling and dehumidification inside the case is done with a custom multi-functional heat exchanger.

For the temps, I aimed for sub-zero cooling and the precise temperature achieved solely depends on the system you build and the heat output of the system. But the phase-change cooler will have between 300W to 400W of power consumption and 900W to 1200W of cooling capacity.

[Darsim]

11 hours ago, RevGAM said:

Sounds fascinating! I haven't done any extreme computing,  but that case would seemingly resolve some unique challenges I face in testing.

 

If I could even control the temperature in the case, that would make it even more appealing.

 

If it's easy to build in, that excites me.

 

You need to post about this on overclocking forums, too, because they would be the most interested.

 

Also, aside from OCers and people like me, those who live in areas with high temps and no A/C, especially as CPU heat continues to climb. 

 

I can't give direct advice on price but you obviously have to factor in how much it costs you in time, labor and parts. Then you have to decide who your target audience is: a small niche, which will cause you to have to charge more, industry and/or mainstream users. Industry has the numbers but do they need it? If you can price it competitively, it should end up selling a lot with the right marketing strategy.  If course, competitively pricing it means you have to sell more than if you sell it to a niche/industries.

 

Is this still in the design phase, so you have a prototype, or are you ready to start selling? How long from order to delivery? Photos?

I have already posted on some OverClocking forums and I'm looking for responses. 

Actually, one of the main reasons phase-change cooling attracted me was because I live in a very high temperature like it reaches 50C in the summer. 

For the pricing, I realized that the phase-change cooling market is niche and I wanted it to give access to a broader range of desktop PC users. I have also made the phase-change cooling system modular so that I can sell the case without the phase-change cooling system and give customers the ability to add it later.

[Blue4130]

10 minutes ago, Darsim said:

I have already posted on some OverClocking forums and I'm looking for responses. 

Actually, one of the main reasons phase-change cooling attracted me was because I live in a very high temperature like it reaches 50C in the summer. 

For the pricing, I realized that the phase-change cooling market is niche and I wanted it to give access to a broader range of desktop PC users. I have also made the phase-change cooling system modular so that I can sell the case without the phase-change cooling system and give customers the ability to add it later.

Would love to see pictures of this thing.

[freeagent]

14 hours ago, porina said:

I can't even remember if it was a prommie or vapochill

I think it was a prommie.. but I could be wrong

 

It was something that I wanted to get into, but never did. And even now.. nah.. unless the price was a steal.

[thrasher_565]

the little devil case had this but looks like there out of stock. but at $1800 for just the cooling nt.

[Darsim]

For my personal PC, I looked at that case but I still had to deal with insulation and compressor noise.

 

[Darsim]

6 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

Would love to see pictures of this thing.

I actually can share some pics of it.

It has two variants, one horizontal and the other vertical.

 

[RevGAM]

11 hours ago, Darsim said:

I have already posted on some OverClocking forums and I'm looking for responses. 

Actually, one of the main reasons phase-change cooling attracted me was because I live in a very high temperature like it reaches 50C in the summer. 

For the pricing, I realized that the phase-change cooling market is niche and I wanted it to give access to a broader range of desktop PC users. I have also made the phase-change cooling system modular so that I can sell the case without the phase-change cooling system and give customers the ability to add it later.

I hope you'll update us on this.

 

When do you think you'll be able to start production? I assume those are digital art images? Looks very interesting!

 

Is the PSU in the temperature controlled area or outside of it? How big can the PSU be?

[Darsim]

16 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

I hope you'll update us on this.

 

When do you think you'll be able to start production? I assume those are digital art images? Looks very interesting!

I hope so. It's a CAD design at the moment.

[Blue4130]

5 hours ago, Darsim said:

I actually can share some pics of it.

It has two variants, one horizontal and the other vertical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the goal is to lower the ambient temp of the entire chamber, why is there a water block on the cpu/gpu? Wouldn't air coolers work more effectively?

[freeagent]

19 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

Wouldn't air coolers work more effectively?

Yes, one without heatpipes..

[RevGAM]

26 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

If the goal is to lower the ambient temp of the entire chamber, why is there a water block on the cpu/gpu? Wouldn't air coolers work more effectively?

It seems to me that the block is a necessary component of the system. How else can the phase change cooler work if there's no way to take the heat to it? My guess is that the thinner chamber houses that. 

[Darsim]

1 hour ago, Blue4130 said:

If the goal is to lower the ambient temp of the entire chamber, why is there a water block on the cpu/gpu? Wouldn't air coolers work more effectively?

Actually No, the temperature of the chamber is held at room temperature to cool the less power-hungry components inside the chamber such as VRM, SSD, and so on. but the chilling of the CPU and GPU will be done directly. if you cool down the whole chamber, it would be very inefficient and you would not be able to reach sub-zero cooling.

[Darsim]

43 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

It seems to me that the block is a necessary component of the system. How else can the phase change cooler work if there's no way to take the heat to it? My guess is that the thinner chamber houses that. 

Yes, it is correct, the heat will be outputted to the thinner chamber. but at the same time, the phase-change will chill a liquid and the liquid will chill the CPU and GPU. I have done that because of a lot of research and it made the most sense. to be able to achieve everything that I have talked about in the feature and solve even more problems very cheaply and efficiently, the phase-change cooler chills a liquid and the liquid cools the CPU and GPU to sub-zero cooling.

[Blue4130]

9 minutes ago, Darsim said:

Actually No, the temperature of the chamber is held at room temperature to cool the less power-hungry components inside the chamber such as VRM, SSD, and so on. but the chilling of the CPU and GPU will be done directly. if you cool down the whole chamber, it would be very inefficient and you would not be able to reach sub-zero cooling.

Then how does your design negate the need for vasaline and insulating the cpu? The CPU will get lower than ambient temp and cause condensation.

[RevGAM]

1 hour ago, Darsim said:

Yes, it is correct, the heat will be outputted to the thinner chamber. but at the same time, the phase-change will chill a liquid and the liquid will chill the CPU and GPU. I have done that because of a lot of research and it made the most sense. to be able to achieve everything that I have talked about in the feature and solve even more problems very cheaply and efficiently, the phase-change cooler chills a liquid and the liquid cools the CPU and GPU to sub-zero cooling.

What are the dimensions of the PC chamber?

[Darsim]

1 hour ago, Blue4130 said:

Then how does your design negate the need for vasaline and insulating the cpu? The CPU will get lower than ambient temp and cause condensation.

There is a multi-functional heat exchanger that I have designed that works as dehumidifier inside the chamber. The way I have designed it, it always dehumidifies the air inside the chamber to have a lower dew point than the CPU and GPU will get. For example, lets say that we will cool down the CPU with the chiller to -20C, the dew point of the air inside the chamber at that moment will automatically be lower than -20C because of the way I have designed the multi-functional heat exchanger. By the way this happens automatically without the needs of controlling it with sensors and that stuff.