Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[LinusAuctionTips]

Just now, mikaelus said:

What obvious bias was there? That Jake said good things about the company while unboxing their GPUs? I mean, brands have a brand for a good reason and ASUS is, generally speaking, a reputable one. 

 

There's a reason GN is not LTT, and it's rubbish like this, that doesn't add anything but drags Steve's videos into eternity.

Its good that GN isn't LTT. It means that at least one tech outlet still has morals.

[miagisan]

Just now, andreimj said:

based on what.... Where is the truth in this? Truthfully....pathetic

Linus said it in one of his videos.   You calling Linus a liar then?

[nightryder21]

6 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

you are assuming everyone involved in the process knew what it was, its importance, and lmg's agreement with billet labs. again, incompetence isn't great either, but claiming malice when there's more reasonable explanations is disingenuous

Nobody was calling malicious. They calling incompetence to the scale that bring down a small company. Wherever the incompetence lies it's needs to be fixed. Linus not apologizing and then not saying that it will be fixed or how it will be fixed if ridiculous.

[mikaelus]

Just now, miagisan said:

Is GN a direct investor in a company that has competition with other companies he is reviewing? 

Does LTT not disclose it under any video involving Linus and laptops? And is there any EVIDENCE that Linus has given bad reviews of products of other companies because of that? Last I remember Steve kept talking about coolers and GPUs but presented zero proof of bias in laptop testing, that would somehow even suggest unfair practices vs. Framework's competitors.

 

It was a full on smear, which is a shame because as long as he stuck to evidence he was doing pretty well in that video.

[hassam222]

Just now, Erioch said:

I'm sure that company is counting its lucky stars that it wasn't accepted.

Ehh who knows. Anyone who has 100 mil to spend on a youtube channel is probably shady to begin with

[Nyotengu]

1 minute ago, andreimj said:

All you people are cherry picking. You consistently ignore facts so you could never have the full picture of the matter. It's my fault for bringing logic into this shitshow. I hope you're proud of yourself

 

Well, since you evidently have info no one else has why don’t you share with us these facts, this logic and the full picture you mention?

[DeatheTech]

4 minutes ago, e22big said:

He didn't try to sell you his desk or his pool cooling system though.

 

Billet planned to sell you their product. And obviously, that price is a major consideration in that factor. A waterblock that cost 800, fit only on just that one GPU, and require a process so complex that it even an entire team of system integrators and engineers manage to mess up after spending days working on - isn't objectively a good product, at the very least. 

 

Should it be giving a fair chance? Yes, that I am completely agree with. But I do get Linus PoV why this might not have worth anyone time.

Y'all are acting like Billet Labs didn't send instructions and that Linus walked into that video completely in the dark... the communication seems to indicate they not only sent instructions on how to use the block properly, but they sent a 3090Ti to use with it... like come on, anyone with half a brain that is a cooling enthusiast knows you shouldn't and sometimes physically cannot shove an incompatible waterblock on a product without the proper mounting. 

 

People keep bringing up the cost of the block being egregious but it's really not that insane to enthusiasts. Do people forget about the $1200 ASRock Aqua boards or MSI Godlike motherboards that 99% of consumers don't need and shouldn't buy that get coverage by LMG? 

 

I don't need Linus telling me "it's a waste of money" - I can make that decision on my own, I just want to see him give new products a fair shake with some performance results though it seems at this point I shouldn't trust anything their lab puts out when they can't get simple data points correct from a product sheet for a video.

[jubjub]

At the end of the day it's the end of the day.

 

Happy 200th page everyone!

[nightryder21]

Just now, mikaelus said:

Does LTT not disclose it under any video involving Linus and laptops? And is there any EVIDENCE that Linus has given bad reviews of products of other companies because of that? Last I remember Steve kept talking about coolers and GPUs but presented zero proof of bias in laptop testing, that would somehow even suggest unfair practices vs. Framework's competitors.

 

It was a full on smear, which is a shame because as long as he stuck to evidence he was doing pretty well in that video.

Guess you didn't watch the GN video.

[Nyotengu]

We made it to 200 lads. That WAN show that’s not going to happen is totally not happening (wink, wink) now!

[Erioch]

Just now, jubjub said:

At the end of the day it's the end of the day.

 

Happy 200th page everyone!

Witnessed!

[AlTech]

13 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

Only he didn't. First of all, LTT and Linus himself have always fully acknowledged his investment in Framework.

Not to the satisfaction of GN which is Steve's point. Other reviewers can't trust LMG to be honest in laptop reviews because Linus invested in Framework. This hasn't caused LMG to prevent Linus from evaluating laptops from Framework's competitors on camera for LMG channels.

13 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

And the idea that LMG is in bed with ASUS for some reason is completely unsubstantiated.

LMG gave Asus an easy ride on the Asus motherboard fiasco with AMD CPUs and LMG gave Asus the kind of blanket endorsement that never comes free.

13 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

On the basis of Steve's line of thinking nobody who took any sponsorship from any tech company should review its products or is in a potential "conflict of interest" with it.

They ideally shouldn't but the reality of YTers funding their reviews means they need sources of revenue and they try hard to prevent it from biasing their reviews. It's also why many reviewers have a policy of not reviewing products that they've been sponsored by before or products that they had a hand in making.

13 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

It's ridiculous. This is where he broke his own rules about focusing on facts and evidence. 

It's the appearance of a conflict of interest. HUB and GN have both said, LMG can't be trusted on laptop reviews because of this appearance of a conflict of interest.

13 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

You do realize it's possible for people to be right about something and wrong about something else, right?

I'm not sure how this relates to anything GN has said or I have said.

 

The appearance of a conflict of interest is just as bad as an actual conflict of interest. LMG has major conflicts of interest that they've done nothinnf about and GN took then to task for it when other smaller channels were too afraid to say it to LMG.

[miagisan]

Just now, mikaelus said:

Does LTT not disclose it under any video involving Linus and laptops? And is there any EVIDENCE that Linus has given bad reviews of products of other companies because of that? Last I remember Steve kept talking about coolers and GPUs but presented zero proof of bias in laptop testing, that would somehow even suggest unfair practices vs. Framework's competitors.

 

It was a full on smear, which is a shame because as long as he stuck to evidence he was doing pretty well in that video.

Linus is also building a multi million dollar lab to be accurate as possible.  Meanwhile his videos are riddled with errors and issues.   You ok with that? The Billet labs was a tremendously bad move on their part, and how they handled it.   But if you are investing in a multi million dollar "lab", you have to get the basics right.  

[throwawayManMode]

Good thing LMG isn't a public company with a stock price... the wallstreetbets bros would be having a field day

[Taf the Ghost]

I don't really have much of anything else to add to this topic, but, yeah, 200 pages. It's quite clear the response to the initial video didn't go well.

[9eorge380]

6 minutes ago, nightryder21 said:

I guess you missed all the info GN pointed out about Asus and it's obvious bias.

 I think the best argument against this is if Linus truely was biased and wanted to sweep asus' issues under the rug he could have just... not included them in the secret shoper video, he has tons of sponsors and could have chosen litterally any other one

[tinverse]

Pretty crazy to see this mess. My initial thoughts were, "Yeah, I thought some of those numbers were weird in the benchmarks." Specifically where the 4090 had an insane performance jump or the 3090Ti had performed closer to the 4090 than I was expecting in some benchmarks.

 

I was hoping Linus would just own it and put the breaks on production to figure out the quality issues. Even the Billet Labs stuff I thought was horrible, but I figured Linus would make it right. Seeing Linus' response and then the GN response I have to say I am disappointed.

Edited August 16, 2023 by tinverse
Grammar mistake, contents otherwise unchanged.

[Rishi556]

Just now, Taf the Ghost said:

I don't really have much of anything else to add to this topic, but, yeah, 200 pages. It's quite clear the response to the initial video didn't go well.

And growing. I gave up on keeping up with this thread, just gonna hope someone makes a summary video.

[Amaninacity]

People keep bringing up that they sent a 3090… but… who cares? Obvs you can’t let the manufacturer of the cooler supply the gpu. They definitely should have used a 3090, and/or postponed the shoot until they could.  It the sending of the 3090 is basically the same as sending instructions to use a 3090.

[mikaelus]

1 minute ago, LinusAuctionTips said:

Its good that GN isn't LTT. It means that at least one tech outlet still has morals.

As if Steve doesn't have his own biases. Here's a top tip: don't worship Youtubers. These are just some blokes with cameras, telling you WHAT THEY THINK not WHAT YOU SHOULD THINK. I'm under impression that many people fail to understand this.

 

And I can't stand Linus for many reasons, but Steve bores me to death most of the time. And his subjective views are often poorly substantiated anyway - like his interjection about a "$600 budget card", which he clearly believes should not be considered "budget" - in complete and utter ignorance of the global economic situation as well as the challenges IT companies are facing.

 

So, yeah, I don't like him much either. In fact, I don't think I respect any tech reviewer at all. I watch some of them for entertainment, that's all.

[qQDY]

This issue will surely cost Linus more than 100, 200, 300, or 500 dollars PER VIDEO due to self inflicted damage to reputation. And Linus showing true narcissistic color will surely get in the way of repairing relations (+ the fact that this is costing him money now) not just with GN or HU but with the rest of tech media and related spaces.

 

I used to binge watch techquickie when I was younger, feels like it had more quality then than today's all improvised videos. I now think twice on wasting my time watching LMG videos. My kids love their videos tho

[RotoCoreOne]

10 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

Only he didn't. First of all, LTT and Linus himself have always fully acknowledged his investment in Framework. And the idea that LMG is in bed with ASUS for some reason is completely unsubstantiated. On the basis of Steve's line of thinking nobody who took any sponsorship from any tech company should review its products or is in a potential "conflict of interest" with it.

 

It's ridiculous. This is where he broke his own rules about focusing on facts and evidence. 

 

You do realize it's possible for people to be right about something and wrong about something else, right?

Idk man, Asus was one of the major sponsors for LTX to which Linus admits always loses money. And as his opinion on retesting billets cooler has shown, he's priotizing costs over other things like accuracy

[tinverse]

1 minute ago, throwawayManMode said:

Good thing LMG isn't a public company with a stock price... the wallstreetbets bros would be having a field day

What's that, time to buy Kangaroo futures? All in with my life savings. YOLO

[Sdogga]

3 minutes ago, Harry009 said:

"Trust me Bro"
Sorry Linus, not anymore, not at this point.
@LinusTech How you respond to this, maybe on the WAN show, will decide how many viewers you keep or sacrifice to your hasty and poor response in this thread.
All my planned merch purchases (stubby screwdriver, backpack, new water bottle lid) are on hold till you respond properly to this topic.

I have supported you since you were filming in the garage, I watched you grow to be a powerhouse on YT. But I believe you have rushed the expansion of LMG at the cost of quality in the last couple of years, slow down, and get things right. You said you wouldn't watch what your employees had to say on those videos recently, I hope you got an anonymous breakdown of the things discussed. Because there were a lot of people unhappy with the speed of video production and this is what is causing the errors, they all see it, yet nothing is changing the best we can see.

People keep saying "People make mistakes" Yes they do, but in many other industries mistakes can be deadly, as such there are more checks and balances put in place. Yes, it slows down the process, But If your mistakes are going to cost people their jobs due to ruining a business's reputation, be it your own or someone like BilletLabs, you may cost them more than their job...

I'm not going to commit to canceling all my subscriptions to your content, but I may "privateer" a lot more of it in the future as I don't want to pay you for inaccurate content.

I think I morally have to agree with this, at least to a point. I'm not sure what yet to think, but I do know that the sheer amount of fault here indicates a clear losing of direction, and I don't want to support that until I know the company is back on the path that I do believe they want to be on, and set out for themselves.

 

It's okay, everyone loses their direction, and I'm not out here suddenly labelling LTT as money grubbers or morons or X or Y or Z--- I do still have faith in the team, but the team need to take this time to reevaluate, redirect, and restart. They still make good content, good merch, and good decisions - they can continue to do so, and when I see it, I will return to buy those good products and watch those good videos. They do deserve the chance to make things right.

 

However. They must make things right. Less blame, less focus on singular points, and less one-man-at-the-helm. This is now a core LTT issue, which while yes ultimately falls to Linus (and to a lesser extent, Tarran) to spearhead, must be reflected in the entire body, not just the head. It looks like they're pausing video publishing for this, and I hope that's the case. The next public release should be an honest admission of fault, a clear and promise-based public plan of action, and pledges where needed to make right (such as agreeing to buy the prototype back from the auction winner, plus matching that amount for the original charity, and returning it to Billet at no cost.) Linus can front this, and I hope he does, although I hope he is not alone in this.

 

I think they'll do the above; I do trust that Linus, once he's out of his emotions, handles things the right way. Unfortunately, as we can see with how he sometimes talks on the WAN show (and he'll admit himself), his first response isn't always the best. I know his team are great, and I do believe the company is good through and through, in so far as we can see as their audience. If they don't... Well, it will sure put a sour taste in my mouth when I pack my Backpack, and put on my WAN hoodie, unfortunately, and I will definitely not return to the (rather sizeable) list of items I want to buy from the store.

 

Vote with your morals, but more importantly, your wallet, right?

 

LTT have done enough to warrant some faith that they will make this right. But they need to make good on that faith.

[ANIMAL_ORIGIN]

3 minutes ago, Erioch said:

Witnessed!

WITNESS ME!!!!