Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[RockerBug17]

2 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

The incorrect take.

Elaborate.

[Indroid]

Responding to some people complaining that LMG hurt the small water block company due to bad review. Have you ever thought about what they are selling? A overpriced product that is there to scam idiots into buying it. Sending it to LMG to get shown on LTT was with the purpose of selling a inferior product. Yes how they handled with not sending it back was a mistake. But seriously it’s just another example of an product that is overpriced with crappy performance. Price doesn’t = performance. 

[RockerBug17]

1 minute ago, Drazil100 said:

There is defending someone and there is toxic supporting someone. Linus does a LOT of things right and he also gets into a LOT of controversies that are overblown and stupid due to poor phrasing during WAN show. This is not one of those cases. He has already publicly admitted fault for this one and he SHOULD take his lumps for his mistakes. Let him take his lumps, there will be plenty of controversies he SHOULDN'T be attacked for in the future.

All due respect, have you read what people are saying? Criticism is fine, but a lot of these criticism lack tact.

[Emperor Numerius]

3 minutes ago, iAxX said:

Seeing as the reply Linus got is mostly negative, even here. I seriously doubt they won't talk about this again. 

 

Curious to see how this will be addressed and if. Seeing as this is the first real crisis for the new CEO. 

 

This would be such a stain for the brand it'll be hard to remove for years. I can see "$10m lab btw" sticking every time they make a mistake, which people will be a lot more aware of now and they will be fact checking pretty much every LTT video. 

i feel like its going to be in every video that they do even something unnatural in. i mean if you go far enough you will see comments like that 

[Teksers]

8 hours ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Just for clarity and clarification, it is Linus's personal money invested in framework, not LTT or LMG. 

 Correct but then Linus should be the one ever again to review a laptop. Or comment on how repairable it is. That was the point GN was trying to make.

[eskimododo]

3 minutes ago, iAxX said:

Seeing as the reply Linus got is mostly negative, even here. I seriously doubt they won't talk about this again. 

 

Curious to see how this will be addressed and if. Seeing as this is the first real crisis for the new CEO. 

 

This would be such a stain for the brand it'll be hard to remove for years. I can see "$10m lab btw" sticking every time they make a mistake, which people will be a lot more aware of now and they will be fact checking pretty much every LTT video. 

Waiting for someone to create a LFC channel.. Linus Fact Checking..

[VisibleXela]

Just now, RockerBug17 said:

All due respect, have you read what people are saying? Criticism is fine, but a lot of these criticism lack tact.

No, you lack tact! /j

[ZombieMan762]

7 minutes ago, divito said:

Yes that is a valid view.

But as someone who used to write reviews for hardware, what Labs is attempting to do doesn't come down to "omg the guy couldn't even select the right settings." Some of what Steve showed came down to writer mistakes, or editor mistakes as well. The level of automation and standardization they're attempting is going to take many iterations before it's running smoothly. 

Yes, everyone can argue that it shouldn't be publishing information in videos while they're working through things. Unfortunately with the way Youtube works, and the size of LMG, refining to such a standard that people seem to be requesting is not all that realistic. What they're doing, and with their mortgages and staff salaries, they can't operate like Jay, or Steve. People can say it's an excuse, but that's just the reality. They have to work through this as best they can, even if bad data seeps into videos. Ultimately when the infrastructure and database/front-end of Labs becomes set, re-testing and having a valid data set will be all that matters. One could argue that they should go back and fix videos, but some of their utility will be lessened by that point.

 

None of that is going to matter until Linus has a change in attitude and pulls the reigns back a little but as you said they can't realistically do that with the financial obligations. That is no one's fault but their own and as GN/Steve said a self-inflicted problem. Even still, Linus refuses to acknowledge some of the problems like the Billet Labs waterblock video he doubled down on WAN and triple downed on in this thread. You have to admit to mistakes before you can fix them and blame shifting or saying, 'but we're people!' isn't admitting to problems. Its burying yourself deeper into the hole you dug yourself. 

 

If LTT Labs is giving them bad data right off the bat then that data needs to kept out of their videos until they're ready and not one second before. I get that Labs is a money sink and Linus needs to recuperate the cost as fast as possible but you're shooting yourself in the foot and growing too fast if the excuse for bad data is urgency in pumping content out. A lot of this space relies on accountability and trust. All that money sunk into labs is going to become a liability they can't recoup if people's first impressions of their product is one of questionable data and taking a dig at HUB/GN. Like it or not LTT has been taking shots at GN for a while now that attitude comes from the top down to where random employees that are in tour videos feel comfortable taking shots at other YT creators. 

[AlwaysFSX]

Just now, RockerBug17 said:

Elaborate.

Paying attention to the channel / company for many years. Kind of hard to miss the controversy, misinformation, and lack of effort.

 

(And before you tell me as well to go back to Twitter for being new, I've been around)

[Legitsu]

6 minutes ago, VisibleXela said:

 

It is a fact they did not pay off the water block until after this all blew up. Either that, or Linus is lying to make himself look worse. Which do you think it is?

and I am sorry where are you getting your time stamped sources on that?

 

linus said they have NOT currently written the check. makes sense because it hasn't even been a buisness day

 

and in steves own video billetlabs was only made aware of the block being auctioned of on the 11th of auguest

 

that was last friday today is monday linus likely didn't even know about it untill sunday at the earlist or more then likely only knew what was going on after steves video posted 

 

or is that to much for you to understand 

 

seems pretty convient for steve to throw that in the video KNOWING linus hasn't had time to deal with it properly YET

 

that is bullshit that is something steve should have absoutely reached out to linus for instend of pushing into a video so he can profit by manipulating the timeline to sell his point 

 

[MiltownClowns]

2 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Elaborate.

Attack the message not the messenger. Your ad hominem attacks only serve to make you look like you don't have facts to stand on so you attack your opponent.

[bandainamcofan]

1 minute ago, Indroid said:

Responding to some people complaining that LMG hurt the small water block company due to bad review. Have you ever thought about what they are selling? A overpriced product that is there to scam idiots into buying it. Sending it to LMG to get shown on LTT was with the purpose of selling a inferior product. Yes how they handled with not sending it back was a mistake. But seriously it’s just another example of an product that is overpriced with crappy performance. Price doesn’t = performance. 

Still not the point. If you want to arrive at that conclusion, do the test properly, then state your conclusions from the test. Once again, he didn't test it on the card it was intended for, and proceeded to claim that the product is bad anyway.

[VisibleXela]

1 minute ago, Legitsu said:

and I am sorry where are you getting your time stamped sources on that?

 

linus said they have NOT currently written the check. 

and in steves own video billetlabs was only made aware of the block being auctioned of on the 11th?

that was last friday today is monday

or is that to much for you to understand 

5 hours ago Linus said "we haven't sent payment."

 

The Gamers Nexus video is 8 hours old.

 

5 is a smaller number than 8.

[RockerBug17]

1 minute ago, MiltownClowns said:

Attack the message not the messenger. Your ad hominem attacks only serve to make you look like you don't have facts to stand on so you attack your opponent.

Name a fact that pertains to this situation.

[Texbobcat]

Just now, Indroid said:

Responding to some people complaining that LMG hurt the small water block company due to bad review. Have you ever thought about what they are selling? A overpriced product that is there to scam idiots into buying it. Sending it to LMG to get shown on LTT was with the purpose of selling a inferior product. Yes how they handled with not sending it back was a mistake. But seriously it’s just another example of an product that is overpriced with crappy performance. Price doesn’t = performance. 

It's not overpriced, it's a small run water-cooling system that is obviously going to be a lot more expensive than your corsair AIO. And it's not an inferior product it's meant for super small form factor computers for example building inside a ps2 case which in that scenario it would have better thermals than using air coolers not even accounting for the fact that you wouldn't be able to fit the stock gpu cooler or any cpu blocks.

[Guest]

@LinusTech Aside from improving processes to catch errors, possibly slowing down the production schedule, etc., I think the other thing to ask yourself is: are your staff comfortable speaking up to you and how much thought do you put into their concerns before saying "no this is fine, let's just go with it."

 

e.g., You said Adam advocated for switching to the 3090 at the time, and that when you spoke today, he did a really good job of expressing why it mattered. Did his argument improve since the shoot - or are you only now giving it weight because of the backlash? Did he express his reasoning the first time or is he now more comfortable doing so because he knows you're more open to it now?

 

I obviously don't know the answers to these questions. Maybe everything's fine, but on the last WAN Show you talked about streamers ignoring valid criticism because they're surrounded by people who will never criticize them. From the outside, this looks pretty similar.

[VeryScary]

6 minutes ago, jitteryzeitgeist said:

Yes, which is why this channel is a joke.

It's a joke because some people don't know the difference between a review and a video showing something LTT think is interesting?

[suits]

2 minutes ago, Teksers said:

 Correct but then Linus should be the one ever again to review a laptop. Or comment on how repairable it is. That was the point GN was trying to make.

That's a bad take. Having chunk change in the grand scheme of these things is not going to color coverage, not to mention he already doesn't do laptop reviews anyway, Alex does....

 

GN had good points but this was a self-righteous bad take.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, hysteresis said:

 (like did linus hawk it to another gpu cooler manufacturer to copy?)

SMH this is the kind of schizoposting  that justifies in Linus’ mind him digging his heels in and ignoring legitimate, sane criticism. There is absolutely 0% chance that anything within a million miles of being this conspiratorial occurred.

 

LMG did a crappy rush job of reviewing the prototype. It then got lost on a shelf somewhere, not scanned back into inventory or similar. The emails requesting it back were missed or ignored due to some combination of overwork and incompetence. Down the line, someone who has been given not enough time to find “any old weird stuff” to put in the LTX charity auction found it and were like “wtf is this? Oh lol this weird one off waterblock, let’s put it in.” and that’s that.

Additional correspondence from billet labs was ignored until a public stink was raised, making billet the squeaky wheel that finally got the grease.

 

It’s basic, everyday corporate incompetence. It’s unacceptable, and it’s awful for the billetlabs guys, but it’s not some sort of elaborate conspiracy. LMG don’t have the time to check the labels on their graphs, where do some people think they get time to plot the winners and losers in the hardware industry inside some evil lair?

[iAxX]

Just now, VisibleXela said:

5 hours ago Linus said "we haven't sent payment."

 

The Gamers Nexus video is 8 hours old.

 

5 is a smaller number than 8.

1.1m views in 8 hours. fucking hell lmao. 

"there won't be a big wan show segment" is a cope 

[VisibleXela]

Just now, iAxX said:

1.1m views in 8 hours. fucking hell lmao. 

"there won't be a big wan show segment" is a cope 

I'm still taking bets on when he walks that back

[Drazil100]

7 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

All due respect, have you read what people are saying? Criticism is fine, but a lot of these criticism lack tact.

It's the internet. The internet ALWAYS lacks tact. It's been lacking tact since the very beginning.

Linus has been in the game for a LONG time and by now he not only knows what to expect, but has a support structure to console him in times of extreme stress.

There will be a time to defend him on this in the future after they have fixed their processes and they have proven that they are serious about doing better. Now is not the time to defend him. Now is the time to take lumps.

[Teksers]

8 hours ago, manikyath said:

i dont actually pay attention to it, because i'm aware of the ties.. but i do agree with you.

 

but having that said - does it actually matter? we know linus's intentions with the framework investment. i feel like it would be safe to assume it doesnt further impact the judgement of the writers actually preparing the entire damn review that linus has a personal financial investment into his opinion that laptops should have replacement parts.

What Steve was trying to says, is that Linus should step down from reviewing laptops due to this reason. Someone else can do it but not him.

[RandomDude843]

2 minutes ago, Indroid said:

Responding to some people complaining that LMG hurt the small water block company due to bad review. Have you ever thought about what they are selling? A overpriced product that is there to scam idiots into buying it. Sending it to LMG to get shown on LTT was with the purpose of selling a inferior product. Yes how they handled with not sending it back was a mistake. But seriously it’s just another example of an product that is overpriced with crappy performance. Price doesn’t = performance. 

Enthusiast gear is never cheap. I strongly believe there is a market for it. Hell, people buy supreme-branded wrench lol

[MiltownClowns]

4 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Name a fact that pertains to this situation.

I'm sorry, but if you need me to spoon feed you the basics than maybe you should do some more rudimentary research before you hop in to a massive discussion like this.