Here's the plan.

[Rolling2405]

On 8/25/2023 at 11:24 PM, Pepik said:

Why do you think that they will ever publish reasons why individual people were laid off?

I meant that hopefully there is a through and complete investigation and that the findings are released publicly and there is no coverup.

[William Payne]

Just now, Rolling2405 said:

I meant that hopefully there is a through and complete investigation and that the findings are released publicly and there is no coverup.

There are a whole lot of legal privacy laws involved in that stuff. Anything involving employees would come under privacy laws. 

[Rolling2405]

21 hours ago, RejZoR said:

What else can they do other than firing whoever bullied her or talked shit to her?

I guess that is the only remedy. I didn't really think about that. Or maybe if what she said is true they give her financial compensation?

[Rolling2405]

22 hours ago, Neroon said:

she made accusations that would require very specific people to do so. But no mention of that.

She probably felt uncomfortable or unsafe calling specific people out by name. If she did that then that person might target her. So she did not name specific people publicly and decided to cause an investigation to be started.

[William Payne]

1 minute ago, Rolling2405 said:

She probably felt uncomfortable or unsafe calling specific people out by name. If she did that then that person might target her. So she did not name specific people publicly and decided to cause an investigation to be started.

 

These kind of investigations involve a whole lot of legal and privacy stuff. Expecting to be in all spelled out in the local newspaper so to speak is unrealistic. Privacy has to be maintained for those involved, both the good and the bad. 

[XNOR]

18 hours ago, djenson said:

Considering Linus has been really friendly to GN, GN releasing a video, Especially with the conflict of interest between Labs and GN, and they way he portrayed it, I would be very surprised if Linus forgave GN.

 

Why? If you truly have a desire to make nice things and to improve, you appreciate fair criticism. The initial knee jerk often is to deny, to deflect, to strike back, but a lot of people will see the truth and value of the message upon some introspection. It's also true some never will, and it's also true that not all criticism is deserved. While Linus may or may not agree with the way GN brought the criticism here, I think the end result is a net positive.

 

I'm a flawed person, but one thing I've (mostly) learned is to hold my tongue when people criticize me. Having the correct, measured response ready right away is hard, and emotions foul up matters even more. Few people enjoy hearing they did wrong, so the best thing you can do is step back and listen, to try and understand the arguments best you can, so you can properly process them later.

 

Linus' initial response clearly was the emotional knee jerk, and whether he had some time to think or got checked by the people surrounding him, the follow up was very different.

[Taf the Ghost]

15 hours ago, dizmo said:

Looks like some solid plans, hopefully they work out. Though hearing that there are things that have been in the works for years seems...odd. If it only took a week to start remedying them, that's a sign that something is wrong (if indeed these year long projects were in that mix).

 

I kind of picture the structure of LTT like a sugar filled kid with ADHD.

 

Everyone having a good idea of what needs to change, even trying to change it, but it taking a long time isn't surprising. Even being in the works. What is required to implement it quickly? Well, exactly what happened: a multi-day shut down of the content pipeline, finding out what "page" everyone is on and getting most of everyone in on the right "page". 

 

If makes a lot more sense the issue if you look at something like manufacturing. If you're selling a product with a defect, if it requires a new mold to be made, that takes time and then you have to produce everything. A "simple fix" in CAD could take 6-9 months to show up in a physical result. Same type of issue, realistically.  Also, I imagine LMG employees needed at least a day or two to think deeper about the problems, as they "in their mind" but not "on their mind". You also need energy and "mental space" to think through the complexities. 

12 hours ago, Francisco Pinsaro said:

Seeing as you guys are now open to improving video quality long-term even if it means a short-term drop in traffic, perhaps it's time to dial back on clickbait titles? I know you've explained in the past why you do this, but maybe it's time to reevaluate that decision?

The YT algo enforces either Clickbait or anti-meta Clickbait titles & thumbnails.  I follow one smaller news-type channel that, after working with some consulting firms, started putting the reaction-face in their thumbnails? Result: about 50% increased click through. Unfortunately, it's not going away, but there are steps to be taken to not over do it.

7 hours ago, Kaythree said:

Exactly!! He didn’t address anything lol. Not to mention ZERO apology to Billet LOL. Linus even doubled down on “we were told we could keep it at first” and “no one made a mistake” lmao this vid sucked dude. I personally don’t care, I don’t expect perfection and it’s a YouTube channel, it isn’t that deep. But seeing the people say “amazing video!” Bro what are these people on lol. 

They changed an entire part of their inventory management. It was in the video. Billet was dealt with directly and, per Billet's own post on Reddit, see the issue as resolved. For the video, what needed to be said is what Linus said: this shouldn't have happened and large changes are made so it doesn't happen again.

1 hour ago, William Payne said:

There are a whole lot of legal privacy laws involved in that stuff. Anything involving employees would come under privacy laws. 

The one thing the Drama Spam Bots do it completely screw up the ability for people to understand there's very little, publicly, either party can ever say. Canada has pretty strict anti-reprisal laws on employers. Something even Linus has mentioned a few times on the WAN show.

1 hour ago, Rolling2405 said:

She probably felt uncomfortable or unsafe calling specific people out by name. If she did that then that person might target her. So she did not name specific people publicly and decided to cause an investigation to be started.

Defamation is the likely answer you're looking for. Canadian Company and a Canadian citizen former employee. They're under Canadian law, in that regard. If it was Americans, you can get away with a lot (even if they're lies) before you risk losing a legal case. Since most are used to American Social Media, it's easy to forget the oddity that is American Defamation laws. (Thanks, SCOTUS. Sullivan was a terrible precedent.)

 

I've mentioned how vague the malfeasance accusations are and Madison is a professional in the Social Media space. That vagueness wasn't an accident. But the issue is if she did "name names" and any part wasn't remembered right, well, that's a big problem. But the vagueness also leaves open the motivations for the Thread in general, as it's massive zeitgeist PR damage at minimal context.

 

Because there's still a couple of ways this massive blows back on Madison. Its entirely possible, due to her declining mental state, what she thought she was reporting and what actually got reported are different. Then, the issues actually came out as she left, which lead to some dismissals. I think people clearly missed Linus all but telling everyone, in the video, that they fire a couple of people a year. This entire issue is far from over.  Which is why you don't do this stuff on social media.

[Distinctly Average]

On 8/26/2023 at 4:49 AM, SansVarnic said:

Matters under legal precedent cannot be commented on in public during an official investigation as it can influence said investigation. And have legal ramifications. Any conjecture outside that is just conjecture. Opinions are still opinions, but vilifying based on conjecture and opinion is a fools errand. FYI.

I would also add that it would not be healthy for the mental wellbeing of everyone involved, especially a young woman who obviously has been struggling with mental health. I can only imagine some of the vile abuse both side have already received from haters. Continuing to play this out in the public arena will only make things worse.

[Uttamattamakin]

3 hours ago, William Payne said:

There are a whole lot of legal privacy laws involved in that stuff. Anything involving employees would come under privacy laws. 

Terren Tong committed to the findings of the external investigation being released.  IF this leads to someone who is before the camera saying goodbye shortly after people may put two and two together.  Otherwise we may never know.  

This should make sense since you know.  When these kind of things lead to lawsuits the court hearings are in public. 

[Neroon]

3 hours ago, Rolling2405 said:

She probably felt uncomfortable or unsafe calling specific people out by name. If she did that then that person might target her. So she did not name specific people publicly and decided to cause an investigation to be started.

That's a terrible take.

 

Those specific people would already know it's about them. On top of that, if you worry about retaliation, you would either keep quiet, or deal with it privately. Making it public would be the worst thing you could do.

 

If she named names, those people would be in the public eye, and it would be much harder to do anything to her. By doing this, she increases the likelyhood of it getting worse.

 

Simply put, this is the worst choice you can make, if you worry about being targeted.

 

In the end, the problem here is that you and so many others keep making assumptions based on info that isn't there. People make circular arguments constantly, to explain why she did what she did.

 

If she refuses to give context and names, which is her choice, then we should not keep bringing these things up, because we know jack shit. So until we know more, we should presume innocence on the part of LMG.

[Uttamattamakin]

43 minutes ago, Neroon said:

In the end, the problem here is that you and so many others keep making assumptions based on info that isn't there. People make circular arguments constantly, to explain why she did what she did.

The most common assumption I've seen made is that she is lying.   That there is nothing to see here move on.  

The second most common is that the final investigative report from LMG's external investigator will not be made public. When. 

Linus Tech Tips pauses production as controversy swirls - The Verge

 

Quote

Linus Media Group CEO Terren Tong also responded via email, saying he was “shocked at the allegations and the company described” in Reeve’s posts. He went on to note that “as part of this process, beyond an internal review we will also be hiring an outside investigator to look into the allegations and will commit to publish the findings and implementing any corrective actions that may arise because of this.”  

Which will be a really good move that will dispel any dark cloud that may remain.  Especially if there is nothing there and even if corrective actions need to be taken.  

Note the statement above was likely cleared by (or sent by) a lawyer on behalf of Terren.  

Also you know if there are legal proceedings in court those are public. 

All any of us can do now is wait.  For a group of people who want our frame rate to be 1000 FPS ray traced with ns response times ... that'll be hard.  These things take time.  Perhaps the best part of a year.  I also empathize that many fans just want this to be over.  To move on, to forget, which if this is not all false would be really evil.  

Maybe no one in the fanbase is "bad".  Those who want accountability and to keep LMG honest, nor the fans who think this is all just drama because of course our bros in LMG know how to treat a lady are "bad".  

One group are realist who know how awful the world can be to some people, the other are idealist who would never do the things said and can't think other nice seeming people could.   Neither is bad. Both have their place.

[Lenovich]

Ah the meetengs. Welcome to corporate souless world. Good luck. <--- SARCASM

[Pepik]

5 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

The most common assumption I've seen made is that she is lying.  

 

Really? I have seen her claims supported by two different former LMG employees - that she told them then the same things as she wrote now.

[Neroon]

5 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

One group are realist who know how awful the world can be to some people, the other are idealist who would never do the things said and can't think other nice seeming people could.   Neither is bad. Both have their place.

You are forgetting a group, which is the one that knows how people can make up terrible stuff, just to get (more) attention.

 

We can't be sure which is which, and it could be a mix of multiple things, but the fact remains, that right now we know next to nothing, and should not condemn LMG for accusations that again has no context, no names, and no witnesses.

 

Right now we don't have the truth, so let's not pretend that we do.

[Uttamattamakin]

1 hour ago, Pepik said:

Really? I have seen her claims supported by two different former LMG employees - that she told them then the same things as she wrote now.

Yeah.  In many threads or over on the Reddit or on Floatplane many seem to think she's lying and anyone who thinks her issue is serious is "simping" etc.  That's she's lying to make it up for attention. 
 

59 minutes ago, Neroon said:

You are forgetting a group, which is the one that knows how people can make up terrible stuff, just to get (more) attention.

@Pepik see above.

 

59 minutes ago, Neroon said:

We can't be sure which is which, and it could be a mix of multiple things, but the fact remains, that right now we know next to nothing, and should not condemn LMG for accusations that again has no context, no names, and no witnesses.

 

Right now we don't have the truth, so let's not pretend that we do.

 
Neroon: No one is pretending to have the truth by wanting to be sure LMG and TT the new CEO follow through on their stated commitments.    

I get it you like Linus, LTT, LMG all the people.  As Linus himself says people get really para social.  We don't really know them personally.  We weren't there then and aren't there now.  All we can do is observe what they do and infer what is going on based on their actions.  

I don't need to be in orbit of Betelgeuse to study its possible supernova.  While acknowledging,  I would have more information if I was.  (Have I mentioned that I'm a theoretical astrophysicist?  I just like randomly dropping that in conversations.)
 

[RunnerUp]

2 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

people get really para social

I've seen the word "parasocial" so many times over the past week here, and on reddit. It is like everyone saw it and added it immediately to their vocabulary. No knock against you, just an observation.

[dizmo]

12 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Everyone having a good idea of what needs to change, even trying to change it, but it taking a long time isn't surprising. Even being in the works. What is required to implement it quickly? Well, exactly what happened: a multi-day shut down of the content pipeline, finding out what "page" everyone is on and getting most of everyone in on the right "page". 

 

If makes a lot more sense the issue if you look at something like manufacturing. If you're selling a product with a defect, if it requires a new mold to be made, that takes time and then you have to produce everything. A "simple fix" in CAD could take 6-9 months to show up in a physical result. Same type of issue, realistically.  Also, I imagine LMG employees needed at least a day or two to think deeper about the problems, as they "in their mind" but not "on their mind". You also need energy and "mental space" to think through the complexities.

Right. Months. Not years. Regardless of how long it takes, it's still a problem when you realize it's taken years to accomplish something. They're not doing something huge and monumental here. It's just a can they kept kicking down the road, and didn't focus on when they needed to.

[Arika]

12 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Which will be a really good move that will dispel any dark cloud that may remain.

that's a good joke. i've already seen people trying to dispel this because "well they are getting paid by LTT, so conflict of interest!!".

 

example on this very forum:

 

harking back to literally: haters gonna hate.

[Lights Of Elberfeld]

23 hours ago, Kaythree said:

Exactly!! He didn’t address anything lol. Not to mention ZERO apology to Billet LOL. Linus even doubled down on “we were told we could keep it at first” and “no one made a mistake” lmao this vid sucked dude. I personally don’t care, I don’t expect perfection and it’s a YouTube channel, it isn’t that deep. But seeing the people say “amazing video!” Bro what are these people on lol. 

He's not there THIS week.  He was absolutely there during the hiatus from videos.

[Lights Of Elberfeld]

17 hours ago, Rolling2405 said:

I meant that hopefully there is a through and complete investigation and that the findings are released publicly and there is no coverup.

I don't know specifically about Canada, but in the states, that's illegal.  You are not allowed to tell why someone doesn't work for you anymore.  It is a privacy violation.  I do know it's quite common in Canada to have a work contract that tells the terms of your employment and they in general don't even have to have a reason to terminate employment.  Since he's actively hiring though, presume they had a reason and you will never find out what it is, and frankly I doubt we would know any of them anyway.

[GeorgeMKane]

On 8/26/2023 at 5:24 PM, Francisco Pinsaro said:

Seeing as you guys are now open to improving video quality long-term even if it means a short-term drop in traffic, perhaps it's time to dial back on clickbait titles? I know you've explained in the past why you do this, but maybe it's time to reevaluate that decision?

You lost me at drop in traffic, which is literally good for no channel. Agreed that they could start using a term like "click-focused" instead of "clickbait," but even then not much would change in the titles. They would still need to advertise, and I think they do a decent job of bringing up other subjects while still keeping the video relevant. The recent Sega Gaming PC video, for reference, was a good one. However, Sega Gaming PC is the misleading part. I would've probably recommended "We bought a Japanese Sega Gaming PC, but could we even get into it? " or something similar.

[Taf the Ghost]

7 hours ago, dizmo said:

Right. Months. Not years. Regardless of how long it takes, it's still a problem when you realize it's taken years to accomplish something. They're not doing something huge and monumental here. It's just a can they kept kicking down the road, and didn't focus on when they needed to.

Well, the issues came in kind of slowly. Taran and Brandon moving on in life actually seems to be roughly the point where more issues really started cropping up. That's around the point Linus was making the decision to commit to bringing in a new CEO.  It's clear there was issues with where the paradigm was and there were moves to change things. The issue is that the Billet Labs brought a huge chunk of all of the issues right to one specific event.

 

Of course, it wasn't until Linus' forum post and the backlash where it all was forced to be brought from "background work" to shutting down the pipeline and really working through things. Kind of in the way that actual pipelines in the real world don't get shut down often, but, when they do, they spend a while doing necessary maintenance. Realistically, no one at LMG had the time & energy necessary to make all of these changes in a short period of time, unless they shut everything down and really worked through the issues.

[Dedayog]

On 8/26/2023 at 12:32 AM, jknutz said:

No. It’s company practice to always go FP first. Not understanding that is being a dick. 

On a video that is outside the bounds of normal?

 

This isn't a review of a product but integral to their channel and the scandals they're dealing with.

 

Putting it FP first exhibits a decided lack of give a shit for the regular non-paying fans.

 

If you don't understand why a vide of this magnitude (for them) should be all platforms equally shows you haven't been in the business space long, if at all.

 

Not sure what me being a dick has to do with it, I'm a dick about a lot of things.

[AbsoluteWoo]

2 hours ago, Dedayog said:

On a video that is outside the bounds of normal?

 

This isn't a review of a product but integral to their channel and the scandals they're dealing with.

 

Putting it FP first exhibits a decided lack of give a shit for the regular non-paying fans.

 

If you don't understand why a vide of this magnitude (for them) should be all platforms equally shows you haven't been in the business space long, if at all.

 

Not sure what me being a dick has to do with it, I'm a dick about a lot of things.

Subscribe to FP if you're that bothered.

 

It seems you're the one misunderstanding. You've blown this whole situation out of proportion in your mind, acting like it should have been breaking news across all TV channels when the update video hit.

 

Get over it, it really isn't that big of a deal.

[iLikeBananas]

12 days since we had a LTT main channel video, this really sucks. I need more LTT content. The quality was fine.