Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[WillHeard]

4 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT WAS TESTED PROPERLY: 

GASP! shocker I know but this is one of the instences where the test methodolgy CAN NOT Impact the result

to understand why you need to have a bit of a engineering and mechanical background as well as experience with waterblocks 

but the short extremely clipped version is is that

 

 

 there isn't really that much difference when it comes to waterblocks going from the 3090 - 4090 billet labs lists both are supported and no indication that there is any difference at order other than and I am guessing here: maby some slightly different screws because I think the holes in the 4090 fe pb are slightly different AND i MEAN slightly!

:  https://billetlabs.com/products/monoblock?variant=42564196696216:

 

but the critical take away is that the differences CAN NOT Impact the performance in the way seen which is just inexcusably substandard performance and honstly REALLY wierd and questionable design 

 

but beyond the astetic choices linus is right the cold plate uses a very old design and they are probly gambling on the fact that it being a massive piece of copper to pickup the slack. but 3090 to 4090 has no effing impact on the cold plate design being  what it is!

 

 

 

 

you know nothing about precision manufacturing or custom watercooling if you think this. stop making stuff up as you go

[VeryScary]

26 minutes ago, WillHeard said:

Sorry but if you don't see why Steve would feel the need to make this you're uninformed or not paying attention. Steve is one of like 5 people on earth with a platform big enough to make a video like this, and not lose their job

edit:

and with the credibility to do so. which he definitely has.

Not lose his job? Do you expect him to fire himself? 

[ZombieMan762]

5 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT WAS TESTED PROPERLY: 

GASP! shocker I know but this is one of the instences where the test methodolgy CAN NOT Impact the result

to understand why you need to have a bit of a engineering and mechanical background as well as experience with waterblocks 

but the short extremely clipped version is is that

 

 

 there isn't really that much difference when it comes to waterblocks going from the 3090 - 4090 billet labs lists both are supported and no indication that there is any difference at order other than and I am guessing here: maby some slightly different screws because I think the holes in the 4090 fe pb are slightly different AND i MEAN slightly!

:  https://billetlabs.com/products/monoblock?variant=42564196696216:

 

but the critical take away is that the differences CAN NOT Impact the performance in the way seen which is just inexcusably substandard performance and honstly REALLY wierd and questionable design 

 

but beyond the astetic choices linus is right the cold plate uses a very old design and they are probly gambling on the fact that it being a massive piece of copper to pickup the slack. but 3090 to 4090 has no effing impact on the cold plate design being  what it is!

 

 

 

 

 

Umm you clearly select either the 3090 or 4090 which means they are not the same product. 

[CaptainRan]

Not going to read Linus' response.  Just going to read the comments and form my opinion from that.

[jitteryzeitgeist]

Just now, ClarissKrays said:

I am suggesting that LTT contact Billet Labs and offer to make this right. I don't know what the solution is or what they would want. Maybe it's possible LTT could offer to buy the prototype back from whoever owns it now and send it to Billet? I don't know if that's feasible, but I would like to see them try to do something.

Ahh I see, the way it was worded and the way my (admittedly tired, big workout day) brain took it as Billet and LTT need to meet in the middle and smooth this out.

 

Yeah, sorry, that's my fault.  I agree with you.

[editor99]

No matter what controversy LMG is going through, I think we can all count on them to fix their mistakes. With all that they've contributed to the Youtube-Tech community, they deserve and earned the respect of many, and are continuing to search for improvement in their content. So, even with some setbacks, I'm sure that LMG will continue to provide informative and reliable content to us.

[VeryScary]

28 minutes ago, jitteryzeitgeist said:

HUB already dragged LTT.

 

It's not jealousy, it's watching the biggest name in the space dilute the credibility of all review outlets by putting out half-baked and inaccurate reviews.

Which reviews were inaccurate? 

[Catsrules]

1 minute ago, jitteryzeitgeist said:

There is no other block.

 

He stole their only working prototype.

Kind of hard to steal something when you paid for it. Billetlabs sent them a bill. 

I am really confused by the outrage here. Yeah it sucks that it happened but mistakes happen companies and people make mistakes. It sounds like LMG and Billetlabs are resolving the issue themselves. I haven't heard anything from Billetlabs, until I do I am assuming they are ok with whatever was arranged. (From the sound of it LMG just gave Billetlabs a blank check and Billetlabs wrote what they thought was it was valued at. )

If the person/company who was wronged is ok with it why shouldn't we be ok with it?

 

What exactly are we trying achieve here? 

[duke_seb]

I just want to say that video while being mostly fair was definitely harsh in its presentation.

 

the roughest part is the billet drama.  It seems odd to me that Steve would automatically think Linus was trying to sink a company.  Maybe they didn’t test it right but I’m sure Linus as a whole is a decent person.  As for the auction, no one at gamers nexus knows the details of anything related to that.  That to me look more like left hand and right hand at ltt didn’t know what was happening and created an unfortunate situation.

 

as for content errors.  Editors should definitely consider cutting out errors rather then just putting corrections in, however ltt isn’t the only channel that does that and to be honest sometime I kind of get a kick out of Linus bumbling something up and having it corrected in the edit.  To my it’s makes him and the channel seem more authentic… but maybe that’s just me.

 

steve said one thing repeatedly in the video that I don’t agree with.  The idea that the amount of uploads is a self imposed arbitrary amount that they don’t have to do.  I would think that GN having I’m sure way less staff and way less subscribers probably doesn’t know that self imposed actually is.  Ltt has a responsibility to its staff, lots of salary’s to pay, lots of equipment to buy to keep making engaging content.  Missing 1 video a week could potentially mean laying off a number of staff…. 
 

It’s a lot easier to control your product when you are 1 person and I’m sure that part of the reason Linus stepped down as ceo is that he sees some cracks that he wants to work on and the management side of it was taking his time away…

 

it amazes me that in a YT community of tech people Steve didn’t reach out behind the scenes and then make his video rather then do it this way

[Loopers]

55 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

friend? what because he replied to one of my posts Once on a forum?

 

way to make my point for me

who the hell does steve think he is? what gives him the right to point and say "naughty naughtly"

get off your high horse

 

 

I signed up just to respond to you. I've been reading since page 9 earlier today and you come off as either you're 12 year old who cannot control their emotions or on your own high horse. You're that fanboy Linus calls weird and more harmful than good. We get it, bud... You hate Steve and your redundant messaging is clear -- You. Hate. Steve.

 

There is always one of you who really stands out on every forum and right now, it's you. Linus is eating crow and those of us who can remain objective and avoid the emotional responses will call LMG out and they will hopefully learn from it. 

 

@others who keep repeating Steve is jealous or whatever weird responses...grow up. GN is good for the industry as much as LMG is. Both need to keep each other honest and how one receives constructive criticism determines their fate and builds character.

 

Linus goofed. He's human and he stepped down as CEO because this shit is overwhelming if I were to guess. Being responsible for 100+ is a lot.

 

@LinusTech You need to get out of your own way, bud. You deserve the money you've earned and your reputation. You worked hard for it. Your wife and I spoke for a bit during LTX and you can tell she's proud of you. You struggled early on and her job as a pharmacist helped get you to where you are.  With that said, slow down. Watch those videos from your staff about quality over quantity. They wish they had more time and less crunch.

 

You have an amazing staff, but tossing 10 million at the wall doesn't make you betterer as you'd say. More money doesn't mean bettererer gamer, right? You need to get back to basics. You're building the castle so fast, it can't keep up... structurally. You test your sponsors and all, but maybe test yourself with some of your own introspection and get back to what you guys did best and fix the wrongs and make shit right.

IMO, Steve should have reached out for comment prior to publication so you could respond to what was about to go live. Steve did you dirty in that regard, but I still respect both of you and this shit builds character and we need both of you in the game. 

Learn and let live.

[Wol0]

3 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

If I was Linus I would call up whoever offered ONE HUNDRED MILLION, sell the whole operation for ninety million, and walk away because of all the presumptuous jackasses commenting in here, 'cause, ya know, a corporation would DEFINETELY come to their forums to discuss the state of internal LTT affairs, and they'd DEFIFNETLY take your criticisms into consideration.

 

They won't know how good they've got it until you're gone, Linus. It's a sad truth. Only then will they be begging for you and all your flaws.

What are you even talking about? If people don't get what they're looking for re:engagement.. then they'll just leave? It's not like LMG has a patent on a business that has a YouTube channel and a forum hosted on checks Invision.

[Chilith]

2 minutes ago, SchnitzelDaemon said:

Response seems to be a bit "sorry, not sorry". Some serious tightening up of processes needed here and a YouTube response video needed. 

Since the sorry not sorry response the amount of paying subs on Floatplane has been in freefall. So seems people are not liking how LMG (Linus) has replied to this this drama so far.

[VectavisAsmadi]

I think that the video did have some points. I think it wouldn't hurt lmg to get a few more hires in to help push quality up and maybe a disclaimer on the testing methodology still being under construction would make a lot of sense and it would honestly help from all sides. 

 

I think GN calling short Circut a "review" channel is a bit stupid it's never called a review. 

 

I also think that GN is also not considering that LMG is a very different media outlet then they are. so the pressures are different. doesn't excuse the problem but it really changes the way one SHOULD look at this: Additionally as long as LMG continues to own their mistakes and move forward I don't take issue with this so long as I see true effort to continue avoiding repeating mistakes. 

[jitteryzeitgeist]

1 minute ago, VeryScary said:

Which reviews were inaccurate? 

Apparently *checks notes*

 

All of them

[ZombieMan762]

1 minute ago, ClarissKrays said:

I am suggesting that LTT contact Billet Labs and offer to make this right. I don't know what the solution is or what they would want. Maybe it's possible LTT could offer to buy the prototype back from whoever owns it now and send it to Billet? I don't know if that's feasible, but I would like to see them try to do something.

 

Actually kind of alarming Linus said nothing about getting the waterblock back from whoever won the auction. That is Billet Labs IP he allowed to get into someone else's hands which can have huge financial ramifications for their business future. 

[terozzz]

8 minutes ago, m9x3mos said:

This next wan show I'm gonna get my popcorn ready. 

He should do an interview with Steve. 

Oh im going to be there, like a spike in Linuses azz. 

[cowsgomooo]

3 minutes ago, divito said:

Since the Labs' inception, growing pains were consistently pointed out in videos or on the WAN show. It's obviously discouraging that there are issues with processing and editing across the various teams that are ending up in videos. But I'm not really sure people are grasping the scope of what LMG has become.

Is some of it self-inflicted? Absolutely. The schedule they operate with is one major point that has been brought up a lot, and is referenced in my large earlier post. This isn't a writer, writing a script, personally testing stuff, writing more, re-testing, and then shooting it with a camera operator and sending it all to an editor. Whether the schedule changes is immaterial to their workflow and process, and they're obviously going to have to iron it out as they learn and program the equipment, develop methodologies, standards, visual styles and formats.

The results of this video, (and really, Terren's new role) won't be seen immediately in the content. As their schedule is packed and hectic, the videos that are being released have been written/recorded for some time.

My guess is this is probably related as well to why Linus is stepping down as CEO. 

 

Just now, VeryScary said:

Which reviews were inaccurate? 

The entire news industry is just Gell-Mann Amnesia, colourized. Lol. Not saying this to discount any of the allegations but you'd be hard pressed to find *one* media outlet which gets >60% of what they publish completely "accurate." Nothing but the truth and all.

[VisibleXela]

Just now, duke_seb said:

I just want to say that video while being mostly fair was definitely harsh in its presentation.

 

the roughest part is the billet drama.  It seems odd to me that Steve would automatically think Linus was trying to sink a company.  Maybe they didn’t test it right but I’m sure Linus as a whole is a decent person.  As for the auction, no one at gamers nexus knows the details of anything related to that.  That to me look more like left hand and right hand at ltt didn’t know what was happening and created an unfortunate situation.

 

as for content errors.  Editors should definitely consider cutting out errors rather then just putting corrections in, however ltt isn’t the only channel that does that and to be honest sometime I kind of get a kick out of Linus bumbling something up and having it corrected in the edit.  To my it’s makes him and the channel seem more authentic… but maybe that’s just me.

 

steve said one thing repeatedly in the video that I don’t agree with.  The idea that the amount of uploads is a self imposed arbitrary amount that they don’t have to do.  I would think that GN having I’m sure way less staff and way less subscribers probably doesn’t know that self imposed actually is.  Ltt has a responsibility to its staff, lots of salary’s to pay, lots of equipment to buy to keep making engaging content.  Missing 1 video a week could potentially mean laying off a number of staff…. 
 

It’s a lot easier to control your product when you are 1 person and I’m sure that part of the reason Linus stepped down as ceo is that he sees some cracks that he wants to work on and the management side of it was taking his time away…

 

it amazes me that in a YT community of tech people Steve didn’t reach out behind the scenes and then make his video rather then do it this way

It doesn't matter what Linus was trying to do, I couldn't possibly care less. What he (or his company, rather) did do was misuse a product, publicly drag it, keep their prototype, refuse to give it back, auction it off for charity, and only pay them back for it after a giant stink was made about it.

 

Oh, and then he complained that there was a giant stink made about it instead of coming to him quietly. Y'know, because when everyone was quiet they were so keen on paying Billet back for it.

[Texbobcat]

1 minute ago, Loopers said:

I signed up just to respond to you. I've been reading since page 9 earlier today and you come off as either you're 12 year old who cannot control their emotions or on your own high horse. You're that fanboy Linus calls weird and more harmful than good. We get it, bud... You hate Steve and your redundant messaging is clear -- You. Hate. Steve.

 

There is always one of you who really stands out on every forum and right now, it's you. Linus is eating crow and those of us who can remain objective and avoid the emotional responses will call LMG out and they will hopefully learn from it. 

 

@others who keep repeating Steve is jealous or whatever weird responses...grow up. GN is good for the industry as much as LMG is. Both need to keep each other honest and how one receives constructive criticism determines their fate and builds character.

 

Linus goofed. He's human and he stepped down as CEO because this shit is overwhelming if I were to guess. Being responsible for 100+ is a lot.

 

@LinusTech You need to get out of your own way, bud. You deserve the money you've earned and your reputation. You worked hard for it. Your wife and I spoke for a bit during LTX and you can tell she's proud of you. You struggled early on and her job as a pharmacist helped get you to where you are.  With that said, slow down. Watch those videos from your staff about quality over quantity. They wish they had more time and less crunch.

 

You have an amazing staff, but tossing 10 million at the wall doesn't make you betterer as you'd say. More money doesn't mean bettererer gamer, right? You need to get back to basics. You're building the castle so fast, it can't keep up... structurally. You test your sponsors and all, but maybe test yourself with some of your own introspection and get back to what you guys did best and fix the wrongs and make shit right.

IMO, Steve should have reached out for comment prior to publication so you could respond to what was about to go live. Steve did you dirty in that regard, but I still respect both of you and this shit builds character and I no matter what we need both of you in the game. 

Learn and let live.

He dd more than just goof, he bashed Billetlabs 3+ times and gave a sub par apology for any of it.

[jitteryzeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Catsrules said:

Kind of hard to steal something when you paid for it. Billetlabs sent them a bill. 

I am really confused by the outrage here. Yeah it sucks that it happened but mistakes happen companies and people make mistakes. It sounds like LMG and Billetlabs are resolving the issue themselves. I haven't heard anything from Billetlabs, until I do I am assuming they are ok with whatever was arranged. (From the sound of it LMG just gave Billetlabs a blank check and Billetlabs wrote what they thought was it was valued at. )

If the person/company who was wronged is ok with it why shouldn't we be ok with it?

 

What exactly are we trying achieve here? 

Accurate review sites and someone who doesn't treat other peoples lives, careers, and work as a joke.

[Legitsu]

4 minutes ago, ZombieMan762 said:

 

Umm you clearly select either the 3090 or 4090 which means they are not the same product. 

order both let us know about that

[Alvin853]

23 minutes ago, knocknock said:

 

@LinusTech Can you address the points GN made about Conflict of interest? The parts about showing bias towards the brands you have partnerships with (i.e Noctua and I think he mentioned ASUS in the video as well)

The ASUS one is especailly problematic, LTT did a video a couple weeks ago "secret shopping our sponsors", and although the ASUS experience was terrible, they still got 3/5 stars. Linus then went on WAN show explaining why (which again is not really fixing your mistakes, most people that watched the LTT video don't watch WAN show) and the WAN show statement was pretty much entirely marketing BS, you can tell Linus prepared something to say to dismiss the critics, while the true reason very well could have been ASUS being the title sponsor for LTX. Going on WAN show over and over again defending your videos "it's not because they paid us money" becomes hard to believe at some point. Credibility for LMG is at an all time low, either they are absolutely incompetent when it comes to tech or they are much more biased by material relations than they want to admit.

[Leksi T]

13 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

If you're new to the channel, I understand why you might not know this, but we are extremely committed to improving our accuracy to the point where we are building out a $10M+ facility jam-packed full of equipment and engineering know-how. It's taking time, and this kind of aggressive expansion has been a learning curve for us, but to frame our recent actions as "sacrificing accuracy" is misleading at best. 

We need to make a lot of process changes to get to the point where everything is water-tight. That's a big part of why we added our new CEO Terren to our leadership team, but once again... things take time. He's been full time on the job for less than a single quarter and he's getting up to speed on all the things we are doing right... and yes... all the things we are doing wrong.

 

Trust me, we know. But we are making major investments in improving all of this and we won't stop.

  

I really was hoping you'd not post something like this today.  You have said many times, that you are working to improve.  It is well known the amount of money and personnel you're pouring into labs.  As far as whether you're sacrificing accuracy or not, it's not so clear to alot of people.  I doubt anything you can say today will change much.  And "new to the channel"? Well, Nodachi's account age aside...  Many of the people posting here are long time viewers seriously concerned that things have slipped too much within LMG despite all the effort.  

 

The bulk of your community isn't going away just because GN said stuff.  But while we obviously want to be heard, I think what most of us are asking is for sometime near-ish in the future, is a full response from the company with details addressing the issues raised. Maybe if something like that doesn't happen, then there might be a bigger problem.

 

OK, enough of me pretending I can speak for the community.  Completely IMO:  Stop wasting time typing to us.  Read as much as you wanna read, go do your home things, whatever.  It's late on a Monday.  I'm sure there's thousands of posts incoming for you everywhere. I think it's clear that your community is concerned.  Tomorrow morning, you have a team at your disposal to deal with this shitstorm, or maybe you got peeps on it already.

 

I suck at writing. Trying to say what I wanna say and not be full of it is def. not my strong point and it's giving me a headache.  I really do wish the best for you and LMG, especially considering everything going on in your space, but I'm gonna lay off the KB myself.

 

 

[Reclus]

3 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

If I was Linus I would call up whoever offered ONE HUNDRED MILLION, sell the whole operation for ninety million, and walk away because of all the presumptuous jackasses commenting in here, 'cause, ya know, a corporation would DEFINETELY come to their forums to discuss the state of internal LTT affairs, and they'd DEFIFNETLY take your criticisms into consideration.

 

They won't know how good they've got it until you're gone, Linus. It's a sad truth. Only then will they be begging for you and all your flaws.

I just can't...

100 mil corpo and you are telling them that WE don't know how good we have it with them?!?!?

WE will be begging for them to come back?!!?

This just screams pitiful.

I really was not aware how low the fanbase of LTT has fallen, I really was under the impression that people watching LTT can really think for themselves and be critical of people they often watch and enjoy. Boy was I wrong. 

[VeryScary]

1 minute ago, jitteryzeitgeist said:

Apparently *checks notes*

 

All of them

And comments like this is why many people won't take this seriously