Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[e22big]

18 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

what exactly are you talking about?  because now I'm confused

if the cooler, then that was auctioned, it's said in the video, linus admitted it even here in the thread

then perhaps I've heard it wrong, apologised if that's the case, I'll review the video later

[Asphult]

36 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

We talk constantly about how we intend to move forward and make better content. It's just taking longer than any of us would like. If everything had gone according to plan, we'd have our camera range, theater room, and acoustic chamber done like 6 months ago. Instead our warehouse is torn apart right now because they had to reinforce our roof in order to support the heat pumps that we've been trying to get procured since last summer.

The real world is messy, and the more cooks you have in the kitchen, the more room there is for error.

 

With that said, if all you want is a non-ambiguous statement that we're going to keep trying to get better, then here it is. We're going to keep trying to get better. Gary did a wonderful 'state-of-the-union' update for the company this morning about recent milestones and what we have in store. Those investments will keep flowing, and I promise that they will be a win for consumers and the tech industry.

For now, it's hard to do because I'm frustrated by the timelines too, but all I can do is say, "Stay tuned. it's upward from here and we're really excited."

The core issue here is not that the editorial quality of the videos are lacking in-depth, extensive equipment to further enhance the video. It's the very basics, which are not something that is often appreciated. From minor errors and corrections to incorrect benchmark results, it undermines the credibility of the results gained from your LTT Lab investments ensuring LTT has in-depth, complicated testing equipment.

 

There is a significant amount of shit flung towards you, and I'm unlikely to change your stance, but please see these comments as people wanting you to be better. I applaud you for having invested equipment into ensuring your videos are at a higher journalistic standards than the rest, employing more workforce to create future online databases for all consumers to see, especially when it isn't expected by anyone. It's a massive endeavour, but that comment there says a little to me that you should show a little more focus on the basics. Maybe I am wrong, BUT please re-evaluate it, if not publicly at least I hope privately you can look back and see some of the mistakes made. 

[esponrru]

2 minutes ago, Rimson said:

My boy... please... do not aspire to be Linus or anyone else, be yourself and be fucking proud of it !! ffs!

Thank you for the reply! I meant to succeed in my field as he has in his.

[Mrpizzaeater145]

I smell another youtuber boxing match. 

[AlTech]

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

Billet sent us a quote. I don't know or care how they arrived at the value. If they're good, I'm good.

As for what steps we're taking, you're talking about an outlier issue that has happened once in 10+ years of operation. There won't be a new SOP to ensure we don't accidentally auction stuff. We just need to tighten up some documentation.

So mediocrity is okay so long as it doesn't happen too often? The fact that LMG illegally sold something and yet no SOPs will be changed to prevent it happening again is negligent conduct. If this happens again one might even be able to make a legal case for theft due to reckless disregard for who owns what property which in and of itself is likely to be a criminal offence.

 

I'm not even sure how it's possible for such an error to occur by accident because if you don't own an item you can't sell it without explicit permission. If the company providing a review sample wants it back, then it's not yours. If they say you can keep it then it may be yours to keep but you should still double check with them to see if they're okay with you selling it for a charity auction.

[jebus321]

1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

If post count is all that matter (it doesn't), then I've got you beat.  This isn't just "making drama", it's constructive criticism.  LTT used to have a much higher standard.  Those days are gone, but that doesn't mean they can't return.

 

Plenty of people are definitely joining just to leave angry, non-constructive comments, and that sucks.  But that doesn't mean that GN isn't right in his criticism.  It was a very uncomfortable video for them to make (which was also completely demonetized, as a show of good faith that it's not meant to cause drama for profit), as Steve and Linus are friends.  But LMG is a corporation, and they need to be treated as such.  

 

As for contacting people before reporting, I don't believe that's necessary or even necessarily standard, but hey, we all have different ideas of journalistic standards).  Let's say you're right.  It doesn't change anything.  The criticism against LMG's actions, especially when there's an easy solution to fix it, are still valid.  Maybe some criticism is warranted towards GN for not reaching out, and if so, that should also 100% be brought forward.  But two poor choices don't cancel each other out.   We as the consumer shouldn't be happy just ignoring consistent problems.

Reaching out before posting something that is meant to be comment on a specific entity is seen as best practice. Standard? No, expected? Yes. 

 

Especially when the person writing the piece has done so for other entities in the past. 

 

Does it make me personally question the motives of the writer in this case? No, but will others question those motives based on this fact. Yes absolutely. 

[nnmn]

3 minutes ago, MarkPol88 said:

It raises questions why GN did not reach out - maybe Steve knew that Linus would talk with him, maybe clear some allegations and it did not fit well with the video?

Or maybe he wanted to just say his piece and see how LMG reacts?

Who knows?

That is why it is concerning - up to date Steve usually reached out even to mostly "evil" corporations, but not his "colleague"?

It just fuels "hit piece" conspirators.

And imagine if the video included "We reached out to Linus and LMG and this is their statement/ they choose to not issue any statement". Sounds better, doesn't it?

 

Imo because Steve is presenting and critiquing the same published LMG media that any regular viewer can find. Asking for additional context privately that we viewers don't freely have the privilege of doing that seems unfair to the us. Any context that could have possibly been provided to Steve either should have or been made public by LMG initially or included in the original videos in the first place (preferably not as pinned comments). Instead it seems Linus is throwing Steve under the bus for not contacting them privately first. 

 

We shouldn't need another organization to force LMG's hand into being quality, transparent, and honest-- LMG should be doing it themselves on their own initiative. We're supposed to trust them right? Would it have been better if Steve reached out? Probably, but not necessary imo for the reasons above. Plus a lot of the critique is based on clearly wonky data, obvious errors, and poor QC, there's no 'allegations' about it. The block being auctioned "for charity" doesn't make up that it's a huge f'up in the first place. "We're only human, here's some money you can make another one" doesn't magically fix that either. If they're all "human" maybe they should treat their employees like humans and not have them churn out 25+ videos a week.

[RichardH]

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

I have been a follower and fan for quite a while now.  I follow all your channels quite avidly.  I do not have a pitchfork.

 

That being said, there was some truth to some of what Steve pointed out.  Maybe it wasn't done in the manner that would have been best for you, but it can still be something you use to grow.  In my honest opinion, the videos have had issues with inaccuracies.  Now, if we are just all here to get the facts only, and no entertainment, then this is a huge problem.  But that is not what your channel presents to a user like me.  I watch because I genuinely enjoy the characters we see on the screen, you especially, but everyone.  You are an entertainment channel, and in that you do an exceptional job.   The problem, is with your expanse into the lab, you seem to want to be both an entertainment powerhouse, and somewhere where people go for the straight facts.  However, in striving for that, there have been missteps.  It does seem like things are more and more rushed.  But hey guess what, that is not the end of the world.  Every company that grows exponentially has some growing pains, and its okay that you all do too.  Again, this sucks right now, but it gives you a point to grow from.

 

The Billet Labs thing though really was a bit of a misstep.  I do not mean the selling it (or auctioning it), I had no doubt that was just an internal foul-up.  No, the testing it on the wrong GPU and blasting them and then thinking that didn't matter . . .yeah you read the room wrong on that one.   But hey guess what, it's not the first time!  I personally believe you read the room wrong on the backpack warranty too.  Not the whether to offer a warranty or not, but the t-shirts . . . yeah a bit callus.   And even further GUESS WHAT . . . I am sure you will make a bunch more mistakes because . . . and this is the important part . . .because we ALL DO.  Own it, fix it and move on.  Edison's quotes about light bulbs and finding a thousand ways not to do it comes to mind.

 

Today sucks, but tomorrow will be a new day.  You have a wonderful company that brings joy to many, myself included.  The WAN show is literally the highlight of my week (yeah, not sure if that speaks to how entertaining it is, or how lackluster my week is).   You make great products, love the screwdriver.  You have a great team.  You have a lovely family.  Today might suck, but that will just make tomorrow all the better.

 

And this too shall pass . . .

 

 

[Symion]

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

Getting all the details before publication is *NOT* the opposite of journalistic integrity.

This isn't about being on a side... There's no war. You don't need to fight. You need to slow down and think.... 

Yeah, no. That's not how that works. GN was reporting on the facts of the Lab's wrong numbers, inaccuracies in your videos and the fact that your company auctioned off something that did not belong to you. If he had been reporting on private matters like something you said to an employee one on one then yes there is the expectation that you would be contacted for your side before publication but in this case it would be a courtesy. The fact that you are engaging in the same devil may care attitude that GN says is the root of this problem even here speaks volumes about the truth in what GN's piece explores.

[maxstuff.net]

59 minutes ago, Middcore said:

 

It's immaterial. An auction is a form of sale and it's contemptible to pretend there's a difference. Nobody seriously thinks the amount of money made would seriously benefit LMG's bottom line even if they kept the proceeds, but it wasn't theirs to dispose of and they exposed this small company to the loss of their IP. "Yes we basically kinda sorta stole this, but we didn't profit by it (except the profit we made from the video ahem ahem), charity did!" as if they're fucking Robin Hood or something? 

Agreed, Linus said the compensated Billet (whether enough or not, who knows). I'm just trying to point out what the person might have meant. That said I don't think it's common to have a "sale" for charity, but specifically an auction.

[Nissen]

11 minutes ago, IndustrialBananaBread said:

I can only imagine how much of a mud flinging match the live chat would be haha

 

It can be at times also with the people involved in the discussion. But it is important to do review and why not make it public and open.

 

The goal being:

"Tech media managers are held to account in 'whatever-the-show-will-be-called' for their choice and angle of stories and for their ethics."

 

It is a healthy discussion to have on what is good/bad/brings value/can be improved and who better to judge than ones competitors? Keeps everyone on their toes and help each other with different viewpoints on a topic/situation/coverage.

 

Sure a lot of the time people will be very defensive, but they still have to give their point of view and arguments and listen to the others where often some agree and others don't. And a few times mistakes are acknowledge/recognized or will be reflected more upon. Something everyone at the table and the viewers can learn from.

 

And don't forget the content value aspect. @LinusTech 

[atxcyclist]

9 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

If post count is all that matter (it doesn't), then I've got you beat.  This isn't just "making drama", it's constructive criticism.  LTT used to have a much higher standard.  Those days are gone, but that doesn't mean they can't return.

 

Plenty of people are definitely joining just to leave angry, non-constructive comments, and that sucks.  But that doesn't mean that GN isn't right in his criticism.  It was a very uncomfortable video for them to make (which was also completely demonetized, as a show of good faith that it's not meant to cause drama for profit), as Steve and Linus are friends.  But LMG is a corporation, and they need to be treated as such.  

 

As for contacting people before reporting, I don't believe that's necessary or even necessarily standard, but hey, we all have different ideas of journalistic standards).  Let's say you're right.  It doesn't change anything.  The criticism against LMG's actions, especially when there's an easy solution to fix it, are still valid.  Maybe some criticism is warranted towards GN for not reaching out, and if so, that should also 100% be brought forward.  But two poor choices don't cancel each other out.   We as the consumer shouldn't be happy just ignoring consistent problems.

 

It is absolutely the standard for journalism though, and I don't know why some people in here don't understand that, that is an expected step in making a news article so you get your information correct. My issue with Steve is that for all the other videos like this he/Gamer's Nexus have made, they were in contact with the CEO or ownership of them (Newegg, ASUS, and etc.), so skipping that step here either looks like shoddy journalism on GN's behalf, or just actual drama-making. I'm also only holding Steve to the standard he has seemingly not had an issue meeting up until now.

[ripslyx]

3 hours ago, LinusTech said:

we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity

This is completely irrelevant, and shows that your team has grown too large, too quickly to effectively communicate.

 

3 hours ago, LinusTech said:

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

To evaluate something as a product requires you to evaluate its potential audience. As an engineering sample, many of the problems you had with construction can probably be mitigated with future versions. As for pricing, you know as well as anyone how many people will spend more money for something because it's cool (whale events and tickets, your backpack, your screwdriver etc.) rather than being the absolute best bang for your buck. Your refusal to retest something when you ignored the design specifications sent by the manufacturer calls to question the methodology behind the entire organization's policies on presenting accurate data. Billet Labs deserves a fair chance to be recognized as a brand that can deliver great performance on a visually unique solution that wealthier consumers could afford to buy if they wanted to build a PC with that aesthetic.

 

I want to be able to continue to support your company, because I have been watching your content since 2011, and I think you have the best of intentions most of the time. Having bought your products and understanding your standards of quality within them, I would hope that you would extend some of the same effort into your testing methodology. You need to listen to Luke more about these controversies. This will be a good test for Terren...

Edited August 15, 2023 by ripslyx
Provide more information about what Linus could do the learn from this situation.

[Rimson]

2 minutes ago, esponrru said:

Thank you for the reply! I meant to succeed in my field as he has in his.

Good for you, try to do it without losing your integrity
 

[Vishera]

4 minutes ago, Middcore said:

Ah yes, how can we forget Linus's "otherworldly achievement"? 

Maybe Linus should make something marketable because it's an egregious waste of money no matter how cool it looks.

[jebus321]

4 minutes ago, the9thdude said:

OK...

 

If Steve was trying to do something with this video, such as actually trying to get LMG to implement some actual changes rather than a "it'll get better, trust me bro" statement, wouldn't this be the best way to do it? We've seen from controversies in the past, such as the backpack, those kinds of statements aren't cutting it anymore. GN let LMG get away from it once, and they seemingly haven't improved.

 

Whether you agree with GN's methods or not, you are here, on the LTT forum, discussing his video, adding fuel to the fire and drawing attention to this issue. GN is getting what they wanted out of the video.

Questioning the methods of someone who is questioning others methods makes this an interesting conversation to have. 

 

If you think about it, if the process of creating the video contains errors does that not then call into question the conclusions of the piece? 

 

This is all just a thought experiment on my part I genuinely don't have much of an opinion on this at this stage and will wait for any follow up that may come, with a bit more detail on what underlying issues which is the part I find interesting. 

 

Coming to bad conclusions is something we all do on basically a daily basis. 

[JoostinOnline]

4 minutes ago, jebus321 said:

Reaching out before posting something that is meant to be comment on a specific entity is seen as best practice. Standard? No, expected? Yes. 

That's a fair and good point.  But again, I think focusing on GN not sending Linus an email completely misses the main point.  The main problem with LMG still exists.

 

  

2 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I'm also only holding Steve to the standard he has seemingly not had an issue meeting up until now.

To avoid a double post I'm adding this.  As I said above, that makes a fair point.  But again, I think you're ignoring LMG's problem.  And as I said, two wrongs don't cancel each other out.

[Gilded Poo]

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

1. There is no difference between "we sold it" and "we auctioned it." Adding "for charity" is an absurd deflection and a gilt trip. The semantics here don't matter, the fact is you took a prototype that looks little-to-nothing like anything else on the market, and sold it. Own it.

2. A "miscommunication" is fancy business speak for "we got caught, oops!" There is no miscommunication on the planet that makes that make sense. That's actually insane. You (and/or your people) were simply careless with a prototype of a product you poorly tested and didn't like. Instead of making excuses, just say "we screwed up" and leave it at that. Stating it was a "miscommunication" leaves fault up in the air, and leaves the reader to wonder who, if anyone, was actually at fault. Very dishonest framing.

3. Lastly, what you do privately after public issues is COMPLETELY irrelevant and burying this response in a forum you control is cowardly. This is the fundamental issue with you and your company, every time any controversy pops off as a result of your public decisions, you cower down with your tail between your legs and post passive aggressive nonsense in obscure threads or on Twitter. Effectively attempting to bury the issues exposed by others, opposed to publicly addressing them... If you actually addressed these issues publicly instead of cowering like a wounded abused dog, you'd probably have more respect and a lot less people willing to come at LMG with pitchforks.

And before people come at me for not being nice, remember, kindness is what lost Billet Labs a working prototype. 

[ff2009]

11 minutes ago, IDontUseLicensedWindows said:

What about the whole "We reached out to [insert company] for comment, but they did not reply"? GN has done that for other things. Not picking a side, but he (Linus) does have a point.

Reaching Linus or LMG wouldn't make any difference.

Many of the points in the video have been raised by the community several times in the last few months/years and have been ignored, or dismissed by linus just because.

[esponrru]

Just now, Rimson said:

Good for you, try to do it without losing your integrity
 

I can imagine is tough because at the end of the day we humans inevitably care about the bottom line. But I’ll try!!! Thanks

[igormp]

16 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

I'm a bit late to this thread...But the central problem is that Linus wants LMG to be seen as something else. It's a bit like Lisa wanting AMD to stop being seen as the "budget" CPU company, and taken more seriously. When you're building something to test products and calling it the "Lab", it gives a much different tone than Linus just saying that him and his team tested it. It gives off a vibe that there's something more serious going on...Where Steve discusses frame rate data being incorrect, probably because of settings changing somewhere, that is unacceptable. You should ensure that EVERYTHING is working properly, basically a dry run, before you start publishing data and using it as an authoritative source of information. If you can't get that right, you will be seen as a joke, and not someone who cares about the product.

 

Even where Linus complained about having to spend extra money to do better testing is simply stating where his mind is. He is more concerned about spending a bit of extra money(especially the first time around) than providing an accurate view of the product. A small startup company goes to LMG because of their size, and Linus and his team totally misuse the product, and claim it's "bad", probably severely hurting that company. No one claims LMG is perfect, LMG itself included. That doesn't absolve them of responsibility for their mistakes. Even if the issues Steve talks about might be overblown, they are affecting LMG, and the level of quality they're producing with their videos. They won't be taken as a real authoritative source until they fix these issues.

Agreed 100%. Furthermore, from the few videos that I saw that claimed that the results came from the lab, their methodology was still wrong. 

 

There's no point in investing money in equipment and whatnot if the methodology is still flawed and their content is still rushed, which will lead to mistakes and poor quality. Only thing you get is bragging rights for expensive equipment, but that won't change the joke status. 

 

I believe most people don't really take ltt as a reliable source of data, but rather just a funny, techy entertainment channel, which they indeed are good at it (when they can actually finish a project or come with a reasonably done video instead of the current rushed stuff). 

 

GN does provide better data, but I can't stand watching a video just for graphs, I'd rather just jump into a website (and that's why I love phoronix of the likes of anandtech).

[4bettingrags]

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't enjoying this. LTT and his merry band of deluded cultists are attempting to contain the damage. I'd always known this day would come. I had an account here in 2014, and even then I always felt something was amiss. This insufferable clown needs to fade into obscurity only after he's spent a fortune lawyering up to defend his cash cow. How he's succeeded this far was sheer dumb luck on the part of a now-defunct company called "NCIX".

 

 

Pro-tip: stop being LTT apologists and support independent journalism. LTT is no better than MSM outlets, spewing propaganda for "entertainment purposes" just to line the pockets of his corporate cash cow enterprise that'll soon die.

 

PS: You reap what you sow.

[Drazil100]

4 minutes ago, nnmn said:

Imo because Steve is presenting and critiquing the same published LMG media that any regular viewer can find. Asking for additional context privately that we viewers don't freely have the privilege of doing that seems unfair to the us. Any context that could have possibly been provided to Steve either should have or been made public by LMG initially or included in the original videos in the first place (preferably not as pinned comments). Instead it seems Linus is throwing Steve under the bus for not contacting them privately first. 

I agree with your conclusion but I strongly disagree with the logic that got there. Fairness shouldn't apply. If Steve has the ability to contact Linus (which we know he does as he was the first person to tell Linus his channel was hacked) then he should be able to use any method for gathering information available to him. That said he shouldn't HAVE to. Him not reaching out is a choice and one that I respect and Linus shouldn't throw him under the bus for not taking advantage of his ability to reach out.

[EmilyShabang]

I'm guessing this is why there's no LTT videos today

[ZombieMan762]

13 minutes ago, AliJDB said:

It really seems as though you inherently misunderstand the problem. Review channels are there to tell us how something performs, which is information we use to decide if we want to part with our cash - you don't make that decision for us. You can steer us, and you can tell us you wouldn't spend your money on it - but deciding it isn't worth testing properly because YOU wouldn't spend money on it is a disservice to everyone involved.

 

If I were a company with products I'd be open to sending to reviewers I would be very leery of sending them to LMG. Who knows what they are going to do with your product. I certainly would not expect a professional review. 

 

They can trash your entire company and possibly ruin any future you have because they want to act immature and be funny for the camera.