Nintendo to use denuvo in future titles

[Mark Kaine]

On 8/26/2023 at 1:21 AM, BeefSupreme said:

I think people are severely underestimating how bad Denuvo on Switch can be. The actual number of people cracking Denuvo games: 1 

This is going to add an enormous backlog to Empress' list of games to crack. If nothing else, Switch games with Denuvo will take much longer than previously to crack and now can only be cracked by one person. It's possible some big name games get overlooked by Empress entirely because she simply doesn't have the time anymore. That would be a sad outcome but one that wouldn't surprise me.

thats the thing even if they wanted... they cant... it probably takes weeks - months for one game lmao.

 

And then you think Nintendo isn't going after them?  Well, be sure they will try!

 

 

The takes here, every denuvo game gets cracked are simply hilarious,  maybe years ago, but today? Nah, no way, it's much harder to do now, and the people interested and able to do it are around... well the astonishing number of 1, lol...

 

 

techmoan has some good videos how internet myths often are born out of literally nothing and even years later people believe that bullshit... and he disproves it with actual facts, research and original engineering papers,  old adverts and original magazine articles ...

 

 

not at least stuff like "myths busters" are at fault because they base their tests on literally nothing without any scientific or otherwise basis. 

 

ie, 99% youtubes fault and the audience they're fostering since the early 2000s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

59 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Nope, its going to make piracy worse.

 

but not for denuvo titles... my sweet summer child ~

 

 

59 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

If they make it impossible to rip titles I bought, I wont buy any more, at least not until they release a handheld that can actually run them well.

That doesn't matter to them in the slightest,  the masses will keep buying, and tbh, if i was Nintendo i would do the same,  its not that i approve their overall business practices,  but protecting their ips and games,  well, why wouldn't they do that?

 

And if you think performance is not adequate, maybe you should really stop supporting the makers of not adequately performing goods, instead of trying to find workarounds (just imho)

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

but not for denuvo titles... my sweet summer child ~

 

 

That doesn't matter to them in the slightest,  the masses will keep buying, and tbh, if i was Nintendo i would do the same,  its not that i approve their overall business practices,  but protecting their ips and games,  well, why wouldn't they do that?

 

And if you think performance is not adequate, maybe you should really stop supporting the makers of not adequately performing goods, instead of trying to find workarounds (just imho)

I will be forced to do exactly that. TOTK was unique in that it was a game I really wanted.  I would likely have gotten it anyway, mostly down to fact all the reviews seemed to underplay just how awful the game looked when played on a TV.  Before that I pretty hadn't touched my Switch since Mario Kart 7.

Now that PC handhelds are really taking off, there's little reason to buy on Switch, many of the games I have on there I also have on Steam.  Its just the sheer amount of money they throw at the wall on anti-piracy when its been said time and time again they likely lose more on that than the sales they gain from blocking piracy.

[Mark Kaine]

17 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I will be forced to do exactly that. TOTK was unique in that it was a game I really wanted.  I would likely have gotten it anyway, mostly down to fact all the reviews seemed to underplay just how awful the game looked when played on a TV.  Before that I pretty hadn't touched my Switch since Mario Kart 7.

Now that PC handhelds are really taking off, there's little reason to buy on Switch, many of the games I have on there I also have on Steam.  Its just the sheer amount of money they throw at the wall on anti-piracy when its been said time and time again they likely lose more on that than the sales they gain from blocking piracy.

i mean, Nintendo is over protective,  but its also just not an exactly likable company with questionable policies, so those two things give a certain "evil corps" vibe for sure, hence i didn't support the company since the snes days... i wish more people would realize the power they have as a consumer,  but i digress...

 

 

Back in the day Playstation was the most pirated system and arguably (not really) that was big part of its success,  everybody knew it and Sony was drowning in money so they just let it fly (for the most part)

 

Nowadays Sony sucks too, overpriced,  not innovative,  boring. 

 

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

3 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Back in the day Playstation was the most pirated system and arguably (not really) that was big part of its success,  everybody knew it and Sony was drowning in money so they just let it fly (for the most part)

 

Nowadays Sony sucks too, overpriced,  not innovative,  boring.

I'd argue they are the most innovative, they continue to evolve their controller tech and while sadly its not very robust when it comes to reliability, it does add immersion to the games that support it.  Sure you could argue its subtle, but then that's pretty much the case for anything at this point - there's only so much you can do.  We wouldn't even want games to be too immersive as it would actually make them less fun, eg mouse aiming is way too precise when light guns were far more realistic and motion controls today coming the closest to that.  Realism does not equal the most fun, quite the contrary when it comes to competitive FPS in fact as you'd get tired too quickly using realistic controls and people just want that instant gratification, not have to learn how to actually use a gun and the fatigue of doing so.

 

Sony are also pushing a better VR experience which granted not a big deal for mainstream gaming (see previous comment on realism != most fun), its still innovation.  Its a LOT easier to use than PC VR.

 

Microsoft by comparison at best stagnated with basically the same controller or actually went backwards, given they ditched Kinect.  Even though I agree Kinect was never a good technology for gaming, it still shows a lack of innovation to drop it and not try something different that is more suitable for gaming, like both Nintendo and Sony did with motion controls and haptic feedback.  Motion controls are darn useful in TOTK for more precision, doubly so under emulation using a Dualsense controller which seems more precise than Nintendos own.

You can argue their games are all derivative but how is that unique to Sony?  Were at a point where pretty much every good idea has been tried and innovative new ideas aren't necessarily good.

[BeefSupreme]

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Microsoft by comparison at best stagnated with basically the same controller or actually went backwards, given they ditched Kinect.  Even though I agree Kinect was never a good technology for gaming, it still shows a lack of innovation to drop it and not try something different that is more suitable for gaming, like both Nintendo and Sony did with motion controls and haptic feedback.  Motion controls are darn useful in TOTK for more precision, doubly so under emulation using a Dualsense controller which seems more precise than Nintendos own.

You can argue their games are all derivative but how is that unique to Sony?  Were at a point where pretty much every good idea has been tried and innovative new ideas aren't necessarily good.

Yeah, I think it's easy to conflate "innovation" with "which company is putting out games I like" and when you're comparing that way, Microsoft will always take the cake. It seems like Microsoft's idea of "innovation" is really just acquisitions. You never have to innovate if you just buy the companies that do!

 

Sony, on the other hand, is kind of in a pickle. Dwindling exclusives, more Xbox/PC integrations, game studios getting bought by the competitor left and right. Sony is going to need to take a more aggressive stance to remain competitive with Microsoft in the next generation, or they'll need to innovate so hard that people don't care about Xbox Game Pass and Xbox's other features. I'm hoping they can pull it off but the future looks rough for Playstation imho.

[Mark Kaine]

12 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I'd argue they are the most innovative, they continue to evolve their controller tech and while sadly its not very robust when it comes to reliability, it does add immersion to the games that support it.  Sure you could argue its subtle, but then that's pretty much the case for anything at this point - there's only so much you can do.  We wouldn't even want games to be too immersive as it would actually make them less fun, eg mouse aiming is way too precise when light guns were far more realistic and motion controls today coming the closest to that.  Realism does not equal the most fun, quite the contrary when it comes to competitive FPS in fact as you'd get tired too quickly using realistic controls and people just want that instant gratification, not have to learn how to actually use a gun and the fatigue of doing so.

 

Sony are also pushing a better VR experience which granted not a big deal for mainstream gaming (see previous comment on realism != most fun), its still innovation.  Its a LOT easier to use than PC VR.

 

Microsoft by comparison at best stagnated with basically the same controller or actually went backwards, given they ditched Kinect.  Even though I agree Kinect was never a good technology for gaming, it still shows a lack of innovation to drop it and not try something different that is more suitable for gaming, like both Nintendo and Sony did with motion controls and haptic feedback.  Motion controls are darn useful in TOTK for more precision, doubly so under emulation using a Dualsense controller which seems more precise than Nintendos own.

You can argue their games are all derivative but how is that unique to Sony?  Were at a point where pretty much every good idea has been tried and innovative new ideas aren't necessarily good.

yes, you can argue if a controller evolution is innovation (not sure tbh, but it's something) but what i meant is the system itself is boring,  with off the shelf parts and always samey games (that goes for all devs ig, but that's still the opposite of innovation) 

 

 

Nah, the days when Sony was revolutionary/ innovative are long over (latest when they fired kuturagi) the PS3 was the last innovative console from Sony,  PS4 is when they started to get very boring,  very predictable. 

 

 

Id even argue that the switch is much more innovative, a handheld/ main console hybrid?  well that wasn't really there before  

[Mark Kaine]

11 hours ago, BeefSupreme said:

Sony is going to need to take a more aggressive stance to remain competitive

they would need to make their own cpu/gpu, etc  its not gonna happen... it'll be mundane and boring again.

 

 

if you use off the shelf parts and sell overpriced games,  you need to start thinking why people don't just play on pc with better performance and better game selection.  there's no place for innovation in Sonys current strat. Ig same goes for Xbox,,Nintendo,  well they're the only ones that have kinda unique games so they don't really need to be "innovative" much. 

[fartmuncher69_420]

On 8/29/2023 at 8:04 AM, NF-F12 said:

Nintendo 64 - Most games under 32 megabytes due to lack of space on their chosen media. Textures reduced to mud, no real music just MIDI tunes.

...

Wii - Repackaging of Gamecube hardware with support for DVD, no other innovation.

Nintendo 64 - My copy of FIFA 99 and Mystical Ninja 2 Starring Goemon both had songs. So did Conkers bad fur day (it was an entire opera about poo).

Wii - The Wii was the most innovative console of its generation both in terms of its target market and its controllers. I have no idea how you could say it had no other innovation. 

 

The switch is absolutely too long in the tooth and I really hope the successor is backwards compatible because I would love to play TOTK on something with higher framerates. It's a much nicer game running on Yuzu than natively (I don't feel bad since I bought the game anyway).

[NF-F12]

On 8/29/2023 at 3:51 AM, Kisai said:

You know who else does that? Apple.

 

Like, I jest, but it would not surprise me to see Apple buy Nintendo. They basically subscribe to the same mentality of "users want a good experience, not good hardware"

 

 

I cannot see the traditional Japanese style of corporate management and the style of Apple's management being able to work together at all. It would be interesting to see but I just can't imagine it. Tim Cook makes exceedingly calculated and prosperous business decisions and has taken Apple to insane heights of market cap. Nintendo have done all kinds of things to impede advertisement and adoption of their products, primarily the DMCA madness with content creators who play and promote their games to the masses and rabidly attacking emulation while at the same time refusing to provice a decent hardware platform for people to play their games, which there is CLEARLY a market for. I am convinced that the advanced state of emulation of Nintendo titles especially switch on PC isn't purely about piracy it's about enhancing the quality of the experience.

 

I would prefer to see Nintendo release a home console built similarly to the other consoles of the generation and just have their games in their art style as before but available on switch and also a razor sharp 4k 60fps experience on the television rather than forcing the television experience to be 720p. They would then be free to offer parity of performance on multi platform titles just like Sony and Microsoft do.

 

We have a lot of modern games being ported to switch from much more powerful platforms, it could surely work vice versa. I'd buy it in an instant.

I would of course like everyone else prefer them to release their games on PC but I think we will be waiting a long time for that to occur.

[Zodiark1593]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:27 AM, ewitte said:

Technically it gets bypassed it hasn't really been cracked.

The AACS scheme used for Blu Ray comes to mind. There are ways to acquire keys from vulnerable devices or software, but direct attacks on the encryption are not used. So AACS has not been truly broken, as we require the keys. A true crack is only when we can decrypt a Blu Ray disc without the decryption keys. 

[Forbidden Wafer]

On 8/28/2023 at 11:51 PM, Kisai said:

You know who else does that? Apple.

 

Like, I jest, but it would not surprise me to see Apple buy Nintendo. They basically subscribe to the same mentality of "users want a good experience, not good hardware"

 

Appletendo, nintapple

[Dragonwinged]

Remember when companies had fun with their copy protection?

 

 

Here's a playlist of things developers have done instead of shitty drm like Denuvo. I want to see more stuff like this. We can have fun instead of giving legitimate players an inferior product.