Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[trustmebro16]

Lol everyone woke up and decided they're LMG shareholders giving linus a performance review today

 

Go touch grass

[surrey_nerd]

6 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

you would have been better off just getting chatGPT to come up with a response then this cowardly attempt to double down.

i think its time to downvote all LTT uploads on youtube until they learn their lesson.

[Kenro]

I've been watching LTT for a long time but decided to register to comment.

 

I mean why is this so hard to turn this around into something positive? Just admit the whole Billet thing was a screw up. Admit that you need to put more checks and balances. Done.

 

Just forget whole GN stuff, he obviously has personal reasons and there is some vendetta there. But who cares, just ignore it all. Address the valid issues raised, admit the screw up, promise to do better. Done, everyone loves you.

 

What is even the point to double down on Billet stuff? I mean Linus admitted that Adam or whoever and Luke both said it should be tested properly.

[JustSomeDudeOnAForum]

27 minutes ago, Gncsmd said:

There’s a reason LTT has been successful.  Don’t let the noise interfere with the plan.  Your team is on the right track.  “Haters gunna hate”.  44 minutes of pure cope.  
 

To Linus and the team.  This is what jealousy looks like.  If they’re jealous, you’re doing it right.  Pedal to the medal let them cope.  For some of you it will be the first time experiencing this, trust me when I tell you this, it’s normal.  Keep your eyes on the prize.  
 

- Some guy on the internet

This sounds deranged. Sycophantic, even. 

[hysteresis]

Just now, Kenro said:

I've been watching LTT for a long time but decided to register to comment.

 

I mean why is this so hard to turn this around into something positive? Just admit the whole Billet thing was a screw up. Admit that you need to put more checks in balances. Done.

 

Just forget whole GN stuff, he obviously has personal reasons and there is some vendetta there. But who cares, just ignore it all. Address the valid issues raised, admit the screw up, promise to do better. Done, everyone loves you.

I mean, if you were rich enough to say "I'm paying for this to go away" how would you react? 

[demikus]

Glad you don't plan to address this on Wan show, this is definitely something that should be addressed in a thoughtful and rational manner, when you respond to things on wan show you seem to respond too emotionally, and you don't always put yourself in the best light there. Though I do hope that even if you aren't happy with Steve's "journalistic practices" that time is spent properly reflecting on what was said and brought up in that video.

[trustmebro16]

4 minutes ago, surrey_nerd said:

you would have been better off just getting chatGPT to come up with a response then this cowardly attempt to double down.

i think its time to downvote all LTT uploads on youtube until they learn their lesson.

Lol it's not that serious

 

Nothing they wouldve said wouldve appeased the public anyway. You just want to see a grovel apology and then reply saying it's crocodile tears and "another youtube apology video"

 

Hes acknowledged it. Move on.

 

Steve said in his video he doesnt want this to be drama. The irony that you guys want to drag this out with whiny apology videos as if you're the victim

 

You are no a shareholder. He doesn't owe you anything. Don't let a little cancel culture power trip you

Edited August 15, 2023 by trustmebro16

[robkleinpeter]

Billet Labs deserves a fair shake.  Test it properly and let the chips fall where they may.  Sure, the price won't change and your recommendation might not change but at least we'll know definitely if their cooling block, well, cools.

[DestructiveLlama]

30 minutes ago, Gncsmd said:

There’s a reason LTT has been successful.  Don’t let the noise interfere with the plan.  Your team is on the right track.  “Haters gunna hate”.  44 minutes of pure cope.  
 

Look at all the perfect little people in the forum with their successful companies giving advice.  They have never made mistakes, they have never left a stone unturned.  They are all perfect.

 

To Linus and the team.  This is what jealousy looks like.  If they’re jealous, you’re doing it right.  Pedal to the medal let them cope.  For some of you it will be the first time experiencing this, trust me when I tell you this, it’s normal.  Keep your eyes on the prize.  
 

- Some guy on the internet

This is exactly the type of shit that will ruin a channel. If you want this channel to succeed, then you want them to fix the issues that GN brought up.

[Kenro]

Like who cares about GN journalistic practices. Just admit your wrongdoings, fix them and promise to do better. No one cares about what GN did wrong. Just fix the stuff that you legitimately screwed up, own up to it and move on. Community would love you way more for that.

 

Everyone makes mistakes, no one likes people who refuse to admit them and then try to attack someone else for deflection purposes. No one ever won or got any better as result of that.

[Sartre]

It's ok to make mistakes, even gigantic companies make mistakes. What's not ok, and what has been eroding my trust on LTT for years is how hasty everything is. When I'm watching a review to make a purchasing decision, I want someone who spent time with the product, who understands it, not someone that was shoved in front of a camera. 

 

GN has the right to be concerned. They have become THE benchmark for proper testing and unbiased reviews. They have changed corporate behavior by documenting problems. Newegg, power supplies exploding, cases catching on fire, for example.

 

If I were Steve, and had spent the majority of my time for the last decade building something that is trusted, through hard decisions and being tough on companies, I'd understand his concern about the lack of quality in testing. We all stand to lose if LMG doesn't get the lab right.

 

Be better, Linus.

[muxus]

So imagine, you send your dear screwdriver to a company to review, you say that the screwdriver is rated for x amount of torque the reviewer applys y torque and says your screwdriver is crap coz it didn't behave well with y amount of torque. In this case its even worse you sold(auctioned) the prototype of the product.  How would you feel if it was you?. And do you think that is ethic and a good review?... I'm sad to say but 80% of what GN said is true, and instead of being a big boy and apologizing, you are continuing to make excuses for behaviours you would consider inapropriate if they were directed at your products, thats being called being an hypocrite. This is not the 1st time you acted this way and we all hope you realise your faults. If you want companies to keep trusting you and to give you products to review you should apologize . Stop being self centered and imature. Also btw YOU DID THE SAME THING TO THE VERGE BUILD A PC VIDEO and it was as justifiable as GN video. Also framework ... this is a hard one... both of you are right i do believe you have a personal interest so i do believe you should not review "your" own products, is at the very least no matter what you do not ethic. But you are free to use them on your videos just don't rate them. With Asus there is also a bit of an interest... they messed up and you said nothing about it...

[hysteresis]

Just now, OverjoyedDonut said:

This is exactly the type of shit that will ruin a channel. If you want this channel to succeed, then you want them to fix the issues that GN brought up.

No man you just "don't get it" and steve is just a hater for expecting a product review to list accurate info about the product 

 

/s

[surrey_nerd]

2 minutes ago, Kenro said:

Like who cares about GN journalistic practices. Just admit your wrongdoings, fix them and promise to do better. No one cares about what GN did wrong. Just fix the stuff that you legitimately screwed up, own up to it and move on. Community would love you way more for that.

 

Everyone makes mistakes, no one likes people who refuse to admit them and then try to attack someone else for deflection purposes. No one ever won or got any better as result of that.

thats the awesome irony, complaining about journalistic integrity after what he personally did to billet labs LOL

[trustmebro16]

1 minute ago, muxus said:

So imagine, you send your dear screwdriver to a company to review, you say that the screwdriver is rated for x amount of torque the reviewer applys y torque and says your screwdriver is crap coz it didn't behave well with y amount of torque. In this case its even worse you sold(auctioned) the prototype of the product.  How would you feel if it was you?. And do you think that is ethic and a good review?... I'm sad to say but 80% of what GN said is true, and instead of being a big boy and apologizing, you are continuing to make excuses for behaviours you would consider inapropriate if they were directed at your products, thats being called being an hypocrite. This is not the 1st time you acted this way and we all hope you realise your faults. If you want companies to keep trusting you and to give you products to review you should apologize . Stop being self centered and imature. Also btw YOU DID THE SAME THING TO THE VERGE BUILD A PC VIDEO and it was as justifiable as GN video. Also framework ... this is a hard one... both of you are right i do believe you have a personal interest so i do believe you should not review "your" own products, is at the very least no matter what you do not ethic. But you are free to use them on your videos just don't rate them. With Asus there is also a bit of an interest... they messed up and you said nothing about it...

There's no need to dramatise the events of billet labs

 

It doesnt need to be re explained as if everyone doesn't understand it was a fjckup lol. You're acting like they don't realise it was a bad move and acting dumbfounded "how could they do this!?!"

 

There's no intent behind incompetence. A fuckup is just a fuckup. Stop over analysing it

[hysteresis]

Just now, surrey_nerd said:

thats the awesome irony, complaining about journalistic integrity after what he personally did to billet labs LOL

Didn't you read the response from linus? He's paying for the problem to go away so we can't criticize that anymore. 

[jamerz44]

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

If you're new to the channel, I understand why you might not know this, but we are extremely committed to improving our accuracy to the point where we are building out a $10M+ facility jam-packed full of equipment and engineering know-how. It's taking time, and this kind of aggressive expansion has been a learning curve for us, but to frame our recent actions as "sacrificing accuracy" is misleading at best. 

We need to make a lot of process changes to get to the point where everything is water-tight. That's a big part of why we added our new CEO Terren to our leadership team, but once again... things take time. He's been full time on the job for less than a single quarter and he's getting up to speed on all the things we are doing right... and yes... all the things we are doing wrong.

 

Trust me, we know. But we are making major investments in improving all of this and we won't stop.

If you were "extremely" committed to improving accuracy you would release fewer videos to ensure inaccuracies do not slip through and allow time for your writers and testers to paint a more comprehensive picture of the product. We know this because it's what your own employees were asking for in those working at LTT videos. If you ignore those pleas, and the same incredibly common sentiment among your fans on these forums, I can only assume you do not care about improving the accuracy of your videos all that much, at least in comparison to maximizing profit. Your refusal to even entertain the idea, to even mention it in your responses as one solution to the perceived problems, speaks volumes to where your priorities lie.

Why should I trust your accuracy in the future if I can't trust it right now? Ten million dollar lab or ten billion, it's worthless without the right methodology or reporting standards.

[MrSebSin]

Bro, you can say whatever you want for damage control and to justify things to yourself. At the end of the day, the problem is your Trust Me Guarantee is worth (bleep) all because I can’t trust you.

[trustmebro16]

2 minutes ago, hysteresis said:

Didn't you read the response from linus? He's paying for the problem to go away so we can't criticize that anymore. 

Nah you don't get it

 

These guys don't want growth, reflection or resolution

 

They just want blood and drama. Otherwise anything supportive or constructive is "bootlicking"

[Texbobcat]

3 minutes ago, hysteresis said:

Didn't you read the response from linus? He's paying for the problem to go away so we can't criticize that anymore. 

So, they lost almost three months of work waiting for linus to pay or to send it back, and their prototype has been released to the public so a protentional competitor can rip them off.

[trustmebro16]

Just now, Texbobcat said:

So, they lost almost three months of work waiting for linus to pay or to send it back, and their prototype has been released to the public so a protentional competitor can rip them off.

Ain't nobody going to rip off an unproven niche product for a 2021 product line targeting a sub segment

Esp not after all this heat

Stop reaching

[suits]

34 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

 IMO someone else needs to write the scripts and do videos on laptops.

 

He doesn't write the scripts, he just reads them. Why does it matter that he reads them...

[GarmsMarius]

Auctioning off a working prototype of another company is a massive oversight. Saying that you just need to tighten documentation seems like your just brushing off the severity of the issue. Either procedures were broken or they are not robust enough to begin with. While I understand people make mistakes. A mistake like this would seem to require a cascade of failures to happen in an sizable organization as LMG. I don't think just tightening documentation is going to be the answer that people are looking for.

[jazz9]

4 minutes ago, trustmebro16 said:

There's no need to dramatise the events of billet labs

 

It doesnt need to be re explained as if everyone doesn't understand it was a fjckup lol. You're acting like they don't realise it was a bad move and acting dumbfounded "how could they do this!?!"

 

There's no intent behind incompetence. A fuckup is just a fuckup. Stop over analysing it

The video they made can be defined by "incompetence"

Not returning it when it was asked for twice and then auctioning it off without authorization has little to do with incompetence though.

 

[Blademaster91]

15 minutes ago, trustmebro16 said:

I guess you're blind then or didn't read the 3 times he apologies in the OP post?

 

But yes. Muh boot lickers.

 

Or maybe you need some tech tips? Ctrl f "sorry" "apologize"

Where exactly did he apologize? His statement is a usual very corporate sounding response, deflect the blame, and just say they're listening even though LMG has been ignoring their viewers for a while now.

The amount of copium the angry LTT fans are on is just amazing, if only the raging fans making accounts to defend Linus would realize if LMG would listen to the constructive criticism pointed out by GN and the things people have said for years now, if LMG would improve the quality of videos and make sure the data in videos is accurate, then LMG would be doing even better as a source that could be trusted with benchmarks and reviews.