Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Drazil100]

6 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I've previously made a post acknowledging that Steve/GN's criticism isn't without merit, I just take issue with how he's gone about it.

Given how Linus has shifted the focus of this whole discussion to how Steve chose not to reach out, I am kinda in Steve's camp. You shouldn't go after people for reporting facts. You can correct them with more accurate and up to date information, but I strongly dislike how Linus tried dismissed the video as bad journalism rather than focusing owning up to his mistakes. There was nothing wrong with Steve's video, and now half the thread is talking about how Steve should have reached out, rather than the actual controversy and how things should move forward.

If Steve never reaches out to Linus for a statement again I won't blame him after this fiasco.

[Forbidden Wafer]

1 minute ago, Namija said:

I don’t say this because of the facts presented, but they did the same thing to LMG that he was calling out LMG for doing to Billet labs, which is INCREDIBLY hypocritical.

GN didn't wrongfully test some seeded equipment, didn't misrepresent the product performance, didn't refuse to retest after discovering their data was flawed, they didn't say it wouldn't matter anyways because it was bad value (why the devil they even accepted it for reviewing?), nor sold a prototype that they were supposed to return. 

This was not a single error, and shouldn't be treated as such. This is why accidentology exists.

[Middcore]

2 minutes ago, HaughtonBothered said:

LMG was already aware of every issue GN brought up and were already working to correct these things before his video

 

His response says they aren't even really doing anything to correct them now.

 

 

2 minutes ago, HaughtonBothered said:

 It's just a shame to see him tearing down LMG when LMG has been trying to build others in the space up.

If anything, LMG has been talking smack about GN and Hardware Unboxed.

[charliebros]

32 minutes ago, Vanislesteve said:

I remember watching the billet labs video initially and your comments and general attitude towards the product felt harsh and dismissive.  And if I may say so a bit ironic given the money you spent making a gold controller and now more recently and $100k desk computer.  You've made plenty of videos enthusiastically portraying gear while still making it clear that there's no cost justification to the average consumer.  With a name like Billet Labs it's obvious that they're aiming for more bespoke products geared towards people who would have no problem dropping $1000 on bling.  But you portrayed the product as not only expensive but also ineffective.  To me it wasn't simply a matter of not reading the room right, you made your opinion because you didn't connect with it on an aesthetic level so you dismissed it completely.  Or at least that's how it came across to me.

I think fair compensation to Billet Labs would be to invite them on set and allow them to showcase their product the way it was intended.  And in keeping with your values, you can compare it with a table of data to the products that do offer a good cooling performance/value ratio.

My thoughts.
Thanks.

P.S.  As far as the errors go, perhaps you already have something in place or in the works, but Steve's video is basicly an instruction manual for the teqniques a quality control department can use to improve accuracy.

Your only comment and is spot on, inviting Billet Labs, apologize in video, and let them show their incredible work, would be the best way to fix this issue specifically

[Skipple]

1 minute ago, Middcore said:

If anything, LMG has been talking smack about GN and Hardware Unboxed.

Aside from one comment from one employee, what is this in reference to? 

[gunnarre]

Regarding GN contacting LMG for a journalistic "right to reply" type response, that is relevant for original reporting from sources or new allegations made by a medium, but in this case most of this was already public and acknowledged errors by LMG. I do not belive journalistic fairness standards would require a right to respond here, as if new issues were raised. This being a YouTube video means that LMG can just simply comment on the video or respond in video form.

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'm not a legal professional or expert at all, though the video may be enough for LMG to sue GN for going after their brand if the CEO wanted to.

No, the video was all fact based opinions and seemed well researched. You can't win a lawsuit against someone for stating the truth, at least in the US. Maybe you can in Canada.

[PcBeExpensive]

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

I agree with most other people, first how the fuck did a prototype from a company that the company ASKED to get back and your people said you WOULD give it back end up being auctioned of? Answer it. Also own up when you fuck up. If you keep these bad ethics up the downfall of LMG will eventually come.

[The Spectre Report]

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

To begin with, I find this reply to the entire thing being buried on your forums to be a good indication of knowing you had your hand caught in the cookie jar.  But I'll address your points one by one.

To begin with, Steve didn't say anything even after a member of LMG accused Gamers Nexus /specifically/ of at best being lax in their testing process, and at worst being unethical and/or lazy in their testing practices.  There is nothing more insulting to a content creator who focuses on reviews and "journalism" than to be called unethical, and your employee managed to do that knowing he was being recorded.  It was only after you tried to not name Steve and Gamers Nexus while saying, "You guys should be happy you were even mentioned" in a passive-aggressive attempt at being pompous that Steve comes out and goes, "Okay, we'll play your game."

 

Second, to say "we auctioned this prototype at auction for charity" instead of "sold" it is, at best, semantics.  You didn't have permission to sell or auction it at all.  In fact, evidence exists that shows your company said you would return it to Billet Labs, and then you "auctioned" it.  That isn't a "miscommunication".  It is clear you understood they wanted /their/ property back, and you decided "herpa derp possession is nine-tenths of the law gg no re" and got rid of it.  Have you confirmed who "won" it?  Was it a possible competitor for the small startup that /you/ screwed over with this decision?  Has their intellectual property--which you stole with this move--been compensated in any way, or assured that it was not "auctioned" to a competitor of theirs?  There doesn't seem to be a single answer to any of these questions at all.  I would not hesitate to say you engaged in fraud, theft, and sold stolen property.  That you would do this to a small company makes me question why you did it to begin with: is it because you think they don't have the money to actually bring you to court over it?

 

Next: your team has made it clear--even publicly--that the content you put out is rushed because of the scheduling.  That is something that you, as the leader, decided on.  You even laugh and joke that yeah, it is a bit too fast, but who cares?  You just read the stuff on the paper put in front of you.  So to say that it's growing pains when in reality it's a lack of actually "taking care of the troops" shows a lack of connection with the people who work under you, which shows how good of a boss you are--at least to people on the outside.  You may be a terrific boss otherwise, but if this is a complaint and you're just brushing it aside so lackadaisically, there's questions that come up.

 

The Billet Labs review: you admit it wasn't tested properly.  Billet Labs even told you why you got the readings you did.  And instead of doing it over--which an ethical "reviewer" would do--you just left it up and damaged the reputation of a small startup.  And then you compounded it b y selling their prototype.  Were I looking at this a bit more cynically, I might think that you did it specifically to "warn" other small companies against calling you and your company out publicly, lest you "auction" their property regardless of their wishes at best.  So you doubly--triply--screwed the company.  Now this calls into question every review, though, as you admit you messed up on something as basic as reading the darn compatibility sheet.  Given the price, I would definitely look at that before purchasing it so I didn't have your results as an end user and not a reviewer myself.

 

You didn't "read the room wrong", you simply didn't want to pay for proper testing.  You took the easy way out.

 

I think that really hits all of your response succinctly.  I don't see this as Steve trying to gain clout off of the issue at hand.  I think he sees/saw you as a firend, hence why he was quick to let you know your freaking channels had been hacked.  Criticism is good.  How you have responded--a pompous, arrogant response through-and-through--speaks volumes.

[Drazil100]

10 minutes ago, charliebros said:

I would go so far to say this was the friendliest way to approach this, is great to have friends that tells you "Everything is going swell, maybe juuust do this and that, but otherwise great", but your best friend will undoubtedly go ahead and slap your face and say "this shit is completely wrong", something that in a recent LMG Clip was mentioned, where Linus was asked about what was the favorite thing about Luke on WAN Show

While I agree, a friend will also hear you out AND THEN tell you that you are completely wrong rather than just going public on the open internet with how wrong you are.

[HaughtonBothered]

Hardware unboxed taking shots at LMG under his videos

 

[jimmy3189]

Appreciate Linus addressing this, a WAN show segment addressing this is probably a bad idea because we love Linus for his hot takes and right now a hot take is not what's need to calm the situation, continued (he's stated its already happening and will continue to happen) evaluation of their QC and processes on videos needs to happen. 

Ideally I think that mouse video needs to come down. It's bad product design to have see through tabs on feet, it's worse to not notice them and then angrily shout from the rooftops that the mouse shouldn't be bought cause its a bad mouse, it's clearly a fine mouse with some bad 1cent stickers.

 

the billet prototype is the mother of all fuckups, linus's response to adam's insistence that its a supercar and people wanna see it rip is spot on, I'm glad he see's it now, the only reason to test such a niche thing on such a large audience is because people would wanna see it work properly, linus was in secret shopper mode when he should have been in pink lambo/electric porsche mode. It happens, very unfortunate it happened to be the exact same product with the return/auction fuck up.

Still love LTT, still love the concept of labs, still love steve and GN.

 

long live the community and open debate however gut punching the trolls like to be.

[charliebros]

1 minute ago, Drazil100 said:

While I agree, a friend will also hear you out AND THEN tell you that you are completely wrong rather than just going public on the open internet with how wrong you are.

Man... in that case I have shitty friends then

[Ethrillo]

I find Linus answer to be piss poor. Its meaningless corporate speak. The entire thing is an attempt to deny responsibility and justify actions that have been CLEARLY wrong. The billet review should have never made it out and none of your excuses make it better. My takeaway is that Linus didnt learn anything from this and will keep doing what he does.

[NickWreck]

2 hours ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

 

 

I would imagine it's actually more than 500 USD, having an actual person with some training and a college/university degree work in a building tends to cost around $90-100 an hour. So you need someone doing the work, someone on the camera, someone doing sound, and preferably some sort of director present, so the shoot alone would probably end up costing around $2000, if you then need to manufacture a new mounting bracket, etc. you could easily lose an entire day and now you're looking at somewhere around $4000 to $5000.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the recent increase in error rate is caused by the large volume intake of new employees.

I promise you..there is absolutely 0 chance in hell Linus is paying ANYONE 90-100 dollars an hour in that entire building. 
 

Also. Regarding new employees, how many excuses are you going to make for LTT? Errors are made because they are constantly, constantly, rushing. LMG sucks. I enjoyed their content so much more when it was him and Luke in his parents kitchen. I’m going to be unsubbing from LTT. I’ve been watching those guys for a decade. The main characters I like aren’t often featured in videos anymore. The jank isn’t as janky and reviews just feel off. I’ll be getting my data and general industry news and going ons from GN and the rest of the “fun” stuff from Jay. 
 

I want to see LTT recover. If Linus doesn’t mention this publicly (this forum that I just visited for the first time ever to find his response doesn’t count) on WAN show OR make a dedicated video I will have lost all faith. We need to see the real Linus on camera. Not this carefully drafted PR response. 

[terozzz]

I just had to come here. I am an journalist, well ex one. 

The thing is as Linus CLAIMS he is part of the press and produces ACCURATE content but at the same time is just LAZY to fact check his work before putting content out.

FIRST RULE of journalism is what? BE TRUTHFUL, NEVER EVER mislead with stories.

But what he does? 

Im out of words.

Just look at the Billet Labs incident. How he have nerv to do that to small company? 

What the actual F@CK Linus?

YOU needed to basically put those guys out of bussines cos YOU are lazy to put in time and effort to make the test PROPERLY as the gave instructions to you!!???

Really?

You need to shut down linus corporation and dig deep, start to take responsibility of YOUR actions. 

Be REAL journalist and not some corporation azz kisser with fake reviews and claims. 

You are disgrace to the whole journalism industry.

Shame on you.

 

You are NOT part of the press.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave4u]

2 hours ago, Tau_1s said:

hopefully LMG goes bankrupt

So loads of genuine people lose their jobs and potentially suffer hardship? Right!? 

[IndustrialBananaBread]

Jay puts his two cents in under GamerNexus' video.

[Skipple]

4 minutes ago, HaughtonBothered said:

Hardware unboxed taking shots at LMG under his videos

 

Immature and unprofessional.

[Lebon14]

2 hours ago, Error 52 said:

It is generally considered good practice in journalistic circles to contact someone before you run a story on them.

Just to add on this, this is why you see journalist on TV say "we tried to reach (person) for comments but we haven't heard back so far." or, if they did, they'll tell you what they said or show a clip of a filmed interview on the matter. So, yes, it is good practice.

[VoidX]

Both channels strive for accuracy and risk their relationships for a correct review, this is one of the rarest and most important traits in the landscape. I can stand behind both of them.

 

If you run a small company with only a few of you, then GN's way is perfectly viable: quality over everything else, and you only buy new toys when there's money for it. It's stable, but there's no way to do everything you want to do. Not even remotely close.

 

LMG is one of the largest YT operations by a long shot, and he has to provide to all these people. Allocating more time for videos is a double loss in this case: you have to pay more for it, so you will have less views, less revenue from said views, sponsors, reach... This loss of income can and do hurt jobs. Just look at what happens at similarly sized companies when a minor project is canceled. Entire groups are fired. This company is not large enough that the CEO can take a smaller loss from his salary to keep said employees on the long term. That feature comes at 1000 people which is not yet possible in this landscape.

 

You have to understand both sides. These creators act from the kindness of their hearts and not from greed. This is just an expected side effect of running a factory. Manufactories have way lower scrap rates than factories. Yes, it's true that the QMS is just better at GN, but Linus has a way wider portfolio. You just can't have the best of both worlds, that doesn't work. I won't believe that major changes will happen. Yes, the lab will do more comparable results, and the employees will be trained for more appropriate communications, but that's all they can do. And because we need both a quality and a quantity channel, it's good this way. Keep up with the good work, both of you!

[K4shira]

All the people trashing GN for not asking Linus for comment... have you watched the video? Linus's comments are in the video. You can hear Linus say himself that he doesn't want to spend a few hundred $ to properly test a product they reviewed.

 

Do you really want GN to ask Linus for a comment on Linus's comment? That seems redundant.

 

Linus has made statements on the WAN show about these issues, and GN is now publishing a piece on Linus's public statement and published videos. You do not need to ask for comment for a story about public statements that were made.

 

IPSO says:

Quote

"If the article is reporting on factual information that is already in the public domain, such as a recent court case or comments made publicly on social media, not contacting someone before the article is published is highly unlikely to be a breach of our rules."

 

But I agree it would've been better had they given Linus the opportunity to respond, but I don't think it is a big issue or takes anything away from the underlying problems outlined.

 

And as a side note, did LMG ask Pwnge for comment regarding the mouse before releasing the review/unboxing video? Did they ask Billet labs for comment before releasing the sloppy review? Not saying two wrongs make a right, but if anyone should be accused of not adhering to journalistic standards it's LTT...

[Namija]

9 minutes ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

GN didn't wrongfully test some seeded equipment, didn't misrepresent the product performance, didn't refuse to retest after discovering their data was flawed, they didn't say it wouldn't matter anyways because it was bad value (why the devil they even accepted it for reviewing?), nor sold a prototype that they were supposed to return. 

This was not a single error, and shouldn't be treated as such. This is why accidentology exists.

I agree, people should be called out when they screw up this bad. BUT GN just did something they tried to call linus on, which is what I find…. Interesting. 

[Leksi T]

1 hour ago, LinusTech said:

We talk constantly about how we intend to move forward and make better content. It's just taking longer than any of us would like. If everything had gone according to plan, we'd have our camera range, theater room, and acoustic chamber done like 6 months ago. Instead our warehouse is torn apart right now because they had to reinforce our roof in order to support the heat pumps that we've been trying to get procured since last summer.

The real world is messy, and the more cooks you have in the kitchen, the more room there is for error.

 

With that said, if all you want is a non-ambiguous statement that we're going to keep trying to get better, then here it is. We're going to keep trying to get better. Gary did a wonderful 'state-of-the-union' update for the company this morning about recent milestones and what we have in store. Those investments will keep flowing, and I promise that they will be a win for consumers and the tech industry.

For now, it's hard to do because I'm frustrated by the timelines too, but all I can do is say, "Stay tuned. it's upward from here and we're really excited."

I almost never visit the forums, but today's a special case.  And sorry, but I got a bit of run-up before my point.

 

My personal feelings on this (Can take this as venting, may want to skip):

 

While I feel GN's video is overly aggressive, possibly over-exaggerating, and using wording that feels less like a rebuke and more of an attack, that is their style when they feel there is something serious that needs to get done.  As a long term watcher of both channels, I can understand why GN took this particular approach. But I can understand Linus' points about direct communication as well. And while I agree with much that Steve has said, I don't agree with all of it. As far as on the LMG side, I am  feeling like fears I have about LMG's size and momentum causing significant problems are being validated, and I actually really hate that.

 

My take on the state of things (Just stating my viewpoint, so I can be corrected if needed):

 

LMG, usually Linus specifically, has made very large claims, and is trying to do some very large things to support them. GN has taken on themselves the role of watchdog for tech media, and is making noise befitting that role. (Whether too much or not that is up for interpretation from LMG, the community, and even GN themselves) It seems that LMG is starting to fall significantly short of what they have claimed, probably what they've promised. (Is there a difference?) And now GN has brought that to light. I don't believe the word unqualified should be used to refer to LMG, but I do agree that the problems are big enough that GN's choice to bring community pressure is justified.

 

What I want (Maybe what a few people want):

 

I doubt there hasn't been communication behind the scenes already on this, but yeah, that needs to happen between LMG and GN.  Though I know LMG is in the middle of reorganizing it's C-level, I imagine this is relevant to both the Vision and executive direction of LMG.  And that is a big thing, so while I am expecting LMG to put together a proper response, they are a bit bigger now, so maybe a bit of time for them to actually put together a plan, and then a response is more than reasonable.  As far as what I want for a response, it's well established that LMG is always pushing to improve on all fronts, but if they can share what they can about details of such plans, specifically addressing points brought up in the GN video, it would be more than just appreciated. And like, a video on it. A message that can't be missed, as well as that's possible considering how the platforms work.  Heck, if possible, work with GN to figure out where the line is to actually include in such a video some of the corrections that could use addressing directly. And GN prides itself on working with others to solve issues, so now that they've brought the shitstorm, I would like to see a significant effort on their part to assist, if LMG can manage to shift itself in a better direction. I doubt that real change will be quick in this case, so such collaboration prolly will take time as well.

 

I don't need LMG/Linus to reply to this. It's a very long ranty post all based on my opinion. But I've said alot here, and at least for the next while I'll be around as I can, if anyone has anything to say about it.

 

EDIT: Bolded headings, so easier to skip sections.

[SOCOM_HERO]

1 minute ago, Skipple said:

Immature and unprofessional.

I don't watch their content based on the channel name alone lol.

[Eleude]

Did GN approach the issue in a way that could have been more journalistic (talking with you first)? Yes, you're correct. But why didn't you address your employee's behavior when he criticized GN and Hardware Unboxed in reviews, even though he was making false statements?
 

To me, the whole thing was sparked by that "unlike Hardware Unboxed and GM, we do better" statement. And it escalated when you discussed it on the podcast with that "some people" approach (which, by the way, was very unjournalistic). They have different approaches from yours, and I enjoyed it when you guys collaborated. However, if you're willing to allow an employee to jab them in your videos, your statement about maintaining "personal relations" doesn't make any sense at all.
 

This whole thing was unnecessary drama started by that video, and obviously, they couldn't just "be the bigger person" and not comment on it. Of course, they could have approached you personally and said, "Hey bro, what's wrong?" But sadly, pointing out a flaw in their main content about testing was a bit too much, so they needed to defend their business too. I hope the three of you do a big collaboration on this and continue to improve after this.

This situation won't affect my view of LTT, GN, or HU. I always pay attention to the numbers and understand some mistakes. The work you guys do for the community is incredibly good and this small thing doesn't affect my "affection" for the brand. Regarding the Billet Labs matter, we all understand it, some ppl just like to fire the drama (i loved the memes, sorry). Your approach was different from what GN would do, and this is why I watch both channels. Of course, he used this against you—why not? Just let it go as you said.