Nintendo to use denuvo in future titles

[imreloadin]

As if Switch games didn't perform poorly enough as it was

[BeefSupreme]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:21 PM, emosun said:

oh really? 3 wasn't an accurate  count? no way

I think people are severely underestimating how bad Denuvo on Switch can be. The actual number of people cracking Denuvo games: 1 

This is going to add an enormous backlog to Empress' list of games to crack. If nothing else, Switch games with Denuvo will take much longer than previously to crack and now can only be cracked by one person. It's possible some big name games get overlooked by Empress entirely because she simply doesn't have the time anymore. That would be a sad outcome but one that wouldn't surprise me.

[Smithfield]

Fun fact, DRM to prevent games from being run in an emulator is actually nothing new. The Famicom Mini series on Game Boy Advance implemented this by basically running some edge cases that would likely fail in emulators, and if they do, say "Game Pak error" and prevent the game from running.

 

In fact, there even was the Disney Trio of Destruction™ for the Wii. Disney Trio of Destruction™ (dolphin-emu.org) These games require an overclocked Ryzen 7000 series desktop CPU to run at full speed.

 

Okay, these may not be full-on DRM, but rather are just edge cases that only extremely accurate and intensive emulation will handle correctly. But games checking if they are emulated, nothing new.

[RoseLuck462]

This won’t prevent any piracy but I can see shareholders and 3rd party publishers demanding these protections as usual.

[Error 52]

Three pages and nobody's pointing out that Nintendo didn't develop this solution, seems to have had little involvement other than authorizing its use, and there is nothing to suggest Nintendo will actually use this in any of their games. I mean, they might, but as-is the title of this thread is completely wrong.

[Spindel]

11 hours ago, Error 52 said:

Three pages and nobody's pointing out that Nintendo didn't develop this solution, seems to have had little involvement other than authorizing its use, and there is nothing to suggest Nintendo will actually use this in any of their games. I mean, they might, but as-is the title of this thread is completely wrong.

Shhhh!

 

Don’t screw up a perfect anti-apple -nintendo circle jerk with your facts!

[BeefSupreme]

On 8/26/2023 at 1:57 PM, Error 52 said:

Three pages and nobody's pointing out that Nintendo didn't develop this solution, seems to have had little involvement other than authorizing its use, and there is nothing to suggest Nintendo will actually use this in any of their games. I mean, they might, but as-is the title of this thread is completely wrong.

can you think of any reason why they wouldn't? Nintendo is one of the most IP-protective companies on the planet

[Error 52]

1 hour ago, BeefSupreme said:

can you think of any reason why they wouldn't? Nintendo is one of the most IP-protective companies on the planet

Because it's a third-party DRM solution and they feel that it may not be worth the money or actually be effective. And I can see them not wanting any unnecessary middlemen being involved with their games.

 

I dunno, while it wouldn't be totally unprecedented for a third-party DRM solution to be implemented in a Nintendo published title, my gut feeling is that they probably won't bother with this, and neither will most developers.

[NF-F12]

Nintendo have often released very crippled hardware platforms for their games to be released on.

 

Nintendo 64 - Most games under 32 megabytes due to lack of space on their chosen media. Textures reduced to mud, no real music just MIDI tunes.

Gamecube - Multi platform and first party games limited in capacity due to 1.5GB small discs when the PlayStation 2 had access to DVD9.

Wii - Repackaging of Gamecube hardware with support for DVD, no other innovation.

Wii U - Awful controller gimmick that flopped spectacularly.

Switch - Very underpowered Nvidia Shield rebrand after the Shield flopped, reliance on Android and only really able to provide a 720p gaming experience.

 

Nintendo have the ability to make really magical games, they just always released them on hardware that was weak as hell. They also rabidly attack people who spend a lot of hours making emulators to circumvent the hardware issue, it isn't about unwillingness to buy games it's about getting a decent experience.

 

Old school Japanese dinosaur exects simply do not understand the modern technological world well enough to stop this from being an issue. The Switch Lite can't even Switch...

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, NF-F12 said:

Nintendo have the ability to make really magical games, they just always released them on hardware that was weak as hell.

You know who else does that? Apple.

 

Like, I jest, but it would not surprise me to see Apple buy Nintendo. They basically subscribe to the same mentality of "users want a good experience, not good hardware"

 

[Error 52]

11 hours ago, NF-F12 said:

Switch - Very underpowered Nvidia Shield rebrand after the Shield flopped, reliance on Android and only really able to provide a 720p gaming experience.

While the Switch was very weak by home console standards, it's really a handheld console at its core and by those standards it was pretty impressive at the time of its launch. The Tegra X1 was one of the better SOCs Nintendo could've went with at the time. Might've been a few years out of date but that's console development for you.

 

Also it doesn't actually run Android. Nicked some of the driver code but it's still mostly its own thing.

[thevictor390]

On 8/25/2023 at 6:50 PM, Kisai said:

If your console dies, Nintendo requires you to re-buy everything. Same with Sony, and Microsoft, even Steam.

 

I'm not one to defend digital licensing, but this sentence is extremely confusing, as it should be to anyone who has used any of these services... all of them allow you to redownload purchases without re-buying (unless the service has stopped running, in which case you can do neither).

[Error 52]

16 minutes ago, thevictor390 said:

I'm not one to defend digital licensing, but this sentence is extremely confusing, as it should be to anyone who has used any of these services... all of them allow you to redownload purchases without re-buying (unless the service has stopped running, in which case you can do neither).

Yeah, literally the only exceptions I can think of is actually the Wii, DSiWare, 3DS, and Wii U, which were all purchases actually bound to the console, but Nintendo sorted that out with the Switch finally so it doesn't even apply here.

[Jorgemeister]

On 8/23/2023 at 4:22 PM, Poinkachu said:

 

I heard it's quite either a miracle or an astounding display of sheer willpower, that ToTK can be played in emu as nicely as it is in a pretty short time.

 

I have not emulated it myself but I've seen videos of people emulating it with different GPUs, and it can run so much better than in the Switch.

 

Its can run like crap on the switch to a 4k TV or a 1440p monitor, when a new area is being loaded, like when you go into the depths, or when it gets busy with lots of mobs or explosions around, there's no fps counter but it feels like 15 and I can count the pixels.

 

The switch already felt outdated at launch, yet Nintendo still expects it can run new games like TOTK normally, imagine how much they had to restrict the game to make it run on it when it could have been even better visually if they didn't have that restriction.

 

Source: 500 hours on TOTK and I still get pissed when the FPS makes me feels like I'm playing in a potato. I'd gladly replay it on a PC just to see how much better it can feel and look.

[Poinkachu]

19 minutes ago, Jorgemeister said:

 

I have not emulated it myself but I've seen videos of people emulating it with different GPUs, and it can run so much better than in the Switch.

 

Its can run like crap on the switch to a 4k TV or a 1440p monitor, when a new area is being loaded, like when you go into the depths, or when it gets busy with lots of mobs or explosions around, there's no fps counter but it feels like 15 and I can count the pixels.

 

The switch already felt outdated at launch, yet Nintendo still expects it can run new games like TOTK normally, imagine how much they had to restrict the game to make it run on it when it could have been even better visually if they didn't have that restriction.

 

Source: 500 hours on TOTK and I still get pissed when the FPS makes me feels like I'm playing in a potato. I'd gladly replay it on a PC just to see how much better it can feel and look.

Them removing teleport saddle & bridle kinda makes me stay away from it.
I mean... why.... that was a nice QoL feature.

 

They really want people to travel around using the new "build stuff" & drop from the sky mechanic I guess

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, thevictor390 said:

I'm not one to defend digital licensing, but this sentence is extremely confusing, as it should be to anyone who has used any of these services... all of them allow you to redownload purchases without re-buying (unless the service has stopped running, in which case you can do neither).

 

2 hours ago, Error 52 said:

Yeah, literally the only exceptions I can think of is actually the Wii, DSiWare, 3DS, and Wii U, which were all purchases actually bound to the console, but Nintendo sorted that out with the Switch finally so it doesn't even apply here.

Can't redownload if the service has stopped existing, or you move to another country. Even the iphone/ipad does this. Go ahead and try to change your billing location on Steam and watch your purchases disappear. Heck, try to run your steam games without Steam installed or without internet access.

 

Quote

https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/2B3F-DAEF-846B-A0E8

What if I move and want to change my store country to the new location?

If you have moved to a new place, or are living abroad for an extended period of time, you can update your Steam country setting when you complete your first purchase using a payment method from that region. If your location differs from your current Steam account store country setting you'll have an option to change your store region while you view your cart or as you complete your purchase.

 

Having internet access is not a given everywhere, and because these companies want to lock-in price discrimination, you can't buy a cheaper identical version for a different market. 

 

If you want to keep playing your games you need to keep the billing address in the same country where it was originally setup.

 

On iOS, actual software, films, music, etc disappears from the app stores unless you change the billing (eg switching to a card issued in another country) and you can't even update or redownload those things without switching back and forth.

 

[thevictor390]

5 minutes ago, Kisai said:

 

Can't redownload if the service has stopped existing, or you move to another country. Even the iphone/ipad does this. Go ahead and try to change your billing location on Steam and watch your purchases disappear. Heck, try to run your steam games without Steam installed or without internet access.

 

 

Having internet access is not a given everywhere, and because these companies want to lock-in price discrimination, you can't buy a cheaper identical version for a different market. 

 

If you want to keep playing your games you need to keep the billing address in the same country where it was originally setup.

 

On iOS, actual software, films, music, etc disappears from the app stores unless you change the billing (eg switching to a card issued in another country) and you can't even update or redownload those things without switching back and forth.

 

The sentence I responded to was "if your console dies." That is the part that was untrue, and is the only part I quoted. The rest was true, so I did not dispute it.

[Kisai]

15 minutes ago, thevictor390 said:

The sentence I responded to was "if your console dies." That is the part that was untrue, and is the only part I quoted. The rest was true, so I did not dispute it.

All of this is in the context of trying to play games you legally purchased on a device that isn't authorized to do so, despite having the physical or digital copy.

 

If you want to play a Nintendo Switch game, unless you have the physical cartridge, you can't transfer it to another device. Nintendo will not let you have a digital copy of that game on two switches you own at the same time. 

 

Steam will not let you play a game you own, on two different computers at the same time. Even if the game was "free."  Heck, I'd say Steam's "family" accounts are useless because all it can be used for is locking down software away from the user.

 

Family accounts for consoles are geared toward that, not allowing you to have 5 consoles with the same game on it that everyone can play at the same time.

[thevictor390]

2 minutes ago, Kisai said:

All of this is in the context of trying to play games you legally purchased on a device that isn't authorized to do so.

 

If you want to play a Nintendo Switch game, unless you have the physical cartridge, you can't transfer it to another device. Nintendo will not let you have a digital copy of that game on two switches you own at the same time. 

 

Steam will not let you play a game you own, on two different computers at the same time. Even if the game was "free."  Heck, I'd say Steam's "family" accounts are useless because all it can be used for is locking down software away from the user.

 

Family accounts for consoles are geared toward that, not allowing you to have 5 consoles with the same game on it that everyone can play at the same time.

This is all true, but it is still untrue that if your console/PC dies, you have to rebuy the game.

[Jorgemeister]

58 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

Them removing teleport saddle & bridle kinda makes me stay away from it.
I mean... why.... that was a nice QoL feature.

 

They really want people to travel around using the new "build stuff" & drop from the sky mechanic I guess

TBH I didnt even notice, I have used horses for like 30 minutes, the builds are OP to travel and much more fun, between that and so many shrines I feels like the travel distances are reduced here.

[Mark Kaine]

On 8/24/2023 at 1:06 AM, OhioYJ said:

Oh just what the switch needs something else to slow it down... Not like Denuvo is ever known for causing performance issues in games. Nor is it known for being cracked immediately and doing nothing to stop pirates anyways... Pretty sure I don't even need to post sources for any of those statements...

actually denuvo is pretty much almost un-crackable nowadays afaik (feel free to prove me otherwise, i know its technically possible but almost no one

bothers anymore, especially not "immediately" which is kinda the point of denuvo).

[Mark Kaine]

 TLDR;

 

Reality: very few denuvo games get cracked, often months after release 

 

Average internet Joey Shmoey:  EVERY DENUVO GAME GETS CRACKED IMMEDIATELY ITS THE LAW!!!!!

 

 

 

[BeefSupreme]

15 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

 TLDR;

 

Reality: very few denuvo games get cracked, often months after release 

 

Average internet Joey Shmoey:  EVERY DENUVO GAME GETS CRACKED IMMEDIATELY ITS THE LAW!!!!!

 

 

 

I was starting to feel like I was the crazy one in this thread lmao, thank you!! People here have no clue how bad this could potentially be.

[Alex Atkin UK]

On 8/23/2023 at 11:49 PM, Lightning said:

This news might impact those who bought the steam deck to use as a switch emulator and also game preservation. The real question is, would this have any affect in combating piracy anyway? Since denuvo will get cracked eventually.

Nope, its going to make piracy worse.

 

I moved to playing my Switch games under emulation as TOTK looks and runs like utter garbage on Switch.  All legally purchased and ripped from my own Switch.

 

If they make it impossible to rip titles I bought, I wont buy any more, at least not until they release a handheld that can actually run them well.

[ewitte]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:57 PM, TempestCatto said:

There's your answer.

Technically it gets bypassed it hasn't really been cracked.