discussion Your Car is Watching You | What will happen when dumb-cars are outlawed?

[venomtail]

A lot of NA perspectives, very different with how keeping old cars alive is still a valid alternative. Guess high petrol, diesel prices, car pollution tax and harsh winters force the hand in buying new cards every so often over here.

[Thepyrodex]

6 hours ago, htimsenyawed said:

I daily a 2002 Volvo. It’s more comfortable than any of the cheap new cars, and cheap used cars.
 

Better shocks and suspension? A glance at FCP and I can get a Bilstein B4 kit for $550. 
 

My phone has GPS if I need it, but I haven’t been more than 10 miles from my house in my small town in 8 months. Sirius XM is just another subscription to pay for. Autopilot? Tried a Toyota with it, scared the shit out of me when the steering wheel jerked in a curve. Driving aids? Like the blind spot thing? Or a backup camera? I have my mirrors adjusted properly and I have a lower belt line than modern vehicles. 
 

Power? I have plenty of torque and horsepower and a smooth enough ride that if I don’t sit the cruise control, I’ll be running 110mph thinking I’m running 70mph. So, no thanks. 
 

Plus, I can turn a wrench on it myself without needing a $10,000 Snap-On scanner.

 

I forgot to add this, but here is a picture of my Volvo’s underside. Virtually no rust. 

Tell me your not from the north east with no words.

[Dedayog]

 

10 hours ago, htimsenyawed said:

I daily a 2002 Volvo. It’s more comfortable than any of the cheap new cars, and cheap used cars.
 

Better shocks and suspension? A glance at FCP and I can get a Bilstein B4 kit for $550. 
 

My phone has GPS if I need it, but I haven’t been more than 10 miles from my house in my small town in 8 months. Sirius XM is just another subscription to pay for. Autopilot? Tried a Toyota with it, scared the shit out of me when the steering wheel jerked in a curve. Driving aids? Like the blind spot thing? Or a backup camera? I have my mirrors adjusted properly and I have a lower belt line than modern vehicles. 
 

Power? I have plenty of torque and horsepower and a smooth enough ride that if I don’t sit the cruise control, I’ll be running 110mph thinking I’m running 70mph. So, no thanks. 
 

Plus, I can turn a wrench on it myself without needing a $10,000 Snap-On scanner.

 

I forgot to add this, but here is a picture of my Volvo’s underside. Virtually no rust. 

Lol, your argument is that you drive a premium car?  Nice.

 

Of course it's better than cheap new cars because it started MUCH more premium, and hasn't aged out yet.

 

Curious where my 2021 Volvo will be in 20 years.  Still better than Ford/GM/Chevy easily.

[Mark Kaine]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:25 PM, VirusDumb said:

They have been doing it for a long time ever since India opened it's market but somehow some select "Indian" Companies which usually sell rebadged Chinese Electric Mopeds and tech accessories like Smart watches, earphones, keyboards, keyboards, mouse,even motherboards and Shitty PSUs are getting a green light to bring them here from China and rebadged them here, while only foreign well known companies like Logitech, Lenovo, HP, MSI, etc are facing those import fees while selling their stuff here,

 

recently Jio (which is run by the richest family in the country and ofcourse has good ties with politicians) started selling rebadged chromebooks in India as "the most affordable value of money laptops in the market"

 

And suspiciously government announced they'll ban the import of laptops right after it's launch

 

Leading to the conspiracy theory all over social media, that the Ambani family made them do it

 

 

So the general consensus is that it's really not about environment or local manufacturing, but it's just industrialists lobbying and forcing the government to do all this stuff

well yeah because if they rebadge the stuff its "indian" suddenly,  a perfectly fine loophole. nothing stopping logitech etc to do the same

 

 

[Rocketdog2112]

On 9/26/2023 at 7:45 AM, Dedayog said:

Who makes the cars you drive?  Because Ford, Chevy and Dodge can't make a reliable 20 year car for shit in the US.  Sure, the engine make get 500k miles, but the rest of the car falls apart around you.

 

I do find it interesting you're on a tech site but refuse to let tech enter your car.  Do you not enjoy new features and creature comforts?  I've done 14 years in a 2007 Infiniti G35 and I do love the car but they simply don't last.

 

is there a reason you don't want GPS, Sirius XM, better shocks/suspension, driving aids, autopilot, more raw fucking power?  

 

 

I own both a 2005 Toyota 4Runner with 260,000+ miles, and a 2007 Toyota Tundra with 245,000+ miles and neither of them is "falling apart". 

 

Items such as driving aids and autopilot are turning up and coming new drivers into morons relying on electronics instead of looking over their shoulder when entering traffic. 

 

People nowadays are relying on electronics to steer the car, stop the car, tell the driver they are departing their lane due to being distracted because they are texting. A little light in the mirror because you can't be bothered to check your mirrors or look over your shoulder. People actually sleeping while the car is on so called autopilot. 

 

Ask yourself... Do all these new features make a person a better driver? 

 

Having the actual skill of driving an automobile has long since died. 

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

Items such as driving aids and autopilot are turning up and coming new drivers into morons relying on electronics instead of looking over their shoulder when entering traffic. 

 

People nowadays are relying on electronics to steer the car, stop the car, tell the driver they are departing their lane due to being distracted because they are texting. A little light in the mirror because you can't be bothered to check your mirrors or look over your shoulder. People actually sleeping while the car is on so called autopilot. 

Let's be clear, people were doing these kinds of things all the time before the advent of blind spot monitoring, lane assist, etc.

 

Hell you still see it, with drivers driving cars that don't have these features (most older cars don't), and people still swerve into other lanes, ride the line, don't check their blind spot, fail to stop and crash into a gridlocked car, etc.

2 hours ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

Ask yourself... Do all these new features make a person a better driver? 

No. But not having them doesn't make them better either.

 

Obviously the real solution is tighter licensing requirements for drivers, harder tests, etc, but the reality is that these safety features DO make it safer for everyone else on the road.

[LAwLz]

Threads like these always remind me of listening to religious debates.

I have never understood why cars seem to be such an emotionally loaded subject for so many people. People always seem to get extremely worked up and angry about <brand X> or <new feature> or <new regulation> whenever it comes to cars.

And everyone always talks about how awesome they are at driving, and how bad everyone else is (fun and scary statistic, 8/10 male drivers in the US consider themselves above average drivers, and 73% of all drivers in the US consider themselves above average). I don't know what it is, but something about cars makes a lot of people have a completely warped view of reality and act pretty much purely on emotions.

[Thepyrodex]

On 9/29/2023 at 10:45 AM, htimsenyawed said:

There’s a New England? Ew.

 

But, seriously, I’m from Southeast Kentucky and when it snows, even a dusting, they pour the salt out on the roads here. My woman’s Explorer underside is a rust bucket and it’s a 2012 vs a 2002 Volvo.

Well that’s pretty close, not as “constant” a dumping of salt as the New England but close for sure.  It’s more about how they cars are cared for at that point IMO

[Techstorm970]

At least in the US, having a vehicle gives you a huge amount of control over where you go and when.  No reliance on a bus that may or may not show up when you need it because somebody may or may not have shown up to work on time today (if at all).  To your average commuter, that's very valuable.

 

Piggybacking on what some others have said, they really don't make cars like they used to.  My dad bought a 2007 Kia Spectra a long time ago.  That car was handed down to me in 2018.  And very soon here, it's about to be my sister's.  A few of the electronics don't work anymore (e.g. letting the pump auto-fill the tank overfills the tank because that sensor is broken and replacing it is a bitch), but it is still a very functional, fuel-efficient (30 MPG average) little car that punches above its weight class.  183,000 miles and counting.

 

The 2014 Ford Escape my dad replaced the Kia with?  Transmission died at 101,000 miles and that was it.  (In it's defense, it was overdue for routine maintenance due to procrastination.)  Hopefully the 2017 Escape that has replaced it lasts longer for him.

On 9/30/2023 at 7:11 PM, LAwLz said:

I don't know what it is, but something about cars makes a lot of people have a completely warped view of reality and act pretty much purely on emotions.

You are completely correct.  Not even car experts can come to a consensus half the time.  I've had people swear by Toyota, Ford, Kia, Chevy, Honda, Nissan, etc. while trashing the other brands and "holy shit I'm gonna pass out."  Lots of personal preference and personal experience and plain old nostalgia gets involved no matter who you talk to.

[dalekphalm]

19 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

At least in the US, having a vehicle gives you a huge amount of control over where you go and when.  No reliance on a bus that may or may not show up when you need it because somebody may or may not have shown up to work on time today (if at all).  To your average commuter, that's very valuable.

This is true, but at the same time, it's also an issue that North America has largely caused for itself. There are many places in the world where the transit system is considered very reliable, and can fairly easily get you to anywhere in a major city.

 

There are also possible solutions that can act as a compromise - an increase in ride sharing services for example.

19 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

Piggybacking on what some others have said, they really don't make cars like they used to.

Personally I don't buy this argument. Yeah, some older cars are basically bullet proof if you keep them maintained, but that's also true of many newer cars too.

19 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

My dad bought a 2007 Kia Spectra a long time ago.  That car was handed down to me in 2018.  And very soon here, it's about to be my sister's.  A few of the electronics don't work anymore (e.g. letting the pump auto-fill the tank overfills the tank because that sensor is broken and replacing it is a bitch), but it is still a very functional, fuel-efficient (30 MPG average) little car that punches above its weight class.  183,000 miles and counting.

Interesting - here in Ontario, older Kia's of that age have a very bad reputation, though my father has had 2 Soul's that he's been pretty happy with.

Quote

letting the pump auto-fill the tank overfills the tank because that sensor is broken

Hmm? There shouldn't be a sensor involved in fuel tank overfilling at all.

 

The mechanism for which a gas pump switches itself off is 100% mechanical in nature. Basically through a clever design of leverage and fluid dynamics, once the fuel backflow from your tank reaches the end of the nozzle, it creates a force that will disconnect the pump mechanism.

 

Consider that these pumps work with cars going back decades, and I highly doubt there are fancy sensors in all those beaters and old cars.

19 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

The 2014 Ford Escape my dad replaced the Kia with?  Transmission died at 101,000 miles and that was it.  (In it's defense, it was overdue for routine maintenance due to procrastination.)  Hopefully the 2017 Escape that has replaced it lasts longer for him.

Ford has a terrible reputation, as do all major US brands, outside of people who are diehards. Though its trans dying at 100K miles seems highly unusual, IMO.

19 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

You are completely correct.  Not even car experts can come to a consensus half the time.  I've had people swear by Toyota, Ford, Kia, Chevy, Honda, Nissan, etc. while trashing the other brands and "holy shit I'm gonna pass out."  Lots of personal preference and personal experience and plain old nostalgia gets involved no matter who you talk to.

Yep, it's kind of a shit show to try and sort through for a buyer who's looking for unbiased advice and information. Personally I try not to write off any brand as being "bad". Most major brands make both good and bad cars, and have had good model generations and bad model generations.

 

I've got a VW Jetta for example. Some people swear by German engineering and VW's, and love them. Others think they're overpriced garbage. My experience has been somewhat in the middle - it's had a few odd electrical issues, but largely has been pretty reliable barring a few somewhat major repairs (Had to have the valve covers or something like that replaced about 8 years in, as it was causing a bad engine noise, especially during a cold start).

 

We had a Ford Fusion Hybrid that was literally in the shop almost every other month the entire time we owned it, yet my wife's mother AND sister both own Fusions that have been rock solid for them.

 

It all comes down to personal experience for most people, and if someone gets burned by a brand, it doesn't really matter if statistically that was just a fluke or not.

[Beerzerker]

I'm just waiting for the rewrite of Rockwell's old tune, renamed "My car is watching me"........

[Techstorm970]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

The mechanism for which a gas pump switches itself off is 100% mechanical in nature. Basically through a clever design of leverage and fluid dynamics, once the fuel backflow from your tank reaches the end of the nozzle, it creates a force that will disconnect the pump mechanism.

Either I misunderstood my dad's explanation, or the mechanic fed my dad some bullshit when he took it in to get it fixed.  Not sure which.

 

All I know is that whenever I've let the gas pump fill it on its own, the car then stalls a few minutes later from overfilling, and that this was already going on before I started driving it. So at the pump I have to stand there and manually turn it off whenever it hits an amount that "looks about right."  It's annoying.

 

Looked it up and it sounds like it could be a bad evap canister, but that would usually cause emissions problems and an engine light, too, and neither of those things have occurred.  (The state mandates emissions checks every so often so we would know if that was off.)

[Beerzerker]

5 minutes ago, Techstorm970 said:

Either I misunderstood my dad's explanation, or the mechanic fed my dad some bullshit when he took it in to get it fixed.  Not sure which.

 

All I know is that whenever I've let the gas pump fill it on its own, the car then stalls a few minutes later from overfilling, and that this was already going on before I started driving it. So at the pump I have to stand there and manually turn it off whenever it hits an amount that "looks about right."  It's annoying.

 

Looked it up and it sounds like it could be a bad evap canister, but that would usually cause emissions problems and an engine light, too, and neither of those things have occurred.  (The state mandates emissions checks every so often so we would know if that was off.)

Could be the tank's vent is temporarily submerged when filled beyond a certain point, not allowing air to come in so it's temporarily starving for fuel until the vent is open to atmosphere again when the fuel level drops.

Generally if the vent is blocked for some reason, the pump can't draw enough fuel by volume to keep it going because it's creating a vaccum in the tank, running on what's already in the fuel line and a bit more until the fuel supply volume itself drops in the fuel system. 
As this vaccum increases, the amount of fuel drawn from the tank drops until it just quits.

A simple fuel system pressure check when it's "Full" will let you know if that's the case or not.
I'm assuming it's fuel injected here.

[dalekphalm]

15 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

Either I misunderstood my dad's explanation, or the mechanic fed my dad some bullshit when he took it in to get it fixed.  Not sure which.

 

All I know is that whenever I've let the gas pump fill it on its own, the car then stalls a few minutes later from overfilling, and that this was already going on before I started driving it. So at the pump I have to stand there and manually turn it off whenever it hits an amount that "looks about right."  It's annoying.

 

Looked it up and it sounds like it could be a bad evap canister, but that would usually cause emissions problems and an engine light, too, and neither of those things have occurred.  (The state mandates emissions checks every so often so we would know if that was off.)

I'm not a mechanic but @Beerzerker has a great reply that sounds about right. If I were to make a guess, something in the onboard computer or wiring has gone south and the canister isn't being purged?

 

Was this an old vehicle that's long gone, or do you still have it?

[Techstorm970]

26 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I'm not a mechanic but @Beerzerker has a great reply that sounds about right. If I were to make a guess, something in the onboard computer or wiring has gone south and the canister isn't being purged?

 

Was this an old vehicle that's long gone, or do you still have it?

Still have it, still in operation.  Passed down to me in 2018, and it'll get passed down to my sister by the end of this year.

[dalekphalm]

28 minutes ago, Techstorm970 said:

Still have it, still in operation.  Passed down to me in 2018, and it'll get passed down to my sister by the end of this year.

And you still have the same issue? Where if you fill the tank to full, the car stalls? IMO, if you plan to keep it long term, I'd take it to a mechanic and get it fixed, but that would be just me.

[Beerzerker]

4 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

Still have it, still in operation.  Passed down to me in 2018, and it'll get passed down to my sister by the end of this year.

If you check you might find a service bulletin about it from the manufacturer - May also run across others that had the same issue.
Mind you Kia isn't considered "The Best" brand but they are servicable vehicles in that they can get the job done. No one make or model you can put a name to will be perfect and I'd have to call it a quirk instead.

It also seems to me the fuel gauge float may be off causing it to read less than it actually has in the tank.
It's just a basic float like a toilet has in it's tank, floats like that can develop a leak over time and have some liquid get in, making it a little heavier so it doesn't read as much as what's actually there.

At least you do have an idea of how fuel is in it, ATM my pickup doesn't even have a working gauge in it so I top it off everytime I head out somewhere, I also used to drive an old Pinto with the same problem and did the same thing for it.
Never ran out of gas because of that and these days I ain't as young as I used to be for walking home.

[dalekphalm]

54 minutes ago, htimsenyawed said:

 

To add to this, continually doing this (getting that last 5 cents in the tank to make a whole dollar when the pump has already kicked off) can permanently damage your evap system. 

If you're referring to "topping off" (When people pump more gas after the first shutoff), that's also literally just wasting money in many cases too. At a certain point you're just adding fuel to the hose, which will be used by the next customer.

 

I see so many people top off their gas, even on pumps that do not accept cash at all (eg: Costco Gas Stations) - I wonder how many of these people have their fuel vapour system prematurely fail?